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Should clubs pay a sidewalk rental fee?

http://www.thestar.com/article/210007

quote:

Venues should pay for the public space they use to frisk patrons and pile up crowds to create buzz, councillor says May 03, 2007 04:30 AM John Spears city hall bureau Nightclubs that line customers up on the sidewalk for hours at a time should have to get city permits and pay for the use of the pavement, says Councillor Adam Vaughan. Vaughan (Ward 20, Trinity-Spadina) has asked for a report on how to require clubs to obtain permits for the long and sometimes rowdy lineups that form outside. The report should also outline "a process for polling neighbouring properties prior to permit issuance," he writes in a letter to the works committee, which agreed to get the report. In an interview, Vaughan said many bars and nightclubs deliberately create lineups on the sidewalk to make themselves look popular. The lineups also keep customers outside until they can be frisked, he said. "As a regular characteristic and practice of their business, they use public facilities for marketing, for security and for queuing people so they can maximize their interior space and up their alcohol sales," Vaughan said. "Well, I'm sorry. You can't use the public space for private gain that way without the city getting its fair share, and also regulating it so it's done in a responsible way." That means lineups shouldn't take over the entire sidewalk, forcing pedestrians into the street, he said. Nightclub lineups aren't like the temporary queues that sometimes form outside theatres, he said. Theatre lineups only last a short time and the theatres have a lobby where customers can mill around before the show or at intermission, the councillor said. "There's no intention on my part to start charging the film festival or the Royal Alex or the Tarragon Theatre." While fruit stores, restaurants and newspaper vending boxes are all charged fees if they occupy sidewalk space, nightclubs don't pay for the space their lineups occupy, he said, adding that they should pay market rent for that space. The fees should also cover the actual costs incurred by the city of providing policing and licence inspectors in the area. "These businesses have an impact beyond their four walls � a deliberate impact � and it's time we started to regulate that impact," he said. Flirt Lounge manager Reagan Sampson said Vaughan's proposal "is the city's way of getting into our pockets. "It's another way for the city to try to force us out." People can wait for up to an hour outside the Adelaide St. W. club on a busy Saturday night but usually stay on their best behaviour so they will be allowed inside, Sampson said. What's more, he said, the lineup is enclosed with a rope so pedestrians can use the sidewalk. "I don't know the city's intentions � I'm not sitting in any boardrooms � but they're making it very tough for us to do business downtown," Sampson said. Vaughan said he also plans to ask the city's licensing and standards committee to devise limits on the concentration of bars and nightclubs in areas like the Entertainment District. With files from Meghan Waters

I agree fully with this as I've had to wait in these lineups numerous times just because promoters wanted to create more hype for their shitty clubs.

All I get from this is that Adam Vaughan is a dick.

quote:

Originally posted by Time2Burn All I get from this is that Adam Vaughan is a dick.

Hah exactly what i was thinking. I agree lineups for no reason is annoying, but theyre using it for the usual war on clubs

the real question is, will jayxl pop up in here?

quote:

Originally posted by smuncky the real question is, will jayxl pop up in here?

Id hope so, i liked the bitching that got stired up, it made for more intresting reading then "OMG tiesto maybe in april?"

I wonder if politcians have to pay for campaign signs they plaster up everywhere in the city when they have to promote themselves. Adam Vaughn has declared war on clubs and will come with with any arguement to support his agenda.

Re: Should clubs pay a sidewalk rental fee?

quote:

Originally posted by Cosmic Fur http://www.thestar.com/article/210007 I agree fully with this as I've had to wait in these lineups numerous times just because promoters wanted to create more hype for their shitty clubs.

+1

If this applies to clubs, it must apply to all businesses that use public sidewalks in any form, incl. selling products and advertising.

Chinatown folks are going to be mad

quote:

Originally posted by EvilTree If this applies to clubs, it must apply to all businesses that use public sidewalks in any form, incl. selling products and advertising. Chinatown folks are going to be mad

quote:

While fruit stores, restaurants and newspaper vending boxes are all charged fees if they occupy sidewalk space, nightclubs don't pay for the space their lineups occupy, he said, adding that they should pay market rent for that space.

seems like they already do....

quote:

Originally posted by Cro_Addict seems like they already do....

Ok then. Fair is fair

quote:

Originally posted by EvilTree Ok then. Fair is fair

It sucks for the clubs. And it does seem like a cheap shot.

But, the only reason why I would agree with this, is because I hate standing in line for 30 minutes or 1 hour, and then get in and there is only like 50 ppl in the club...its soo annoying.

quote:

Originally posted by Cro_Addict It sucks for the clubs. And it does seem like a cheap shot.

How is it a cheap shot?

quote:

But, the only reason why I would agree with this, is because I hate standing in line for 30 minutes or 1 hour, and then get in and there is only like 50 ppl in the club...its soo annoying.

So you're against it because the club is inefficient?

quote:

Originally posted by EvilTree How is it a cheap shot?

It just seems the city is looking for anything to do damage to the scene. Sure it probably will not shut down the businesses, but why now? Why havent they implemented this 20 years ago?

quote:

Originally posted by EvilTree So you're against it because the club is inefficient?

i said i AGREE with having the fees, because this might make the clubs not use that outside space, and actually let people in right away. I hate waiting in line for no reason other than to make the club look like its the place to be.

Well if some clubs actually go ahead and pay for the space due to thier own business needs,than we should also expect a hike in admission prices.

quote:

Originally posted by Provocative_boi Well if some clubs actually go ahead and pay for the space due to thier own business needs,than we should also expect a hike in admission prices.

Capitalism sucks, eh?

quote:

Originally posted by Cro_Addict It just seems the city is looking for anything to do damage to the scene. Sure it probably will not shut down the businesses, but why now? Why havent they implemented this 20 years ago?

Because politicians are lazy, self serving and incompetent.
So flaws in laws don't get noticed all the time.

quote:

Originally posted by EvilTree Capitalism sucks, eh?

Well i actually see it as a good thing because, during winter time i hate standing in line early sunday morning's outside CZ waiting like hours just to get in........

Re: Should clubs pay a sidewalk rental fee?

quote:

Originally posted by Cosmic Fur I agree fully with this as I've had to wait in these lineups numerous times just because promoters wanted to create more hype for their shitty clubs.

Because you had to wait in line, the clubs should have to pay because to use the sidewalk?

There are other reasons why clubs have line ups besides making it look busy.

Re: Re: Should clubs pay a sidewalk rental fee?

quote:

Originally posted by Big Boss There are other reasons why clubs have line ups besides making it look busy.

Which is what? Not trying to be an ass, but just curious.

Re: Re: Re: Should clubs pay a sidewalk rental fee?

quote:

Originally posted by Cro_Addict Which is what? Not trying to be an ass, but just curious.

Properly searching patrons before they enter the club. As a security precaution obviously. However this does not have to take hours with people waiting outside forever. It mostly happens (the waiting) because they want to hold the line, make the club look amazing etc. OR because the club is so rammed to the tits that they can't let anymore people in. To fix that aspect they should just monitor whoever leaves and slowly let in more people accordingly.

Re: Re: Re: Should clubs pay a sidewalk rental fee?

quote:

Originally posted by Cro_Addict Which is what? Not trying to be an ass, but just curious.

Most of them are mentioned in the article.

- Frisking for one, is a major reason why clubs are slow to move the line.

- Another thing is screening. If you know you are going to be busy, and it's 11pm and you think you are going to be overcapacity, obviously you are going to hold the line to allow your VIPs and regulars time to get to the club before capacity hits.

- Rare instances there's a security issue inside that has to be cleared up.

the short answer is yes.

But renting and all the bureaucracy is not effective.

Lately I have seen police officers on foot, while making their round, asking the clubs to contain the crowds so that people can walk on the sidewalk.... or get fined. If Toronto has officers walking in the club district, it could be an easy solution.

quote:

Originally posted by malek the short answer is yes. But renting and all the bureaucracy is not effective. Lately I have seen police officers on foot, while making their round, asking the clubs to contain the crowds so that people can walk on the sidewalk.... or get fined. If Toronto has officers walking in the club district, it could be an easy solution.

Yes, anything to prevent them from needlessly keeping people outside. It sucks not only for the people waiting in line, but it sucks for people just walking through because they have to walk onto the street to walk around the crowd on the sidewalk, and it sucks for the people driving on the street cause they have to be constantly wary of pedestrians walking our in front of them because the sidewalk is full.

quote:

Originally posted by malek the short answer is yes. But renting and all the bureaucracy is not effective. Lately I have seen police officers on foot, while making their round, asking the clubs to contain the crowds so that people can walk on the sidewalk.... or get fined. If Toronto has officers walking in the club district, it could be an easy solution.

Toronto has cops on horses in downtown

quote:

Originally posted by Cro_Addict It sucks for the clubs. And it does seem like a cheap shot. But, the only reason why I would agree with this, is because I hate standing in line for 30 minutes or 1 hour, and then get in and there is only like 50 ppl in the club...its soo annoying.

After my 2nd time at Lot 332 with the same shenanigan, I never wanted to go back nor did I ever.

quote:

Originally posted by Time2Burn All I get from this is that Adam Vaughan is a dick.

Adam Vaughn is a fucking moron, for this and other hairbrained idea's.

such a douche bag.

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