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How important are soundcards REALLY?

Ok, so I have an m-audiophile 2496 or whatever, you know the common cheap one lots of people have.

I'm really confused about how soundcards work. Like, all the sound is processed through it right, so everything I hear through MY speakers, has to be someone affected by this soundcard right.

My question is, does the sound card effect my quality of recording. For instance, does that mp3 render on my desktop have an audiophile 2496 "sound" to it, or is it only when I listen to it on my computer?

Basically my question is, if I had some fancy ass sound card like a MOTU or something, does that just change the way the sound I HEAR is processed? Or does it actually change the way the sound is processed when i render down a wav file or whatever onto my hard drive?

hmmm for first you have to know the difference between output and "output" as in digital terms.
Let me explain->
you have this fancy VST playing a 4bar riff ... you render it

what happens?
The computer calculates the sound of the synth and saves it as data...

so this way if someone else listens the same loop with a better soundcard it will sound much better...because you know...the data are there...



now if you had a really expensive microphone setup to record your output (as in front of the speakers) and then made a comparison between that and for example the motu ultralite you'd notice the difference...


as long as the signal route is purely digital...the soundcard doesn't matter...
the problem lies in mixing...if you're not able to hear as much as possible you aren't able to mix correctly...


at least that's how I think it works, if someone else can correct me I'll be grateful

I recently switched from the soundcard to the ultralite, and i can say wow. Such big of a diffrence for me, crystal now. Worth everypenny. But here is what i recomend, if you can offord it go for it if you like it keep it, if you dont return it and get your money back.

As long as it has balanced IO and semi-decent AD/DA, then its irrelevant.

...the 24/96 has neither

The problem with internal cards is that they can pick up noise from inside your computer. Best to get a card which has a breakout to keep the AD/DA outside. Really, anything delta44 and upward is fine, I doubt you will notice any difference unless you're doing recording - even then I still dont think you will notice a few DB in SNR. Remember, this is dance music, people are always going to say you need a certain mic, a certain preamp, a certain DA/AD, but at the end of the day theres so much shit going on in there you're never going to hear the difference.

The point of diminishing returns is close

Hey
The sound-card only REALLY matters if you are using external instruments synths and effects.
In that case you can say that you need good convertor chips to sound professional.
If you are not using external synths and everything is in the computer it really does not matter that much.
Somebody could argue that the cleaner the sound the better you will be able to hear potential problems with your mix but since you play the music using your m-audio, then mixing on one will be best.
Also it's important to note that most of the people who will play back the music will not have anything fancy but a stereo, an mp3 player, a dj mixer or something equivalent, then what you are using is closer to what it will sound on, on most peoples playback systems.

important

So then considering you use lots of external stuff b&b, it's fair to say a soundcard is fairly important

It seems we've had quite a flood of trolls here lately.. If they're just bots then how about some kind of image verification on the registration page?

Re: How important are soundcards REALLY?

quote:

Originally posted by beats and beeps Ok, so I have an m-audiophile 2496 or whatever, you know the common cheap one lots of people have. I'm really confused about how soundcards work. Like, all the sound is processed through it right, so everything I hear through MY speakers, has to be someone affected by this soundcard right. My question is, does the sound card effect my quality of recording. For instance, does that mp3 render on my desktop have an audiophile 2496 "sound" to it, or is it only when I listen to it on my computer? Basically my question is, if I had some fancy ass sound card like a MOTU or something, does that just change the way the sound I HEAR is processed? Or does it actually change the way the sound is processed when i render down a wav file or whatever onto my hard drive?

All the sound card does is handle audio I/O "in and out" of the computer. Higher quality soundcards will be cleaner sounding and be able to work @ higher sample-rates, but you will not see a gigantic boost in sound quality. I am using my iMac's built in sound card, and I get about 10ms of latency. Seems fine to me.

it can affect recording, yes, but playback, hardly at all

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm As long as it has balanced IO and semi-decent AD/DA, then its irrelevant. ...the 24/96 has neither The problem with internal cards is that they can pick up noise from inside your computer. Best to get a card which has a breakout to keep the AD/DA outside. Really, anything delta44 and upward is fine, I doubt you will notice any difference unless you're doing recording - even then I still dont think you will notice a few DB in SNR. Remember, this is dance music, people are always going to say you need a certain mic, a certain preamp, a certain DA/AD, but at the end of the day theres so much shit going on in there you're never going to hear the difference. The point of diminishing returns is close

er...hate to point this out but the 24/96 uses the same DA chips and chip architecture as the more expensive delta series right up to the 1010. all you're paying for is balanced I/O and more I/O's.

also, balanced I/O's will not improve sound quality of the soundcard itself, only reduce interference and potential noise between devices. this can easily be avoided by not having long cable runs, keeping your audio lines away from power lines and buying decent quality unbalanced cables.

if the original question was asked with a view to find out if it worth shelling out on a new soundcard, I would say no. monitor speakers are probably have the best value in terms of upgrades and cash spent vs performance or quality increase

Its been said before but to recap.

If you work entirely within a PC then a soundcard will only affect the sound you can hear through YOUR speakers. The resulting MP3 file will not be affected by your soundcard unless you record the output of the soundcard into a standalone recorder such as a DAT tape or CD recorder.

If you record instruments then it will affect the quality of the recorded instruments.

A good soundcard will enable you to hear the music you are making with greater clarity and be able to mix and process with greater precision.

quote:

Originally posted by Mikk It seems we've had quite a flood of trolls here lately.. If they're just bots then how about some kind of image verification on the registration page?

Because swamper is lazy. Actually, to be fair. Swamper probably HAS A LIFE. And probably doesn't have time to administer TA every single time someone wants something done.

Granted, it wouldn't be that difficult to implement a captcha (word image verification). But, this version vBulletin has been working fine so he hasn�t seen the need to do any major work to it.

However, I agree with you.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN er...hate to point this out but the 24/96 uses the same DA chips and chip architecture as the more expensive delta series right up to the 1010. all you're paying for is balanced I/O and more I/O's. also, balanced I/O's will not improve sound quality of the soundcard itself, only reduce interference and potential noise between devices. this can easily be avoided by not having long cable runs, keeping your audio lines away from power lines and buying decent quality unbalanced cables. if the original question was asked with a view to find out if it worth shelling out on a new soundcard, I would say no. monitor speakers are probably have the best value in terms of upgrades and cash spent vs performance or quality increase

Delta 44 and 66 share the same AD/DA convertors, but 1010 and 24/96 are different entirely. Also, the 1010 has the AD/DA in the breakout, whereas the others are all on the PCI card (forgot about that).

Balanced cables have a higher line level too ;P
IMO its still worth getting balanced, even if people argue it's not worth it in a home setup.

I agree on the monitor thing though, definately!

Ok, so its been established that soundcards make a difference in recording, but how much of a difference? When recording an external synth, would you really be able to hear a difference between something recorded by a ...2496 and a better soundcard?

my bad. the 44 has the same AD/DA's as the 1010lt. In fact the 24/96 has better AD/DA's than either the 44 66 or 1010lt!! Time to "upgrade"

Also, Balanced lines don't necessarily have a higher level compared to unbalanced lines: it's simply that most balanced (pro) equipment operates at +4DB and unbalanced uses -10DB (consumer). But if I take an unbalanced jack leads and plug them to and from my amp and mixer, even thought it has "Balanced" I/O it does not mean my signal path is now -10DB.

With good cables, sensible management of power lines and short runs there really is no audible difference between balanced and unbalanced systems.

In fact when using really cheap balanced equipment, the crap components being used actually will introduce more noise than than it cancels especially over short distances.

Already been said, but I see no reason why a sound card is very important unless you're recording audio, ESPECIALLY given the fact that the new generation of synths are all USB anyway! Hurrah for just eliminating about 10 cables! Actually, even if you are recording audio, perhaps a crap soundcard could give u more character anyway

I'm still using an onboard sound card - the classic AC97 along with ASIO4ALL sound driver.

It works pretty well, I will upgrade soon but I am aware it wont allow me to run more VST's/effects at the same time because soft sequencers all use the CPU for this which I originally thought, so dual-core would be the way to go to improve that side of performance.

I also want to look in to using multiple PC's to run a VST each to reduce strain off the main pc running the sequencer, cant remember the name of the software to hand, but this would allow you to listen to your mix live without bouncing some things to audio - I like tweaking as much as possible live.

I do find that I cant record midi with my USB Xboard 49 accuratley as the notes are recorded delayed, I'm sure its not me hitting the keys at the wrong time because it sounds on time when you hear it live, so I'm hoping a new soundcard will reduce latency for me, thats about it.

Definatley Monitors and some nice headphones are also on the upgrade list, you can tell I'm just starting out.

actually, it should allow you to run more stuff, on account of more efficient asio drivers. ASIO4ALL just runs over the top of the MME drivers I think, so you still have ineffiency there. With a new soundcard you should be able to reduce latency. I think this is the way it works anyway...

kitphillips, you're absolutely right. onboard sound is very basic and will not allow you to have the sort of low latency figure that is required to record and playback accurately.

The asio4all is very clever in that it sits on top of the WDM drivers, and makes the soundcard usable to a point but not for anything really serious. As soon as you start using multiple VST's, FX, audio, midi tracks you will notice an massive slow down and bad latency.

DAEUS, If you're just starting out, get yourself something like a M-audio audiophile 24/96 or a delta 44 if you need more inputs.

There's not much point spending more at this time, as the difference in cost between these and even a slightly higher sound quality soundcard is a large amount of money, better spent on good studio monitors.

Once you have a decent sound card, if I were to recommend spending money on only one other piece of kit, it would have to be monitors - the extra money (often not even that much) spent on them is so much more important and well spent.

Advice noted Rann

will buying an external usb card make me run more VSTI's with ease?? i have 1.7 gigz dual core centrino, 1 gig of ram...

quote:

Originally posted by TRNG will buying an external usb card make me run more VSTI's with ease?? i have 1.7 gigz dual core centrino, 1 gig of ram...

Only slightly, a faster computer will make more difference, but a soundcard will help a little I would say. Your spec isn't bad though and remember that speed doesn't make that much difference in the quality of music you make. So yeah, you can get more power, but you'll use it up eventually anyway.

Let me just say I haven't read everyone else's response to your questions so I apologize in advance if I happen to repeat what someone else has already stated.

In MY OPINION, if all you use are virtual instruments e.g. VST, DXi, etc, then the soundcard will make absolutely no difference whatsoever. However, if you have external synths or instruments and you want to record those, the D/A and A/D conversion of a good soundcard will do better than a cheap one.

This is my understanding of it all. Someone feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken (with sources please )

Just a side note, I had a Sound Blaster Audigy 2 (internal) and recently switched to an external USB E-MU 0404 unit. I needed this to record via S/PDIF for my Virus TI. It is a GREAT unit. It also has MIDI interfaces and some analog input jacks for recording analog devices. It cost me $200 which is not bad in the grand scheme of things. Its been a dream for me.

Take care and good luck,
Adam

i have a soundblaster soundcard and its pretty top of the line yet when i connect my midi controller to it and try to run sounds off my synth and synth sounds in cubase it lags when i press the keys. i heard about latency and put my sample rate all the way down but that doesnt seem to help...any suggestions?

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