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Professional.

With fields such as Graphic/Web Design, art, photography, etc. which have no set diploma/licensing requirements, anyone that can get their hands on Photoshop or a Digital SLR can consider themselves a "professional" at what they do.

What do you guys think qualifies someone as a "professional"?
Does actual education in design/photography/etc. matter? or does it just come down to the quality of the work?

And do you guys think diploma/licensing is necessary and would it help the situation?




Personally, I like the fact that anyone can get into the design and art world... it leaves it open to allowing interdisciplinary innovations due to the wider scope of perspectives involved.
However, I dislike the fact that some 'artists' and 'designers' are essentially mocking the field by doing less than mediocre work or copying typical fad styles and proclaiming themselves as professionals.

I guess you really know someone's a professional, when they don't have to say it.

if you get paid for the work you do you are considered a professional.

simple as that

Re: Professional.

quote:

Originally posted by m2j With fields such as Graphic/Web Design, art, photography, etc. which have no set diploma/licensing requirements, anyone that can get their hands on Photoshop or a Digital SLR can consider themselves a "professional" at what they do. What do you guys think qualifies someone as a "professional"? Does actual education in design/photography/etc. matter? or does it just come down to the quality of the work? And do you guys think diploma/licensing is necessary and would it help the situation? Personally, I like the fact that anyone can get into the design and art world... it leaves it open to allowing interdisciplinary innovations due to the wider scope of perspectives involved. However, I dislike the fact that some 'artists' and 'designers' are essentially mocking the field by doing less than mediocre work or copying typical fad styles and proclaiming themselves as professionals. I guess you really know someone's a professional, when they don't have to say it.

there are certain elements to becoming a profession
specific training schools, associations and licensing laws that follow legal laws, but are also self-regulated.
autonomony from other centres of power - each group regulates its own affairs, including criteria for entrance to the profession and standards of practise. this is shown in the Medical associations, the state bars, etc etc
must provide a service to the community that cannot be done elsewhere. achieved through creating monopolies over certain services, limiting access to training schools and associations
adopted code of ethics, used to eliminate internal competition and those incompetent to perform said service


i don't think media arts can be considered a profession, like law and medicine. this is because pretty much anyone can draw a picture and sell it. there is not governing body that says you cannot do that. there is, however, laws that say you cannot call yourself a lawyer and set up practise.

quote:

Originally posted by above'N'beyond if you get paid for the work you do you are considered a professional. simple as that

no.

Re: Re: Professional.

quote:

Originally posted by spitty there are certain elements to becoming a profession specific training schools, associations and licensing laws that follow legal laws, but are also self-regulated. autonomony from other centres of power - each group regulates its own affairs, including criteria for entrance to the profession and standards of practise. this is shown in the Medical associations, the state bars, etc etc must provide a service to the community that cannot be done elsewhere. achieved through creating monopolies over certain services, limiting access to training schools and associations adopted code of ethics, used to eliminate internal competition and those incompetent to perform said service

I don't understand what the point of the above text is - (a professional is simply an expert) you're taking the defination way of the context, the question is "What defines someone as a "Professional" in the Design/Art/Photography/etc. field?"

it's not complicated, it's very specific and simple, all you had to say was, education/credentials.

quote:

i don't think media arts can be considered a profession, like law and medicine. this is because pretty much anyone can draw a picture and sell it.

uhhh...forget it, someone else can deal with this one.

quote:

Originally posted by above'N'beyond if you get paid for the work you do you are considered a professional. simple as that

i'm compelled to agree with this, though only in regards to Design/Art - even then, it's not exactly how i'd word it. the getting paid is definiatly a key element, but there is something missing that goes hand-in-hand with this notion that I just can't come to right now, it's almost 7 and i'm going to sleep.

Re: Re: Re: Professional.

quote:

Originally posted by evil_cookie

read Law/Society by John Sutton or the System of Professions by Andrew Abbott, 1988.

what defines a profession is more complex than just a degree and a ph.d behind your name. a professional is not simply an expert, like you have claimed. although we throw the term around, and most people seem to think they are one in the same, the point of my post was to illustrate that they are indeed, different.

quality of your work and the amount of time/effort you put into it, cameron (stingray, who doesnt post here anymore), showed me a photo he had to submit for his assignment, and just the photoshop work he did to it was incredible, truly professional quality, took him two days to fix what some may call minor details, i'll see if i can get the photos if anyone is interested.

Interesting theory Spitty, and I'm sure there's a lot of information to back that up. It falls down completely for one profession though, and that's software engineering.

Decades have observing this have highlighted that there's more than an order-of-magnitude difference between the people who could legitimately be called professionals and the ones who just get by. By all the standard definitions, it's clearly an engineering profession; specifications, design, tool selection, risk analysis, work and cost estimation, and so on. If even the smallest mistake in the field can cause grave injury or death, it's hard to classify it as anything else.

Unfortunately, all attempts to apply the standards and rules of other engineering disciplines to it have failed miserably. (Rafts of books have been written on this, if you want me to list some of them I can). Testing is another field that's a little more obscure but has seen similar results. People would like to impose formal training and licensing and legal powers but nobody has been able to figure out how to do it without making things a whole lot worse.

Not to say that it can't be done - maybe the profession's still just too new, only time will answer that question - but I think that the licensing, the quasi-legal powers and self-regulation, strict training requirements, etc., are a logical consequence of some particular field being a "profession", not necessarily the defining characteristics of one.

Media arts, well, I'll agree with you there. There's certainly a skill level involved in art, but professional societies exist (in theory at least) for the protection of the public, and when it comes to pure art, the only consequence of failure is rejection or termination.

above'N'beyond is also right, though. One perfectly valid definition of professional is "following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain". That's probably not the definition that was used in the original post, though.

And then again, yet another definition of the word is just someone who does exemplary work. Maybe they don't even have to get paid.

quote:

Originally posted by spitty no.

yes

quote:

Originally posted by MikeyN quality of your work and the amount of time/effort you put into it, cameron (stingray, who doesnt post here anymore), showed me a photo he had to submit for his assignment, and just the photoshop work he did to it was incredible, truly professional quality, took him two days to fix what some may call minor details, i'll see if i can get the photos if anyone is interested.

Why did stingray stop posting here??

<--------- Professional

It's a fine line, speaking as a professional in my field (audiovisuals, audio by trade).

Considering the scene we are in, I'm sure you've noticed a few self-professed audio professionals that have no idea what is going on. Systems that crash, power draw that exceeds supply, incorrect impedance matching, poor gain structure, improper equipment placement, exceeding safe and legal limits on percieved volume.

I worked my ass of to get my diploma, I worked my ass off for years to get ahead and learn as much as I can about my trade (up to 108 hrs/week), I've had my hands on an amazing variety of staging, sound, light, video, projection and audio and visual recording equipment and I've had to run around like a jackass in front of 2000 eyes to troubleshoot a technical challenge. I now work in sales and it is that experience that makes me the professional I am. I understand fully what is involved in making the results peple expect appear, what it will cost, what restrictions are in place and how to ensure that my technicians and technical staff operate safely, legally and correctly. There is more to being a pro than just getting paid.

In a world where any moron can go buy decks and learn to beatmatch, by a PA and make things heard or buy Flash and create content the line between the professional and the hobbyist or wannabe seems to be blurring.

It is not.

From my position I can spot an amateur audio engineer or technician from a friendly peek at his meters, from a few simple questions, from the way he runs cable and especially how he wraps them and any number of other ways. Believe me, once you have spoke to a pro, you will spot the rookies and I believe that translates to new media as well. The double edge of this sword is that where anybody could claim to know about something and get away with it because of the ignorance of the client, if you can Google it, so can your client so you better know what you're saying.

Professionalism is more than a paycheque, more than a state of mind, it is a state of being.

zzzzzzzz if you get paid you're a pro, end of story.

quote:

Originally posted by malek zzzzzzzz if you get paid you're a pro, end of story.

quote:

Originally posted by Dr. DAS

I'm a professional

quote:

Originally posted by *~LiSa-LoO~* I'm a professional

...Professional Ferry Corsten Addict.

Turning pro (long ago) was (and still is) a wonderful thing.

I'm glad that since then I've been able to keep my status by delivering the goods at all the majors (and all of the minors).

quote:

Originally posted by Dr. DAS ...Professional Ferry Corsten Addict.

Does she get paid though?

quote:

Originally posted by *~LiSa-LoO~* I'm a professional

quote:

Originally posted by EvilTree Does she get paid though?

Paid in F*ckin' beats !

quote:

Originally posted by Dr. DAS Paid in F*ckin' beats !

touche!

Alot of occupations have laws regarding who can call themselves a proffesional, in ontario at least, obviously you can to your friends and whatnot, but if you say your company or services are being offered by a proffesional (insert occupation here) you can find youself in legal problems if it is not true.

The ones i know of are (correct me if im wrong)

Lawyers - Law Society of Upper Canada

Engineering - Professional Engineers Ontario

Doctors - College of Physicians and Surgeons

However for relation to art a proffesional i find is used more as a slang term, as there is nothing regulating it, generally its a line thats passed when you either are supporting yourself with it, or have a large client base.

quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker Turning pro (long ago) was (and still is) a wonderful thing. I'm glad that since then I've been able to keep my status by delivering the goods at all the majors (and all of the minors).

What do you do RJ?

quote:

Originally posted by Import Alot of occupations have laws regarding who can call themselves a professional, in ontario at least, obviously you can to your friends and whatnot, but if you say your company or services are being offered by a professional (insert occupation here) you can find yourself in legal problems if it is not true. The ones i know of are (correct me if im wrong) Lawyers - Law Society of Upper Canada Engineering - Professional Engineers Ontario Doctors - College of Physicians and Surgeons However for relation to art a professional i find is used more as a slang term, as there is nothing regulating it, generally its a line thats passed when you either are supporting yourself with it, or have a large client base.

ministry,lawyers and doctors were the original three. (early engineering was also, but they weren't called engineers) nursing, accounting (i think), architecture, engineering


aaron. i haven't heard of the software debate. really only focused on the legal profession. its interesting though. i'll ask my prof about it. do u know any online articles?

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