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Buying PC for production, which sound card

I'm buying a new PC for music production

I've already settled on the following: 2 GB RAM, Core2Duo 2.3GHz or greater.

My question is: What soundcard specs should I be looking at. Is there anything special that I need or should watch out for.

Anything that has a good ASIO driver and the I/O you need. Good ADC/DAC is always a plus, but they're all really a much of a muchness at our level.

Make sure you get the Conroe if you're getting core2duo. Quite the leap in performance over the cheaper core2duos.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16819115003

And I guess this, everyone says it's top shelf

http://www.emu.com/products/product...91&product=9872

Don't go for EMU! There are much better quality, more reliable soundcards.

RME - expensive but very high quality - not the greatest value and aftersales tech support is not the best.

M-audio - good value, good quality, very good after sales tech support, decent drivers.

Motu - Amazing quality (both sound and build), very goood after sales tech support, superb drivers. Not cheap though.

echo - good quality, decent drivers, good after sales support, fairly expensive.

Creative - peice of shit.

Roland / edirol - OK but don't bother - better out there for the cash (M-audio)

Presonus - good quality, decent drivers, but again nothing that other brands can't do better.

Terratec - decent quality whe they do work but very hit and miss depending on model.

Focusrite - great build quality, varying driver quality depending on model, fairly expensive.

digidesign - Very good quality but very expensive for what you get. Drivers also sometimes a problem until they get the version sorted.

My advice (depending on I/O configuration needs obviously)

on a budget: M-audio (amazing qaulity for the money)
Money to spend: MOTU

I take the opinion it's not worth buying a mid range soundcard; either get a really good value, decent quality card, or go the whole hog, save up and buy a top of the range card.

What do you need from the card? Are you recording external signals?

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN on a budget: M-audio (amazing qaulity for the money)

The only good thing m-audio ever did was the delta series (which are/were awesome, but getting a bit dated). Avoid m-audio firewire like the plague.
YES, I have personal experience...

Also, they don't have very good quality preamps.

Are any of the Creative X-Fi cards any good ?

Generally speaking, anything made by Creative and/or it's subsidiaries is crap.

quote:

Originally posted by Subtle Are any of the Creative X-Fi cards any good ?

I said it in my post before "Creative - peice of shit"

Stay away from them, they are not designed for pro audio use.

If you're looking at that price range and at a PCI card, go for M-audio.

I remember the first batsches of the M-Audio FW410 having quality control and driver issues but this was completely eliminated after 6 months. After that they were fine. Pre-amps not amazing, but definately not that bad.

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm Avoid m-audio firewire like the plague.

Curious to know why. I use the fw audiophile and have had no problems with it.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN I said it in my post before "Creative - peice of shit" Stay away from them, they are not designed for pro audio use.

Is that based on experience or general assumption ?

quote:

Originally posted by Subtle Is that based on experience or general assumption ?

Experience. I have had to give tech support for nearly every soundcard you can think of, and when there were issues we creative cards they were just a nightmare. It became a runnning joke that wehn someone started with "hi I've got a creative soundblaster" and we would say "there's your problem". They are also generally not capable of the low latencies needed for pro audio use and are not as stable. Also they don't have very high quality AD/DA converters and so I have found them to not sound very good either. Tech support from Creative is also a joke.

So basically stay away from them.

I see. Thought maybe the X-Fi cards had some potential.

But i`ll stick with my Terratec Universe card for now, but its got only one input, is there any cheap solution for me wanting a couple of more inputs, or do i have to get a brand new card ?

quote:

Originally posted by aquila Curious to know why. I use the fw audiophile and have had no problems with it.

Two computers, both with different firewire chipsets... The knobs rarely worked, and often the mixer software would just stop getting input from the card. I could still hear music, but the control pannel wouldnt show any levels etc. Did the same thing on both computers. I took it back to the shop, it worked fine. I made them replace it anyway... still the same prob. If you search this forum, you'll see the same problem has popped up a few times already.

I basically sold it on ebay and have been using my old 2496 since then. The whole experience put me off m-audio completely.

Apart from using a small mixer like the soundcraft folio notepad to mix the signal before input - the short answer is NO.

If you're on a tight budget, get an M-audio delta 44 or a 1010LT at around �80 and �110 respectively.

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm Two computers, both with different firewire chipsets... The knobs rarely worked, and often the mixer software would just stop getting input from the card. I could still hear music, but the control pannel wouldnt show any levels etc. Did the same thing on both computers. I took it back to the shop, it worked fine. I made them replace it anyway... still the same prob. If you search this forum, you'll see the same problem has popped up a few times already. I basically sold it on ebay and have been using my old 2496 since then. The whole experience put me off m-audio completely.

I bet that was one of the early batch models. They used to really not sit well with the drivers, until they brought out the later driver which did a firmware update on the hardware the first time you installed it, and then everything would be fine.

IMHO The M-audio firewire prodcuts now are fine and they literally sell thousands of them with very low quality control issues.

quote:

Originally posted by Chronosis What do you need from the card? Are you recording external signals?

I might. I have turntables so if I wanted to sample some sound, I'd be able to. But, even for regular producers who don't record any external sounds, the sound card stil has some effect on output quality, doesn't it?

All of you have recommended some soundcards - the thing is that I'm probably buying from Dell (dell.com). I don't know if I can ask them to supply this or that particular card in my configuration. Do you know what options I have with Dell?

Not many - Don't get what dell try to flog you. Buy separately from a known audio shop. Also be careful that it takes standard PCI cards and does not need a riser unit to make it fit.

Dell do not know about the concerns of pro audio, so will try to sell you consumer multimedia cards like creative.

Get an M-audio delta 44 or 1010LT.

I have worked with the M-audio Audiophile USB for about 2 years now, and never had any problems with it.

up to 24-bit/96kHz performance
2 pairs of line-level audio inputs (1/4" TS and RCA)
2 line-level audio outputs (RCA) with level control knob
S/PDIF digital I/O (coaxial) with 2-channel PCM
digital I/O supports surround-encoded AC-3 and DTS passthrough
1x1 MIDI I/O
headphone output (1/4" TRS) with level control knob
AC-powered for high performance A/D and D/A
frequency response: 20Hz to 20kHz +/- 0.5dB
dynamic range: 109dB (A-weighted)
signal-to-noise ratio: 109dB (typical, A-weighted)
THD:
0.002512%
USB recording:
16-bit/44.1kHz > 4-in/4-out
24-bit/44.1kHz > 4-in/2-out or 2-in/4-out
24-bit/48kHz > 4-in/2-out or 2-in/4-out
24-bit/96kHz > 2-in or 2-out
ASIO 2
MME
Sound Manager
OMS
DirectX
Mac OS X Core Audio / Core MIDI

Maybe a little to much info.. but its a damn good soundcard and doesnt cost a fortune. and is verry easy to use!

Cheers
C

You're talking about an external card (based on the USB reference)?

What's better, internal or external?

quote:

Originally posted by HardTranceProd You're talking about an external card (based on the USB reference)? What's better, internal or external?

Yes its a external card based on USB.. I cant say what is best and not.. I took this one cus it was a good card for a good price, and i can use it on my laptop aswell when im traveling, and its easy to just plugin without going in to the computer and installing it... Personally i dont think i dont think there is any major differences on a external and a internal card!

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN Not many - Don't get what dell try to flog you. Buy separately from a known audio shop. Also be careful that it takes standard PCI cards and does not need a riser unit to make it fit. Dell do not know about the concerns of pro audio, so will try to sell you consumer multimedia cards like creative. Get an M-audio delta 44 or 1010LT.

+1

Theres nothing wrong with Dell... IF youre a grandma wanting to get on the "interwebs" or you're looking for a family PC. However, if youre using it for music or anything serious you should build it yourself or have it built by a computer store. It works out cheaper anyway...

quote:

Originally posted by HardTranceProd You're talking about an external card (based on the USB reference)? What's better, internal or external?

Internal will always have lower latencies. BUT it is better to have your ADC/DAC outside the computer to avoid interference getting in (SOME "internal" cards have a breakout with the ADC/DAC externally, whereas all external cards obviously do).

Other than that there is no difference.

However, PCI is on its way out now, as it is being replaced by PCI-E. You could argue that buying a PCI sound card wouldn't be wise. I'm sure you could find industrial motherboards that still have PCI slots once they're completely phased out... but yeah... I wouldn't do that.

quote:

Originally posted by HardTranceProd I might. I have turntables so if I wanted to sample some sound, I'd be able to. But, even for regular producers who don't record any external sounds, the sound card stil has some effect on output quality, doesn't it?

It has effect on the quality you hear and thus affects the way you engineer your track. But it has no effect on the actual digital track on your computer.

If one is recording external signals, it's important to have good A/D converters, and for that purpose I wouldn't recommend M-audio products. For pure software producing, they are fine. Their drivers work smoothly, without any problems (at least in the Delta series). But for actually recording stuff, I would recommend something in the lines of RME (Fireface 400 perhaps). E-mu does pack a good hardware, but perhaps it's because Creative bought Ensonig, that the software does no justice to the hardware. They just don't provide stable, solid products for music production, like companies with experience in exactly that.

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