TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Political Discussion / Debate
-- Lebanese troops bombard Palestinian Refugee Camp
Pages (2): [1] 2 »
Lebanese troops bombard Palestinian Refugee Camp
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18777683/
| quote: |
| TRIPOLI, Lebanon - Lebanese army artillery shelled a Palestinian refugee camp where a shadowy group suspected of ties to al-Qaida was holed up Monday, pounding militant hideouts for a second day in the worst eruption of violence since the end of the 1975-90 civil war. The official death toll from Sunday�s violence climbed to near 50, but it was not known how many civilians have been killed inside the Nahr el-Bared camp on the outskirts of the northern port city of Tripoli, the scene of the heaviest fighting. No new deaths were reported Monday outside the camp, but it was not known whether civilians or militants were killed inside the camp during heavy shelling because emergency workers and security officials have not been able to get in. Lebanese officials said one of the men killed Sunday, Saddam, El-Hajdib, was a suspect in a failed German train bombing � another indication the camp had become a refuge for Fatah Islam militants planning attacks outside of Lebanon. In the past, others affiliated with the group in the camp have said they were aiming to send trained fighters into Iraq and the group�s leader has been linked to al-Qaida in Iraq. Hundreds of Lebanese army troops, backed by tanks and armored carriers, surrounded the refugee camp Monday. M-48 battle tanks unleashed their cannon fire on the camp, sending orange flames followed by dense black plumes of smoke. The militants fired mortars toward the troops at daybreak. An army officer at the front line said troops directed concentrated fire at buildings known to house militants in the camp. He said troops also had orders to strike hard at any target that directed fire back at them. �Everything we know that they were present in has been targeted,� he told The Associated Press, speaking on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to talk to the media. Fatah Islam threatens wider fight A spokesman for Fatah Islam, Abu Salim, warned that if the army bombardment did not stop, the militants would step up attacks by rockets and artillery �and would take the battle outside Tripoli.� He did not elaborate on the threat, holding authorities responsible for the consequences. �It is a life-or-death battle. Their aim is to wipe out Fatah Islam. We will respond and we know how to respond,� he told the AP. Earlier in the day, another refugee camp, Ein el-Hilweh in southern Lebanon, was tense after Lebanese troops surrounded it and armed militants went on alert. Civilian toll unknown At least 27 soldiers and 20 militants were killed Sunday, Lebanese security officials said. But they did not know how many civilians had been killed in the camp because it is off-limits to their authority. Lebanon says it has no authority to enter the camps under understandings with the Palestinians that give the PLO the authority in the camps. But Lebanon also is believed to be leery of entering for fear that any such actions would cause widespread unrest, be very costly and could spark pan-Arab sympathy for the Palestinian refugees that would trigger a backlash against the country. There were conflicting reports Monday about the arrangement of a truce that medical officials on the camp�s edge said would allow the distribution of food and supplies and the evacuation of the wounded. Army officials said there was no cease-fire in place yet, but Hamas� Lebanon representative, Osama Hamdan, said an agreement was reached. Police raid starts fighting The clashes were triggered when police raided suspected Fatah Islam hideouts in several buildings in Tripoli, searching for men wanted in a recent bank robbery. A gunbattle erupted at one of the buildings between the group�s fighters, and troops were called in to help the police. Militants then burst out of the nearby refugee camp, seizing Lebanese army positions, capturing two armored vehicles and ambushing troops. Lebanese troops later laid siege to the refugee camp where Fatah Islam militants were believed to be hiding, unleashing fire from tanks, artillery and heavy machine guns. It was unclear whether Lebanese authorities had known El-Hajdib�s whereabouts, or the whereabouts of the group�s leader, a Palestinian named Shaker al-Absi, before the gunbattle first broke out in Tripoli. Al-Absi, wanted in three countries, told The New York Times in March that he was trying to spread al-Qaida�s ideology and was training fighters inside the camp for attacks on other countries. He would not specify which countries but expressed anger toward the United States. And he was sentenced to death earlier in absentia along with Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the leader of al-Qaida in Iraq killed last summer by U.S. forces in Iraq, for the 2002 assassination of an American diplomat in Jordan. Al-Absi had been in custody in Syria until last fall but was released and set up his group in the camp, where he apparently found recruits, Lebanese officials said. Group decried as �imitation al-Qaida� Lebanon�s national police commander, Maj. Gen. Ashraf Rifi, said Damascus was using the Fatah Islam group as a covert way to wreak havoc in the country. He denied Fatah Islam�s al-Qaida links, saying it was a Syrian-bred group. �Perhaps there are some deluded people among them but they are not al-Qaida. This is imitation al-Qaida, a �Made in Syria� one,� he told the AP. Lebanese security officials said Fatah Islam has up to 100 members who come from Arab countries, including Saudi Arabia and Syria, as well as local sympathizers who belong to the conservative Salafi branch of Islam. The Lebanese Broadcasting Corp. TV station reported the dead militants included men from Bangladesh, Yemen and other Arab countries. Some of those killed were wearing explosive belts, security officials said. Ahmed Methqal, a Muslim cleric in the camp, told Al-Jazeera that five civilians had been killed. �You can say there is a massacre going on in the camp of children and women who have nothing to do with Fatah Islam,� he said. �They are targeting buildings, with people in them. What�s the guilt of children, women and the elderly?� He said sniper fire had confined the camp�s 30,000 residents to their houses. Struggle with insurgents Lebanon has struggled to defeat armed groups that control pockets of the country � especially inside the 12 Palestinian refugee camps housing 350,000 people, which Lebanese authorities can�t enter. Some camps have become havens for Islamic militants accused of carrying out attacks in the country and of sending recruits to fight U.S.-led coalition forces in Iraq. Palestinian officials in the West Bank sought to distance themselves from Fatah Islam and urged Palestinian refugees in the camp to isolate the militant group. Palestinian officials who met Monday with Lebanese Prime Minister Fuad Saniora said he was focused on saving lives and left it to him to decide whether to send the army into the camp. �Entering the camp does not mean it will be easy to get rid of this (Fatah Islam) phenomenon,� PLO representative Abbas Zaki warned. Lebanese Sunni political and religious leaders backed the army and the government. Lebanon was already in the midst of its worst political crisis between the Western-backed government and Hezbollah-led opposition since the end of the civil war. Saniora said Sunday the fighting was a �dangerous attempt at hitting Lebanese security.� Late Sunday, an explosion across the street from a busy shopping mall in the Christian sector of Beirut killed a 63-year-old woman and injured 12 other people, police said. Beirut and its suburbs have seen a series of blasts in the last two years, many targeting Christian areas. Authorities blamed Fatah Islam for Feb. 13 bombings of commuter buses that killed three, but the group denied involvement. Syria has denied involvement in any of the bombings. |
Kind of ridiculous how cable news networks are praising Lebanon for this, after they were trying to connect every "Terrorist nation" for aiding hezbollah last year during their conflict with israel.
I'd be careful not to describe this group as Palestinian (before the pro-Israelis begin running amok in this thread screaming about what the Palestinians are like!)
The PLO commander of their forces in Lebanon (and all the other major Palestinian factions in Lebanon) have distanced themselves from this group, claiming that on 3% of the group are actually Palestinian. Apparently this group only surfaced last year sometime and looks likely to be a Syrian proxy force, claiming to act on behalf of the Palestinians with it's real agenda being an attempt to derail Lebanese politics at this crucial time for the country, thereby deflecting attention (and preventing) the international enquiry into Rafik Hariri's assassination. The Palestinian groups have so far kept out of the current political crisis that has taken over Lebanon since Mr Hariri's death, and for good reason too. Palestinian involvement in Lebanon contributed greatly to the break out of civil war in the 70s and nobody (least of al the Palestinians) want that - apart from Syria maybe, who used the last conflict to exert control over the nation they consider to be historically part of Greater Syria...
^^what he said.
I blame the West and the Jews....... Its all their and always their fault!!
| quote: |
| Originally posted by George Smiley I'd be careful not to describe this group as Palestinian (before the pro-Israelis begin running amok in this thread screaming about what the Palestinians are like!) The PLO commander of their forces in Lebanon (and all the other major Palestinian factions in Lebanon) have distanced themselves from this group, claiming that on 3% of the group are actually Palestinian. Apparently this group only surfaced last year sometime and looks likely to be a Syrian proxy force, claiming to act on behalf of the Palestinians with it's real agenda being an attempt to derail Lebanese politics at this crucial time for the country, thereby deflecting attention (and preventing) the international enquiry into Rafik Hariri's assassination. The Palestinian groups have so far kept out of the current political crisis that has taken over Lebanon since Mr Hariri's death, and for good reason too. Palestinian involvement in Lebanon contributed greatly to the break out of civil war in the 70s and nobody (least of al the Palestinians) want that - apart from Syria maybe, who used the last conflict to exert control over the nation they consider to be historically part of Greater Syria... |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Marc Summers Who said anything about Palestinians? |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by George Smiley when it would be wrong (apparantly) to use the actions of Fatah al-Islam as a smear against Palestinians in Lebanon |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Q5echo i think the way the Lebanese have treated the Palestinians speaks volumes about how they are treated by the Arab world in general. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by LazFX +1 its just not the big ol bad jews.....is it?? |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Q5echo i think the way the Lebanese have treated the Palestinians speaks volumes about how they are treated by the Arab world in general. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Q5echo i think the way the Lebanese have treated the Palestinians speaks volumes about how they are treated by the Arab world in general. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by George Smiley Yep, they get fucked in the arse everywhere they end up. They are not wanted anywhere in the Arab world. No excuses for that (especially for a bunch of states that so often uses the plight of the Palestinians for their own political ends) but we shouldn't forget why they are there in the first place... |
| quote: |
| Again, there are arguements that would criticise the Palestinians and the Israelis but Lebanon never asked for them to come, and when they were forced to move their by the Israelis the Christians felt threatened that they would become a minority and they began fighting with each other - this dragged in the other religious groups, along with Syria and Israel and everything went tits up... |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by LazFX its just not the big ol bad jews.....is it?? |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by M.Johan Who has said that? |
| quote: |
| More than 700,000(seven hundred thousands)palastenine refugees have been forced by the Israeli occupation to leave their land & homes from 1948 "We created terror among the Arabs and all the villages around. In one blow, we changed the strategic situation." Menachem Begin The Source |
^^^ Palestinians were always a gambling chip for other Arab nations - they are used as the wedge and lever to justify erradication of the state of Israel.
Surprisingly enough, none of these countries are willing to do much for Palestinians that ask them for help, aside from making public declarations and speeches about love for Palestinians and deep-seated hatred for Israel. Furthermore, it makes such a beautiful and yet simple bait for soft-hearted "gentiles" - show them how much-despised Christ-killers are killing poor palestinians and have "STOLEN" their land.
Hook, line, and sinker - you take it all in. Well, here's your soap opera unraveling right in front of you. Part of you screams in denial, the other part works hard on finding justifications - "umm. tham darn jews must be behind all this!"... yet at the end of the day it all comes down to simple truths which are revealed on daily basis. Tho, now they are more in your face. Perhaps its time to take your rose-colored glasses off and face the truth? No?
just a thought...
I hope the Lebanese army destorys every single one of those terrorists.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Krypton I hope the Lebanese army destorys every single one of those terrorists. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by emc^2 ^^^ Palestinians were always a gambling chip for other Arab nations - they are used as the wedge and lever to justify erradication of the state of Israel. Surprisingly enough, none of these countries are willing to do much for Palestinians that ask them for help, aside from making public declarations and speeches about love for Palestinians and deep-seated hatred for Israel. |
| quote: |
| Furthermore, it makes such a beautiful and yet simple bait for soft-hearted "gentiles" - show them how much-despised Christ-killers are killing poor palestinians and have "STOLEN" their land. Hook, line, and sinker - you take it all in. Well, here's your soap opera unraveling right in front of you. Part of you screams in denial, the other part works hard on finding justifications - "umm. tham darn jews must be behind all this!"... yet at the end of the day it all comes down to simple truths which are revealed on daily basis. Tho, now they are more in your face. Perhaps its time to take your rose-colored glasses off and face the truth? No? just a thought... |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by EvilTree Not very good PR for the Lebanese army for killing civvies while trying to get at terrorists. Then again, civvies make good bullet shield for terrorists |
| quote: |
| Truce holds in Lebanon refugee camp By SCHEHEREZADE FARAMARZI, Associated Press Writer 2 hours, 2 minutes ago TRIPOLI, Lebanon - Hundreds of Palestinian civilians carrying their belongings in plastic bags trickled out of a besieged refugee camp Wednesday, taking advantage of a truce in fighting that mostly held overnight. About 15,000 � nearly half the camp's residents � fled Tuesday night and another 1,000 left Wednesday, officials said. Those fleeing reported bodies littering Nahr el-Bared's streets and scenes of blasted buildings and destruction. U.N. officials said the bodies of at least 20 civilians have been retrieved from the camp. It was unclear how long the truce would hold, and there were fears that allowing civilians out could be a prelude for a major showdown. The Lebanese government has said it's determined to uproot the militant Fatah Islam, and on Wednesday, the army reinforced its positions around Nahr el-Bared. A militant who identified himself as Fatah Islam's deputy leader told The Associated Press the group would never surrender and vowed to fight to the death if attacked. "We are ready to enter into a permanent cease-fire on condition we stay, military action against us is halted and life is allowed to return to normal in the camp," said the militant, who goes by the name Abu Hureira. He sat on the floor of a dimly lit building basement deep inside the camp, the entrance packed with canned food and fruit. "If they enter, we are ready. They can try but they won't be able to. They will face a massacre," he said, speaking with a Lebanese Arabic accent. Occasional gunshots were heard overnight, witnesses said. But the relative lull in fighting gave residents the opportunity to flee the battle-scared Nahr el-Bared. "It's very tense," said Rania Mustafa, 23, holding the hand of a child and carrying a baby in her arms. Other women carrying children were seen stepping over broken glass and garbage and walking around wrecked cars. A loose cow roamed on another street. Many of the fleeing refugees have moved to a nearby Palestinian refugee camp at Beddawi, where U.N. relief officials and local provided shelter, mattresses, food and water. Twenty-nine soldiers and at least 20 militants have been killed since the battle began Sunday in the heaviest internal fighting in Lebanon since the 1975-90 civil war. Taleb al-Salhani, a security officer with the U.N. agency for Palestinian refugees, said the bodies of 20 civilians � men, women and children � have been retrieved from the camp. The total number of civilian casualties remained unknown. The fighting raises the prospect that parts of Lebanon could become havens for terrorists training to attack the West � similar to lawless regions in Iraq and Afghanistan. The small country is home to some 215,000 Palestinian refugees who live in a dozen camps rife with armed groups and Islamic extremists, including Fatah Islam. A senior official of the radical Palestinian faction Islamic Jihad warned that a Lebanese army assault at Nahr el-Bared would trigger violence in other camps. A group of Palestinians in Lebanon's largest refugee camp, Ein el-Hilweh in the south, said they will form "Jihadi groups" to fight alongside Fatah Islam, according to an Internet statement posted Wednesday. The claim could not be independently verified, but it was posted on a Web site commonly used by Islamic extremists. "Your brothers announce structuring Jihadi groups in Ein el-Hilweh to respond to the dire atrocities in Nahr el-Bared refugee camp," the statement read. Fatah Islam's leader, Palestinian Shaker al-Absi, has been linked to the former head of al-Qaida in Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, and is believed to have recruited about 100 fighters, including militants from Saudi Arabia, Yemen and other Arab countries. The military's attack on the camp also has raised fears the fighting could destabilize Lebanon's uneasy balance among its many religious sects and factions. The U.S.-backed government already faces a domestic political crisis, with the Iranian- and Syrian-backed Hezbollah militant group campaigning for its removal. But so far, the opposition has supported the assault. The Shiite Muslims of Hezbollah deeply oppose Sunni militant groups like Fatah Islam, and the movement issued a statement stressing the military's duty to safeguard the country. The Bush administration also has backed Lebanese Prime Minister Fuad Saniora and has hinted that it suspected Syria's involvement. The White House has said the militants wanted to distract international attention from an effort at the U.N. to establish a tribunal to try suspects in the 2005 assassination of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri. Lebanese security officials accuse Syria of using Fatah Islam to destabilize Lebanon, a charge Damascus denies. Syria controlled Lebanon for decades until it was forced to withdraw its troops after Hariri's assassination. |
George, really - whatever. seriously. i don't give a sh!t, with all due respect as to what you think of my statements or how you interpret them. if I worried about every nitwit who thought he was the next greatest debater/champion of peoples' rights, I'd lose much beloved and needed sleep at night. Alas, I recently realized that I don't give a rat's ass about some nutcases that are so prevalent on these here forums. With all due respect, of course.
Feel free to attempt to elicit further reaction from me - I figure it's nice to have a hobby, the kind that keeps your chubby fingers hard at work and working out on your (possibly much worn-out) keyboard.
so, with that said - fire away! 
The Americans are flying in planeloads of ammunition for the Lebanese government, which has sort of announced its own war on terrorism, which, probably doesn't include Hezbollah.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by emc^2 George, really - whatever. seriously. i don't give a sh!t, |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Krypton The Americans are flying in planeloads of ammunition for the Lebanese government, which has sort of announced its own war on terrorism, which, probably doesn't include Hezbollah. |
OK what the hell?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18857073/
| quote: |
| TRIPOLI, Lebanon - Military aid began arriving Friday after the United States said it will rush supplies to the Lebanese army fighting al-Qaida-inspired Islamic militants barricaded inside a Palestinian refugee camp in the country�s north. Meanwhile, sporadic gunfire exchanges early Friday punctured the lull in the fighting as the Lebanese army continued to build up around the Nahr el-Bared refugee camp near the port city of Tripoli. The move appeared to be either a preparation to storm the camp � a maze of narrow streets and tightly packed residential buildings where hundreds of Fatah Islam militants are holed up � or a tightening of the siege to force them to surrender. Thousands of Palestinian refugees are also trapped inside. Two military transports landed at the Beirut airport Friday morning, spotted by many residents of the capital. The military refused to comment, apparently because of the sensitivity of the matter. Security officials, speaking on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to talk to the media, said that a United Arab Emirates air force plane had landed late Thursday with the first supplies. U.S. expedites shipment A Pentagon official said Thursday that the United States would provide ammunition and other equipment to the Lebanese army in a military airlift of eight planes. A U.S. military official said the Lebanese government had asked the U.S. to expedite a shipment of a broad range of equipment and ammunition already in the pipeline for delivery. Lebanese officials subsequently told Washington they needed the ammunition right away, said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue. All of the materials en route had previously been requested, the agreements were already in place, and they were in the delivery process, the official said. Although U.S. officials said the military aid to Lebanon had been agreed to before the fighting broke out this week, the speedy shipment Friday marked the first tangible U.S. backing of the Lebanese authorities in their fight with the militants. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on Thursday renewed the Bush administration�s strong support of the Lebanese government. �I certainly hope that the Lebanese government will be able to deal with these extremists,� Rice said. �It�s just another example of extremists in the Middle East who are trying to destabilize democratic governments.� U.S. military assistance was renewed after Syria withdrew troops from Lebanon in 2005, and increased after last year�s summer war between Lebanese Hezbollah militants and Israel. Hoping that a boosted army could eventually disarm Hezbollah, the U.S. has pledged $40 million in military aid. Lebanon�s 70,000-strong army is underarmed and overstretched, with army leaders complaining of a lack of heavy armor, anti-aircraft missiles and the absence of an air force. Fatal Islam leader threatens more violence At the camp, gunfire had grown heavier Thursday shortly after nightfall and continued on and off through early Friday, as both sides probe each other�s defenses. Troops have entrenched their positions around the camp but did not appear to be attempting to advance. Reinforcements from other regions are also arriving, mostly drawn from elite commando units. A deputy Fatah Islam leader threatened more violence if the army attacks Nahr el-Bared. Abu Hureira told the pan-Arab Al Hayat daily by telephone that �sleeper cells� in other Palestinian camps and elsewhere in Lebanon were awaiting word for a �violent response.� The fighting in Lebanon, which erupted Sunday when police raided suspected Fatah Islam hideouts in Tripoli while searching for men wanted in a bank robbery, has killed some 50 combatants and many civilians. Thousands of Palestinian civilians � mainly women and children � have fled the camp on the outskirts of this northern port city, but thousands still remain inside. Amid the swell of international support, Prime Minister Fuad Saniora vowed to wipe out Fatah Islam. In a televised address Thursday, he said that Fatah Islam was �a terrorist organization ... attempting to ride on the suffering and the struggle of the Palestinian people.� �We will work to root out and strike at terrorism, but we will embrace and protect our brothers in the camps,� Saniora said, insisting Lebanon has no quarrel with the 400,000 Palestinian refugees living in the country. Under a 1969 agreement, Lebanese military stays out of the camps that are run by the Palestinians. 'Fight until the last moment' But Abu Salim Taha, a spokesman for the militants, repeated late Thursday that Fatah Islam would never surrender or flee but �fight until the last moment, the last drop of blood and the last bullet.� Storming the Nahr el-Bared camp � a densely built-up town of narrow streets on the Mediterranean coast � could mean rough urban fighting for Lebanese troops and further death and destruction for the civilians inside. It also could spark unrest in Lebanon�s 11 other Palestinian refugee camps. Although Palestinian factions have dissociated themselves from Fatah Islam, refugees in other camps, which are rife with armed groups, are angry over army bombardments that have partially destroyed Nahr el-Bared. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Marc Summers OK what the hell? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18857073/ I like Lebanon. I just don't understand why the US is helping them now militarily, when there was just a war between israel...?? What happens if there is another Israel/Lebanon conflict? Will the US switch sides? |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by George Smiley Why on Earth would it include Hizballah?!?!?!?! |
Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.