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-- Xone 3d and Ableton > everything else?
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Xone 3d and Ableton > everything else?
If all I wanted to do was mix 
)
Ableton has too much to offer as far as mixing/live production is concerned not to make use of it in that arena.
Does anyone think I'm crazy?
I love hip hop and turntablism so its not really an option for me, but what is everyone else's opinion on the state of pure mixing with the 900 lb Ableton looming in the future?
If ALL you are looking to do is mix, using Ableton is boring. It just is.
Remixing on the fly, throwing in your own loops and remixes, that's one thing. But standard DJ'ing with it is just horribly boring.
Also, the 3D has a lot of functionality if all you are looking for is a MIDI controller.
The new 2D/1D combo would make more sense.
crossfading with my cock > everything else
/thread
The Xone:3D is overrated.
The fact that it's a midiclock is cool, the jogwheels are cool, but the MIDI control aspect is teh lame.
Send me a PM sometime and tell me more about what you intend to really do and I can try to dream up an affordable set up for you, since the Xone:3D is a cash cow that is beyond unessecary, not to mention for the most part, NOT worth it.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Ryan0751 using Ableton is boring. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Ryan0751 If ALL you are looking to do is mix, using Ableton is boring. It just is. Remixing on the fly, throwing in your own loops and remixes, that's one thing. But standard DJ'ing with it is just horribly boring. |
I think vanilla mixing with Ableton is boring as crap too, but thats the very point of my post. Because its so damn easy, it lets you do other crazy stuff during your epic 20 minute trance transition.
On the other side of the coin If I see you using a laptop there better be some fireworks.
Also, it seems to me that if you're just mixing using CDJs would be a waste unless you need to put you're hands on something, as Clovis pointed out above. Maybe "waste" is too strong a word for it.
And finally....
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| Originally posted by Zild crossfading with my cock > everything else /thread |
| quote: |
| I still dont understand why we're still using CDJs. |
I've spent a lot of time thinking about this and what it all means for DJ'ing...
Ok SURE the possiblities with Ableton are endless... but what are you going to do to tracks that are already highly produced and have a lot of musical elements already in there (such as Trance, House, etc?).
You might loop an intro/outro, throw some effects in there here and there, layer in an a capella... but those are all things you can do with decks.
Even Sasha has stated that he started off doing way to much to tracks and it just ended up ruining the set. He says he now just lets the tracks (which very talented producers spent a lot of time making) speak for themselves.
Everyone on earth seems to be jumping on Jonathon Peters for his recent Ableton switch, and how he spends so much time fucking with tracks that it ends up sounding like ass.
You really have to look at YOUR skills as a producer before you take the big leap. Obviously have fun and use what you like, but MOST DJ's aren't really talented enough to pull it off. I'm sorry but that's the truth. Spend you time between tracks looking for THE NEXT TRACK. It's about the music, not the technical skills.
If you are like James Zabiella and are EXTREMELY talented, AND you play a genre like techno or minimal where you can really play around and come up with something unique, than that's great.
I think Ableton is a GREAT program. And every DJ, whether they intend to DJ with it or not, should at least have exposure as to what you can do with it. It's fantastic for re-edits and remixes, and it makes a great effects unit and a very fancy sampler when combined with a DJ setup.
What I don't like is all the bandwagon jumping. Ableton is a production tool that was adapted for DJ'ing. Why is everyone ready to "settle" with it as "the new standard"? There are clearly a lot of things that DJ's complain about when trying to use it in a live environment: Warping takes too much time (why isn't the auto-warp better on long tracks?), you can't view multiple waveforms at once, etc.
And don't forget about the controllers... they are all over the place. I don't know why people hate on the 3D. Sure it's super-expensive, but it's built like a QUALITY piece of gear. Would you want to mix on an all plastic mixer (even if it sounded good)? Why should have have to mix on a crappy MIDI controller?
It think in time someone will take the benefits of Ableton and combine them with a DJ friendly approach to come up with something that is much more useful all around. We are already seeing a multitude of applications coming around that let you do "ableton-like" things. Look at Torq for example... perfect looping, sampler, syncing (which almost works)... with multiple deck support (more than 2) you suddenly can begin to do remixing on the fly, layering, etc with a DJ friendly application.
As for CD's and why they are still popular...
Well CD's never really WERE popular in the traditional "go to the store and buy a CD with house music on it" sense. CDJ's obviously only took over with the advent of digital downloads. Why do they still work?
1. Hardware players - These are proven and very stable, and in a typical club environment you'll probably have 3 CDJ's to work with. If one dies in a set, the other 2 will likely still work. They are layed out well, and have a consistent interface, even between brands and models.
2. Ubiquitous - Digital formats are currently all over the place. USB drives, flash memory, etc. CD's are standardized. Plus the interface is consistent... everyone know's how to use and play with them. You can just walking into a club with your headphones and case of CD's and play. If you are playing after another DJ (or before), no need to setup gear and tear it down. Simple and reliable.
3. Cheap and disposable - Sure burning CD's is a pain in the ass, but at least what you are carrying around is a bunch of cheap CD's. If you lose or break one, re-burn it when you get home. If you had a hardrive with all your music on it and it crashed at a gig, you are out of luck.
So while I do think digital is the future (actually, it's the present), the hardware and interfaces haven't caught up yet to do everything in software.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Clovis It's boring if you're not putting effort into it. If you decide to go the other way (read: TRY SHIT) the possibilities are endless. I still dont understand why we're still using CDJs. IMO Ableton is the platform to use now, it offers the most creative control, it lets you play tracks the way YOU want to play them and not how they would normally dictate the mix... If only the link between ableton and a mixer/controller would be solved. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Beatflux Why would you say that? |
Glad you could share your opinion Ryan, that's a great post.
My personal take is that Ableton is amazing for compilations and really creating true works of art. Personally, I use it for my weekly radio show as well as for compilation mixes, but for live shows I use CDJ's as they're more performance oriented (imho). There's something more personal about them and its easier to transmit style through movements. The performance aspect is in the physical domain for cdj's as opposed to the digital domain on Ableton. Ofcourse style and the fun-factor are more geared toward a dj-centric view rather than just speaking "about the music" in general which is really what's all about...what comes out of the speakers.
I guess it can go either way...these are my thoughts though.
Actually I know it quite well, but thanks for playing.
Can you post a mix you did in ableton that's shows off your skill with it?
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| Originally posted by hooknife Because he does not konw how to use it. Ableton kicks ass! |
+1 to Ryan for that post.
I think that you can definitely go overboard. Thats something I hadn't considered, and what Spawn said about the performance aspect of having hand manipulated music (the main reason I bought TTs) is spot on.
Anyone else care to weigh in on why they use ableton over CDJs or vice versa?
I completely agree on the performance aspect of the CDJs. The tactile control is second to non. That's why I bought them. I was sick of computer mixing on Virtual DJ. Combine CDJ's with Serato/Torq etc and you arguably get the best of both worlds.
Ryan we pretty much agree on all points.
I just find that the only reason CDJs are more attractive are because the interface is so hands on, you can still touch your music in a sense. On ableton you cant do that, and I agree that sitting in front of a screen all night may get boring (although IMO you're doing the same on CDJs).
Like I said, the interface is the question that needs to be solved, and so far, no one has.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Ryan0751 Actually I know it quite well, but thanks for playing. Can you post a mix you did in ableton that's shows off your skill with it? |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by hooknife Mixing on Ableton is just much smoother then anyone could every be with just turntables or CD mixers. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Clovis Not always true, once again, it depends on the person behind the tool. |
Dude, I OWN ableton... I have USED it to make mixes... yeah it makes you perfect at beatmatching, but mixing is exactly the same as with decks otherwise.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by hooknife Mixing on Ableton is just much smoother then anyone could every be with just turntables or CD mixers. If you undetstood what Ableton was all about you would not feel the way you do. Quit be an elitist and evolve. |
Im not sure if Ableton will ever really take over, or if it is just a phase.
I hope many options remain open to DJs and that they all choose what they are most comfortable mixing with, it boils down to what kind of a DJ you are.
I started out with CDjs, learned the basics, and when a friend of mine introduced me to Ableton, I fell in love and just enjoy spending hours a day nerding it up, finding new tricks and new things I didn't know before, it seriously is a learning thing day in day out for me, but that's just me, I don't think anyone is ever going to be obligated to switch over to Ableton to compete. It's awesome software there's no doubt, the removal of beatmatching is great but it's one of those programs that gives back as much as you put in, if you want to simply use it to mix 2 tracks into eachother, I firmly believe you are wasting your time, I agree that watching a DJ do this ALL night would be boring, and that if the said DJ was doing the same thing with CDJs, he'd be better recieved. Ableton is about trying new things and new tricks, I disagree with that previous post that was downplaying the possibilities of Ableton, there are FAR fewer frontiers with Ableton than on CDJs, IMO, and while YES it is fundamentally a program used for PRODUCTION, the fact that the innovative types have turned it around to make it an "untapped resource" persey, in the DJ world... Is awesome!
TTs kick ass
CDJs kick ass
Ableton kicks ass
| quote: |
| Originally posted by nousplacidus I think vanilla mixing with Ableton is boring as crap too, but thats the very point of my post. Because its so damn easy, it lets you do other crazy stuff during your epic 20 minute trance transition. On the other side of the coin If I see you using a laptop there better be some fireworks. Also, it seems to me that if you're just mixing using CDJs would be a waste unless you need to put you're hands on something, as Clovis pointed out above. Maybe "waste" is too strong a word for it. And finally.... If we hung out could you teach me how to be a bad ass? |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Zild Nah I don't think so. Bad asses are born not made. |
Really gives you a feeling about just how stupid this thread is. Right?
This thread was great until someone who will not be named took it all personal and got butt hurt that someone else didn't like to use abelton as much and felt that it wasn't going to take over and be the future. The thing is that none of the three tech's TT's, CDJ's or Abelton computer software has taken over and pushed everything else out. The best is to use a combination that works for you and allows you to create music and an enviroment for those listening to music that is great for having a good time.
It doesn't matter what technology your using as long as your making good music and the crowd is digging it. If you can get a crowd dancing and having a good time isn't that what it is all about. who cares if your doing it on an 8 track if thats what it takes for you to feel comfortable.
some really good posts in here, and a couple of fucking lame ones
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