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We're all 'American-Canadians' now

I think I will pick up this book :::

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We're all 'American-Canadians' now * Andrew Cohen's book The Unfinished Canadian brilliantly skewers anti-Americanism By Dianne Rinehart The Hamilton Spectator More articles by this columnist (May 12, 2007) It's lonely being pro-American in Canada -- and sometimes at a dinner party, after a good ration of wine, slightly dangerous. But why should it be so? The friendliest city I've ever walked in -- and I've visited scores on five continents -- is New York. The most pristine beach I've ever stood on is in Florida. The best food I've ever eaten -- sorry Italy, France! -- is in California's Sonoma Valley. Still, you won't hear many people admit that. No, we love to hate America -- and Americans. We sniff that our medical system is superior to theirs, then sneak down to their world-class clinics when we fall sick. We call ourselves peacemakers and Americans warmongers -- but do the math on peacekeeping assignments and the United States comes out ahead. It picks up 26 per cent of the annual $5 billion budget for UN Peacekeeping, and despite the fact it's slightly distracted by the war in Iraq, it currently has twice as many UN peacekeepers in the field as Canada. Meanwhile, we sniff our disdain for Hollywood movies, though we attend them in droves (as we should, they make some of the best) -- while completely ignoring our own. And as author, journalist and Carleton University professor Andrew Cohen points out in his intelligently argued and entertaining new book, The Unfinished Canadian (McClelland & Stewart, $29.99), which delivers both amusing and incredible insight into the Canadian psyche, we're not afraid to attack Americans -- not only when we're wrong, but when we know we're wrong. Consider former Prime Minister Paul Martin's 2005 election campaign "chiding" of the US over its commitment to the Kyoto accord. "The United States lacked 'a global conscience' for reneging on its obligations under Kyoto," he said, though America's emissions have risen 13 per cent since 1990 while ours are up 24 per cent. "Rebuking the Americans on Kyoto -- fully aware that Canada's record was even worse than America's -- was trafficking in hyperbole and hypocrisy," Cohen notes. So why do it? Anti-Americanism wins votes. And we think their politicians are pathetic? How about our snobbery that we're multiculturalists and bilingual ("Quoi?" dit le Quebec!) -- and they're not. Consider, Cohen asks, that of the 41 million Hispanics in the United States, 31 million speak Spanish at home, and that automatic tellers in major cities provide instructions in Spanish and English, as ours do in English and French. Or that "in 1973, 78 per cent of students in public schools were white, and 22 per cent were minorities while in 2004, 57 per cent were white and 43 per cent were minorities." Or how about this: A 2005 Ipsos-Reid poll reported: "When asked whether people from diverse backgrounds would be better off if they became more like the majority, 44 per cent of Canadians said yes in contrast to 38 per cent of Americans." "Is this a melting pot?" Cohen asks rhetorically. Say no more. Here's another: They're fat and we're fit! Ahem. Cohen reports half of Americans are fat, while a third of Canadians are. And, alarmingly, he says: "The rate of growth in obesity is about the same on both sides of the border." And I've interviewed Canadian obesity experts who say our adult obesity rate is already at the halfway mark, and that 37 per cent of our children are also overweight. So who's calling whom fat? While myth bashing quickly gets the point across, Cohen's chapter on the American Canadian (the others he analyzes are the Hybrid, Observed, Unconscious, Casual, Capital, Chameleon and Future Canadians) also makes a strong analytical case that suggests our values are converging with those of Americans. In the end, the American-Canadian "watches American movies and television, wears American jeans, listens to American music, reads American books and magazines. "He drinks coffee at Starbucks, eats hamburgers at McDonald's and ice cream at Ben and Jerry's," Cohen notes. "He aspires to the American Dream, whether it is represented by minivan or an SUV, and the greatest obstacle to achieving it isn't desire but money." Oh yeah, they're better at creating wealth -- which they use to feed the world, promote democracy and human rights, and defend the free world -- than we are. Now there's a difference we can be proud of. In short, Cohen points out: "If Canadians were really anti-American, we would have to denounce ourselves, or everything about our country and our place in it." So how does he define us? "We are contradictory, inconsistent and, yes, occasionally hypocritical." In short, we're not so different from Americans as we may like to believe. And those of us who value the freedoms that attract refugees and immigrants the world over think that's a good thing. Vive l'Amerique libre!

SOURCE

I can see Canada as a 51st state of the US in future, it's allright with me.

Two words: Pathetic asskissing.

Good article

Sigh... sooo many inaccuracies in this article.

Like for example America being a "melting pot". It is NOT a melting pot, not even close. It is an Anglo-Saxon country which an Anglo culture.

but I'm not gonna bother explaining this... too little time. America, far from being a place of diversity, is actually (surprisingly) a place of conformity and firmly delineated social networks.

If you didn't grow up here and if you didn't go to college or high school in America i don't expect you to understand this.

In the COR somebody posted about a "Greek day" on campus and this girl from Canada ("Frenchie") immediately thought it was something to do with Greece, like an international party on campus. LOL. I rest my case.

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Originally posted by HardTranceProd Like for example America being a "melting pot". It is NOT a melting pot, not even close. It is an Anglo-Saxon country which an Anglo culture.

Well, it's an unequal melting pot. There's no racial mixture in the middle, but there sure as hell is where I live in LA (Russians, Armenians, Persians, Mexicans, Thai, Korean, Ethiopeans, etc).

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but I'm not gonna bother explaining this... too little time. America, far from being a place of diversity, is actually (surprisingly) a place of conformity and firmly delineated social networks. If you didn't grow up here and if you didn't go to college or high school in America i don't expect you to understand this.

Who is going to understand your point when your "not gonna bother explaining this"? America is too diverse, although I'll agree that in some aspects it is not.

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In the COR somebody posted about a "Greek day" on campus and this girl from Canada ("Frenchie") immediately thought it was something to do with Greece, like an international party on campus. LOL. I rest my case.

And that supports your theory how? Someone also posted about a Hi5 site in the COR and I thought they were talking about AIDS.

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Originally posted by Jake Benson Well, it's an unequal melting pot. There's no racial mixture in the middle, but there sure as hell is where I live in LA (Russians, Armenians, Persians, Mexicans, Thai, Korean, Ethiopeans, etc).

First of all, "diversity" does not necessarily mean "ethno-racial diversity". I'll give you just one example: American colleges/universities. If you're not part of (1) Greek life or (2) sports organizations, American colleges have no social life. If you're not interested in the two things above, you are pretty much a social outcast with few friends. Intriguingly, some experts believe this is why the Virginia Tech killer was so ostracized and alienated. How's that for "diversity"? In European colleges, for instance, social life is not all about 2 specific things, marked by social cliques. Indeed cliquiness is much less noticeable even in non-acadamic settings.

But in terms of your more conventional understanding of "diversity", I have something to say as well. LA isn't really representative of America.

In March I went on a Spring Break vacation in Panama City, FL. The students there were from Alabama, Tennessee, Kentucky, and other Southern states. I was the ONLY guy there with dark hair. There weren't even any Latinos at all (although there were some blacks). Most students were Anglo, with fair features and blond hair.

You see, the "diversity" that you talk about pertains to places in America that were settled by immigrants. That's usually the Northeastern cities (NY/Chicago) and LA. But very few immigrants settled outside of these well-known points. America is otherwise solidly white Western European racially, and also a foreign accent for instance is rather unusual.

OH OH and one more thing -

If you wanna watch TV, what are your options? Pretty standard: ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, HBO. What's so "diverse"? (with the notable exception of Public Broadcasting, the only good TV channel). Your options are limited.

If you wanna grab some food - what are your options? Pretty standard: Quizno's, Subway, McDonalds, Potbelly, Starbucks.

If you wanna listen to radio - what are your options? Not many. The standard stations that cater to 'mass-appeal' music, top40 stuff. Nothing unusual or alternative.

You see, America's franchising and market economy doesn't really lend itself to... er... DIVERSITY.

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Originally posted by HardTranceProd First of all, "diversity" does not necessarily mean "ethno-racial diversity". I'll give you just one example: American colleges/universities. If you're not part of (1) Greek life or (2) sports organizations, American colleges have no social life.

Right, because there's no such things as dorms or off-campus housing. And those who live in dorms or apts are surely lonely.

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If you're not interested in the two things above, you are pretty much a social outcast with few friends.

That's based on a faulty assumption that greek life and sports organizations are the only two social norms college life has to offer. Those are the two most common ways of college life, but that doesn't hinder anybody's capability of forming their own clicks or social gatherings. When I was on campus, I saw a lot of popular kids who didn't play sports or join a frat.

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Intriguingly, some experts believe this is why the Virginia Tech killer was so ostracized and alienated. How's that for "diversity"?

You can't rule out that individual differences play into account, i.e. chemical imbalance. Moreover, I think I read that the kid always had a troubled life and fitting in prior to college.

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But in terms of your more conventional understanding of "diversity", I have something to say as well. LA isn't really representative of America.

What about New York, Miami, Seattle, San Francisco, San Diego, New Orleans, Chicago, D.C.? They all seem to be growing in ethnic diversity. If you really push me (and I have time) I'll look at the top 10 cities and ethnic trends over the past 100 years and then post them. If anything, I think they're all increasing in ethnic diversity. After all, who are the largest groups of immigrants these days, Europeans? No. Mexicans and Asians.

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In March I went on a Spring Break vacation in Panama City, FL. The students there were from Alabama, Tennessee, Kentucky, and other Southern states. I was the ONLY guy there with dark hair.

Well it looks like you went to a segregated place. I went to visit my dad in DeRidder Louisiana and the town still has a section where specifically ALL the black people live. That doesn't mean that non-slave states are as segregated. Next time go take your Spring Vacation in Miami, Fl.

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There weren't even any Latinos at all (although there were some blacks). Most students were Anglo, with fair features and blond hair.

Really? Well maybe if you go to more than ONE spring break vacation in more than ONE city, you'll find that there's more diversity.

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You see, the "diversity" that you talk about pertains to places in America that were settled by immigrants. That's usually the Northeastern cities (NY/Chicago) and LA. But very few immigrants settled outside of these well-known points. America is otherwise solidly white Western European racially, and also a foreign accent for instance is rather unusual.

Yeah you're right to an extent. But look at the trends now. The Mexicans are travelling farther North and the Asians are ALL up and down the West Coast.

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OH OH and one more thing - If you wanna watch TV, what are your options? Pretty standard: ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, HBO. What's so "diverse"? (with the notable exception of Public Broadcasting, the only good TV channel). Your options are limited.

Your point would be valid if the year was 1957, which it is not.
Your point would also be valid if there was no such thing as cable, satellite, or internet, which there are such things.

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If you wanna grab some food - what are your options? Pretty standard: Quizno's, Subway, McDonalds, Potbelly, Starbucks.

Don't forget Wendy's, Burger King, Astro Burger, Dicks, Bossa Nova, Toi Thai, Sweet Chili Thai, Cafe Vegan, Sammy's Thai BBQ, Kiku, Tokyo Garden, Gate of India, Arby's, Coffee Bean, etc. That's just a sample of places I've been to, many of which are not chains.

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If you wanna listen to radio - what are your options? Not many. The standard stations that cater to 'mass-appeal' music, top40 stuff. Nothing unusual or alternative.

Okay I agree with you 100% on that, but onyl within the context of AM/FM. You now have options to listen to satellite radio which gives you PLENTY of diversity. And if you still don't like that, you can always shop at iTunes, Beatport, or hell, make your own music and listen to it.

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You see, America's franchising and market economy doesn't really lend itself to... er... DIVERSITY.

You see, I just gave you examples and reasons for how it DOES.

By the way it's funny that you mention LA. I visited in 2004. I remember seeing a guy in some random bar in LA who was wearing a shirt that said, "Don't speak English? Get the fuck out." As a matter of fact, I went to that bar the same day I arrived in LA.

Of course one anecdote doesn't prove anything, but... true story.

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When I was on campus, I saw a lot of popular kids who didn't play sports or join a frat.

This is very surprising to me, and runs counter to my experience. Any other forum members willing to share their thoughts on this?

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After all, who are the largest groups of immigrants these days, Europeans? No. Mexicans and Asians.

On a bus or subway in Canada, you're very likely to run into people of the following ethnicities: Portuguese, Croatian, Russian, Polish, Italian, Romanian. Please don't tell me they're not coming to North America, because they are, in large numbers. The founder of this forum (TA) is a Portuguese immigrant living in Canada, for instance.

But I have rarely seen people of these ethnicities in the US.

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Well it looks like you went to a segregated place.

Not segregated, like I said it was full of students arriving from other places. They were arriving from KY, AL, TN, etc. And these places are overwhelmingly Anglo. Otherwise, I would have seen more blacks or Latinos or Arabs, wouldn't I?

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Your point would also be valid if there was no such thing as cable, satellite, or internet, which there are such things. .... You now have options to listen to satellite radio which gives you PLENTY of diversity. And if you still don't like that, you can always shop at iTunes, Beatport, or hell, make your own music and listen to it.

OK. But how many Americans take advantage of that? Most people in this country are quite sheltered and maybe too lazy to explore what's available to them outside of their safe little zones. Note that this is still the exact OPPOSITE of "diversity".

That's exactly why people who work in the tourism industry always say that it's easy to tell if someone is an American tourist, because, when abroad, they will usually flock to the "M" or "KFC" signs, for instance, instead of making the effort to sample local culture and cuisine.

I don't want to belabor the point, but I do want to make clear that the myth of "diversity" in the US is profoundly misunderstood and very much flawed.

So let me get this straight...

This guy thinks that the friendliest people...

are the people of New York?

This HAS to be a satire.

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Originally posted by HardTranceProd Sigh... sooo many inaccuracies in this article. Like for example America being a "melting pot". It is NOT a melting pot, not even close. It is an Anglo-Saxon country which an Anglo culture.

I'd only apply the term Anglo Saxon to people from British descent, but at the same time anciently the UK isn't a pure Anglo Saxon country. In general a lot of indiginious Brits will come from Anglo Saxon stock though even the UK is a severly bastardised nation due to countless migrations Romans, Vikings, Normans, Celts etc.

Too much migration into the States, from all over the shot.

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Originally posted by DJ Shibby So let me get this straight... This guy thinks that the friendliest people... are the people of New York? This HAS to be a satire.

Actually I did a recent poll where NY was pretty high on the list...

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r Actually I did a recent poll where NY was pretty high on the list...

just don't misinterpret "HEY.. FUCK YOU!" as an insult.

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Originally posted by ResonantDrag just don't misinterpret "HEY.. FUCK YOU!" as an insult.

I though it was, "Can't you see I'm WALIN' HEEERE!!!" with a middle finger?

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r I though it was, "Can't you see I'm WALIN' HEEERE!!!" with a middle finger?

man... the nicest people i ever had the pleasure of getting yelled at by.



on a different note. the only dicks i've ever met in T.O. were from jersey.

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Originally posted by HardTranceProd By the way it's funny that you mention LA. I visited in 2004. I remember seeing a guy in some random bar in LA who was wearing a shirt that said, "Don't speak English? Get the fuck out." As a matter of fact, I went to that bar the same day I arrived in LA.

What does that have to do with diversity? That has to do with people tolerating diversity. Hell, I'd wear that shirt.

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On a bus or subway in Canada, you're very likely to run into people of the following ethnicities: Portuguese, Croatian, Russian, Polish, Italian, Romanian. Please don't tell me they're not coming to North America, because they are, in large numbers. The founder of this forum (TA) is a Portuguese immigrant living in Canada, for instance. But I have rarely seen people of these ethnicities in the US.

What city? Some rural place in middle Canada, or wait lemme guess, Vancouver, Toronto or Quebec...or some suburb thereof? What about where you are right now in D.C. There sure are no black at all people there......right? Go check out the mall right by the Pentagon and tell me what you see...

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Not segregated, like I said it was full of students arriving from other places. They were arriving from KY, AL, TN, etc. And these places are overwhelmingly Anglo. Otherwise, I would have seen more blacks or Latinos or Arabs, wouldn't I?

Yes, segregated. There are blacks and latinos in the south, but the white people are still arrogant covert racists and stick to their kind more so than in the West, Midwest, or Northeast. Many white people like to segregate among other whites in the south still. You reinforce my point by saying they were from KY, AL, TN, as opposed to CA, WA, or NH.

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OK. But how many Americans take advantage of that? Most people in this country are quite sheltered and maybe too lazy to explore what's available to them outside of their safe little zones. Note that this is still the exact OPPOSITE of "diversity".

Um...WHAT? I thought this was a debate on diversity, and now you are turning it into a "Americans are too sheltered to explore diversity." There are so many venues of playing music in America and now you assume that Americans are not taking advantage of this? What statistic or clue gives you the idea that Americans don't turn listen to stuff outside of radio? Please site one, just ONE, source. Actually I'll give you a clue. There is none.

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That's exactly why people who work in the tourism industry always say that it's easy to tell if someone is an American tourist, because, when abroad, they will usually flock to the "M" or "KFC" signs, for instance, instead of making the effort to sample local culture and cuisine.

Really, because when I see THAI people come to AMERICA from THAI LAND, they usually eat THAI FOOD. Looks like it's easy to tell who is thai huh.

This is a separate issue that has nothing to do with diversity. Many people tend to eat what they are familiar with when out of the country.

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Of course one anecdote doesn't prove anything, but... true story.

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I don't want to belabor the point, but I do want to make clear that the myth of "diversity" in the US is profoundly misunderstood and very much flawed.

I don't want to make you sound contradictory from placing the above two posts next to each other, but judging by your anecdotes, it doesn't look like you have a profound understanding of the diversity that exists in America from the few examples (some even off topic) you've given.

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Originally posted by ResonantDrag just don't misinterpret "HEY.. FUCK YOU!" as an insult.

I interpret "Hi how are you" as an insult because the person who says it usually:

1. walks away so I can't even answer
2. doesn't really care how I am
3. asks the question AGAIN even right after I've answered
EXAMPLE:
"Hi how are you?"
"good, thanks"
"That's great, how you doin?"
"I already answered that question. Go to hell you thoughtless clone"

When someone says to me "HEY...FUCK YOU" I smile back (or say it back) because I know they're not lying to me or trying to act fake.

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Originally posted by Jake Benson I interpret "Hi how are you" as an insult because the person who says it usually: 1. walks away so I can't even answer 2. doesn't really care how I am 3. asks the question AGAIN even right after I've answered EXAMPLE: "Hi how are you?" "good, thanks" "That's great, how you doin?" "I already answered that question. Go to hell you thoughtless clone" When someone says to me "HEY...FUCK YOU" I smile back (or say it back) because I know they're not lying to me or trying to act fake.

Well usually the first and second inquiry on a person's being relate to emotional and physical status...

So it would be, "Hi, how are you?" followed by "What are you up to?"

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Originally posted by star-traveller I can see Canada as a 51st state of the US in future, it's allright with me.

The former British North American Colonies that became Canada have collectively rejected 4 invitations to join the US and confederated almost exclusively to avoid being annexed by force... I'm pretty confident that there is very little desire by those north of the 49th to become one with our friends to the south. This is not to say we dislike the US. The truth is there are more things that we agree on then disagree on and our guiding principles and values are pretty consistant, however, we have different visions on how best to acheive our goals. I kind of view it the same way I do Roman Catholics and Anglicans... pretty much the same but with some significant stylistic differences.

I've lived/worked/run screaming from 48 or so countries on all the continents too...

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The friendliest city I've ever walked in -- and I've visited scores on five continents -- is New York.

Bzzzt wron....
How in the hell did NY make that one?
I guess by 'friendly' they mean haven't shot at you lately, lifted up your dress on a subway or tried to steal your belongings as 'friendly'
Yep, a lot is made of NY and it's inherit cranky/crank inhabitants and it's nowhere near the worst, but there's a good dozen or so which are much nicer places. Actually, most of the 'nice' people in NY are actually yanks from other parts of US or the migrants

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The most pristine beach I've ever stood on is in Florida.

Bzzt! Wrong!
Most of Florida smells of rotting seaweed, swampwater, coconut oil and the inhabitants are usually balling crazy on various drugs, which has it's own appeal I guess.
There's innumerable beaches around the world which are pristine, and by pristine I mean you're not treading on needles in the sand and dodging people amped up on roids and coke as a daily fact of life.
(Try some parts of SE Asia, where no one else goes! It's cheap too!)

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The best food I've ever eaten -- sorry Italy, France! --is in California's Sonoma Valley.

Bzzt! Wrong!
It's Greece with a close runner up of Italy, Germany and Japan also have fine food.

The US has a lot of things to offer people and a lot of them are good things too, I won't detract from the fact that it's just basically a great way of making a lot of money compared to most anywhere else. I like the US and have seen enough it to realise they're not all clich�d, fat, arrogant, inbred, cousin marrying idiots that drive big gas guzzling cars and shoot people as a democratic right.

But the rest of the world grows very weary of US culture permeating our lives, sometimes against our distinct objection to it, sometimes, we really are just content living where we are and doing what we do without Uncle Sam.

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Originally posted by Lilith I've lived/worked/run screaming from 48 or so countries on all the continents too... Bzzzt wron.... How in the hell did NY make that one? I guess by 'friendly' they mean haven't shot at you lately, lifted up your dress on a subway or tried to steal your belongings as 'friendly' Yep, a lot is made of NY and it's inherit cranky/crank inhabitants and it's nowhere near the worst, but there's a good dozen or so which are much nicer places. Actually, most of the 'nice' people in NY are actually yanks from other parts of US or the migrants Bzzt! Wrong! Most of Florida smells of rotting seaweed, swampwater, coconut oil and the inhabitants are usually balling crazy on various drugs, which has it's own appeal I guess. There's innumerable beaches around the world which are pristine, and by pristine I mean you're not treading on needles in the sand and dodging people amped up on roids and coke as a daily fact of life. (Try some parts of SE Asia, where no one else goes! It's cheap too!) Bzzt! Wrong! It's Greece with a close runner up of Italy, Germany and Japan also have fine food. The US has a lot of things to offer people and a lot of them are good things too, I won't detract from the fact that it's just basically a great way of making a lot of money compared to most anywhere else. I like the US and have seen enough it to realise they're not all clich�d, fat, arrogant, inbred, cousin marrying idiots that drive big gas guzzling cars and shoot people as a democratic right. But the rest of the world grows very weary of US culture permeating our lives, sometimes against our distinct objection to it, sometimes, we really are just content living where we are and doing what we do without Uncle Sam.

Hater!!

Well... when I do have the urge to hate you'll be happy to know I'll do it with a US manufactured weapon.

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What city? Some rural place in middle Canada, or wait lemme guess, Vancouver, Toronto or Quebec...or some suburb thereof? What about where you are right now in D.C. There sure are no black at all people there......right? Go check out the mall right by the Pentagon and tell me what you see...

i belive the city you were trying to mention was Montreal.... Quebec is a province Dumbass and Quebec City is not nearly large enough to be mentioned in your list.

Canada will always be Canadian as simple as. A strong colonial hertige of British and French with the many other immigrants from other nations who have built communities and flourished there. Some Canadians I feel adopt some US culture in some aspects but they have their own identity and may it stay that way.

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Originally posted by Lilith Bzzt! Wrong! It's Greece with a close runner up of Italy, Germany and Japan also have fine food.

And the survey says... Da Der! The Bubble and Squeeks cook some alright food, speaking from spending over a month there, Mousakka, Lamb Klefitiko, Tzatiki and stuffed vines leaves are delicious however I've had some rancid fare over there.

Italy is culinary superior to the rest of the world food wise IMO. Rustic but sophisticated tasty but fairly healthy. Some might disagree. Spain comes a close second then I'd say France.

Germany all I remember is Bratwurst, Salami's, Saurkraut, Stollen and loads of ginger bread type buscuits.

On the arguement about the yanks foodwise, American beef is very good as they regulate their livestock and slaughtering processes properly.

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard The former British North American Colonies that became Canada have collectively rejected 4 invitations to join the US and confederated almost exclusively to avoid being annexed by force... I'm pretty confident that there is very little desire by those north of the 49th to become one with our friends to the south. This is not to say we dislike the US. The truth is there are more things that we agree on then disagree on and our guiding principles and values are pretty consistant, however, we have different visions on how best to acheive our goals. I kind of view it the same way I do Roman Catholics and Anglicans... pretty much the same but with some significant stylistic differences.

Canada will fail. Just give it time. It's neighbor is the US and it can only manage to be one of the wealthiest nations on earth as oppose to it being the second wealthiest. But than again the Americans aren't good at fair trade even though they try to promote it. Americans are certainly the bigger cheaters. But that is what got us as being the wealthiest nation on earth.

I love canada. I just don't like the fact that they have America as their neighbor. Thankfully though they weren't fucked over like Mexico and other nations in Latin America. You think it's because they are not white?

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