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Debating the switch to Pro Tools...

Hi all. Well, I've been dabbling in trance production for over 5 years, but after recently aquiring a nice hardware synth (an original first run Roland Juno), and pro tools LE w/ the mbox, I've been debating making the switch from FLS/Reason to Pro Tools.

I am really familiar with the Pro Tools interface, as I've used it for rock production for my band now for years, to make professional, release grade material. I'm just unsure about its abilities for trance?

Any recommendations? Is it a good enough program to suit all my needs?

Cheers!

ive never used pro tools for music production but i use it for radio production and am very familiar with it..i cant see myself enjoyin using it for music production...i think it has fallen behind..i use cubase and i find it is much more interesting to look at, i prefer the feel of it..i think the only thing that really seperates sequencers is the plug ins it comes with and i dont even use the ones that come with any sequencer...i wouldnt go spending loads on pro tools if you can use cubase...thats my advice anyway...maybe im wrong

I don't really understand your reasoning though - are you basing it on what you like looking at? I have pro tools LE already... I'm just trying to figure this out before I commit to a software suite, and fully dive into this.

i was thinking abouy switching from cubase sx to pro tools a few months back as i know a few guys that make minimal with it. although i dont think its geared for music production, well thats the advice i got from here a few months back. i dont know any trance artists that use it either.

Re: Debating the switch to Pro Tools...

quote:

Originally posted by Elendil I am really familiar with the Pro Tools interface, as I've used it for rock production for my band now for years, to make professional, release grade material. I'm just unsure about its abilities for trance? Any recommendations? Is it a good enough program to suit all my needs?

so you're familiar with PT, yet, you are asking others if it's going to suuit your needs? if you've already made "prfessional, release grade matieral", then shouldnt you know the program pretty well??

and, who the hell knows your needs except for you...i bet you'd find the answer if you tried making a trance track with PT.

Logic wanks all over protools
Overhyped and overpriced in my experience- can't stand it. I actively avoid it

yep pro tools had its day in my opinion...the look of it is out dated..i dont really know what im tryin to say by sayin cubase looks nicer..it jus gives it a nicer feel and is more appealing..pro tools looks bare and it looks like an application youd use for business purposes...music creation is enjoyable so a nicer interface makes it more enjoyable......i cant explain it to b honest i just dont like lookin at pro tools

from what i understand..PT is only good when you get into the higher end setups...otherwise, using a low end version of PT is just like any other daw.

bedroom producers are not the target market for PT it seems..

ProTools is great as an audio recording tool and an audio editing tool. The sequencer is quite undesireale compared to other platforms. I've found for myself, and for the other engineers that I know use PT, is to use a sequencer like Reason or Cubase or something and then dump your audio into PT and edit.

If you already know protools really well, then I would use it to continue editing because it's great for that purpose

quote:

Originally posted by eee.ddd.y yep pro tools had its day in my opinion...the look of it is out dated..i dont really know what im tryin to say by sayin cubase looks nicer..it jus gives it a nicer feel and is more appealing..pro tools looks bare and it looks like an application youd use for business purposes...music creation is enjoyable so a nicer interface makes it more enjoyable......i cant explain it to b honest i just dont like lookin at pro tools

LOL

the entire professional audio industry uses ProTools. For you to say it "looks" out of date shows that you're shopping for looks. Every major feature film and every major music record released is mixed and edited through protools.

It IS the audio recording and editing software standard.

Re: Re: Debating the switch to Pro Tools...

quote:

Originally posted by ASFSE so you're familiar with PT, yet, you are asking others if it's going to suuit your needs? if you've already made "prfessional, release grade matieral", then shouldnt you know the program pretty well?? and, who the hell knows your needs except for you...i bet you'd find the answer if you tried making a trance track with PT.

Making trance, and making radio ready hard rock tracks is a VERY different situation - very different, when it comes to recording. Basically, I was asking if the limitations you run into using Pro Tools LE (Limited number of tracks) will really hinder me in Trance production, as it is far more dependant on layer effects and multi-channel effect processing, than rock is.

quote:

Originally posted by eee.ddd.y yep pro tools had its day in my opinion...the look of it is out dated..i dont really know what im tryin to say by sayin cubase looks nicer..it jus gives it a nicer feel and is more appealing..pro tools looks bare and it looks like an application youd use for business purposes...music creation is enjoyable so a nicer interface makes it more enjoyable......i cant explain it to b honest i just dont like lookin at pro tools

I agree with A1C. This is the stupidest post I've ever read on this entire forum of stupid posts.

Awesome - thanks A1C... good info there, especially on the part of reason>>>pro tools for editing.

Since I have the Mbox, Reason, and Pro Tools already, I may as well remain with the solution that has worked thus far.

Cheers mate!

quote:

Originally posted by eee.ddd.y i think the only thing that really seperates sequencers is the plug ins it comes with and i dont even use the ones that come with any sequencer...

You would if you used Logic ... they piss all over the Cubase ones! (although admittedly I haven't had the opportunity to sample Cubase 4's plug-ins yet)

cubase comes with some really really good plugins dude. I used to overlook them until I found out Manuel Schlies from vengence uses them..

quote:

Originally posted by A1C LOL the entire professional audio industry uses ProTools. For you to say it "looks" out of date shows that you're shopping for looks. Every major feature film and every major music record released is mixed and edited through protools. It IS the audio recording and editing software standard.

With all due respect that means fuck all

Technologically speaking, VHS was inferior to betamax, mp3 inferior to minidisc, and lots of other examples and look what won as an industry standard.
Just because it has been adopted as that does make it the be all and end all.

And when you are sat in front a screen dot pushing for hours on end, aesthetics may be a large factor for some?


To the OP, if you are comfortable using it then give it a shot. But it is primarily designed for straight audio editing, and not really cut out for sequencing.
Whats to stop you using both? Sequncing and arranging in Logic/protools/reason, then dumping the stems into slow tools and editing that way. Plenty of people do that.

As usual there are no rules and set way of doing things, and it is ALL subjective and down to what you feel most comfortable using and how you use it.

quote:

Originally posted by Freak Technologically speaking, VHS was inferior to betamax, mp3 inferior to minidisc, and lots of other examples and look what won as an industry standard. Just because it has been adopted as that does make it the be all and end all.

i think those are really bad examples...PT IS the industry standard for professional audio recording...

go with logic. im on cubase at the moment and will move to apple as soon as i can. it isnt just the plugins that come with the sequencer, the sound varys greatly!

logic shites on cubase for sound. pro tools isnt usually used in dance music production and is apparently not as user friendly as cubase/logic in the task.

quote:

Originally posted by ASFSE i think those are really bad examples...PT IS the industry standard for professional audio recording...

I didnt dispute that is is!
You missed my points completely.......

quote:

Originally posted by Freak I didnt dispute that is is! You missed my points completely.......

Your "points" were made earlier in the thread, in my post. And inferiority was never an issue here.. in fact, it's completely irrelevant to anything, anyone has said. If you're buying software for looks...then...

yes, just...

from my experience midi in protools sucks

industry standard is bullshit to a certain degree...the pioneer mixers are considered industry standard but ive used ecler mixers and are way more functional...i use pro tools every day and industry standard means nothing...cubase is better for production...maybe pro tools is better for putting sound to film but in my opinion, not for production....it bores me to be honest....plus the fact you need a pro tools box is completely out of date...theres no need for it

The question is: if you already have the pro tools hardware, doesn't that make it worth it to simply use the software suite?

quote:

Originally posted by meDina from my experience midi in protools sucks

Agreed, Protools midi is complete ass.
Industry standard or not. It is NOT suitable for EDM production.

Once you move out of the software world and start utilizing hardware to produce there are thing you should consider.
The quality of your signal path :
- The quality of the soundsource (synth/microphone/preamp e.c.t.)
- The quality of the convertor chip.
- The quality of the analog stage around the convertor chip
-The quality of the software that will record the data.

Let me put things in prespective looking at the plus and minuses of your move to PT.
Hopefully the information I will provide you will help you make the decision yourself.

First of the audio interfaces and convertors of degidesign are consumer grade. Black faced dats will sound better than that. There higher end are ok because they use better chips but the lower end LE stuff is consumer grade and connot compare to the quality of the convertors of interfaces such as motu, rme, and apogee because they don't use the same chips. All professional gear such as the tc finalizer, the motu and rme interfaces, the lexicon pmc reverbs, the apogge convertors utilize proffessional Asahi kasei convertor chips to handle the conversion from analog to digital.

Where pro tools shines in my opinion is in the quality of the software and the way it handles error correction. The DSP TDM version sounds better than anything else out there if the convertors and the signal path is equal. While the LE version does not sound as pristine as its bigger brother it still sounds better than other native software. The code is superior.

The problem though is that digidesign ties you up to their pain in the ass interfaces in order to use the program which is why many people don't bother going that route because for the project studio there are better options out there.
Cubase and the motu or rme soundcard will sound BETTER than the le stuff.
You could I guess get the mbox and use an external legacy apogge 48k analog to digital convertor hooked via spdif you are very serious about sounding proffessional.

On a side note there is also a cracked version around that allows LE users on a pc to use the $10000 TDM vesion with their mbox or digirack and even though that frees up the stupid, unnessesary limitations such as ''only 32 tracks'' e.c.t. (degidesign insists on to push aspiring producers to take out a loan and pay for the BIG industry standard vesrion and make them rich) I wouln't recommend it because it's ''illegal''

Now I will disagree with the other people here that say ''Pt is not good for Trance''
There is no such thing as ''good for trance'' when we are talking about recording software.
If YOU like it using it then it's good for you and it's ''good for trance''. End of discussion.


In case one:
You want a complete project studio to create and mix down your music.
You want to use software synths, hardware synths, plug-ins and maybe even external processors.You have a limited budget but you want to leave room to grow.

You need a pair of monitors, some decent production software (Reason,Fruity loops, other Plugins) slaved to some decent recording software (sonar, logic, cubase, digital perforer, nuendo e.c.t. ) and a good interface to handle the convertion from analog to digital and vise versa to use your external gear next to your virtual ones. The interface should have enough ins and outs to satisfy your needs.

In case two:
You want a preproduction setup.
You want an m-box hooked up to your stereo and maybe a small format mixer to Help you hook up more gear to the two inputs of the m-box. You are not really worried about the sound quality of the music because you will let the big boys handle this in a pro enviroment in the best pro studio down town.
All you need here is good musical ideas and you are using whatever you can to get them.
You produce there save a little bit of money to take the very best of your songs and have them mixed in a REAL studio by a REAL engineer.

The advantages of this approach are obvious:
- You know exacly what you want to do.
- You book time at a very good studio after you have your material ready.
- If you want to record any synths you put the in your car and take them with you.
- You bounce the pro-tools session with all your plugins, midi files and instruments.


-You go there to these wonderful engineers and play back the session and listen carefully for THEIR comments. Give the the freedom to ''fuc k'' with your music anyway they feel it will improve. They Know best.
- Your best tracks will be mixed in pro tools out on an SSL or neve. They will use high end tube UREI compressors, distressors, Manley limiters, State of the art external gear and plug-ins, plus a very experienced engineer that will know how to make it sound better instantly.

If your tracks are not going the where you want them to go just ask them for ''arranging ideas'': They will never tell you to fuc k off coz it's a cuthroat business. They will kiss your ass coz they need you more than you need them. Not only the sound quality of you mix will improve but the content as well.
The final song will sound 10.000 times better, bigger and fuller.

A label will look at you more seriously when the receive a demo:

Mixed at :..... studios
Producer: YOU
Project director:...
Mixing engineer: ....
Assistant engineer....
Mastered at ..... studios.
Mastering engineer ...

This is money for them and they know this! They aint going to let this pass. It sounds like money and money sounds good. You will get signed.
You will see posts here like: How to get that ''Yourproduction'' sound.
You will laugh knowing how it got there and how it will never get there in a project studio enviroment.

If you are A : Don't move to the pro tools le. There are better stuff for the project studio.
If you are B : Move to pro tools LE. You need the session compatibility.

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