George Walker Bush the Lesser, Emperor-Aspiring of the Known Universe, Decider, Defender of Democracy, Liberator, Light of Lights, Overmind Most Powerful, etc. etc. visited Albania this weekend. It's one of the few corners of the world where he is not reviled, mostly because Imperial troops (albeit under his predecessor) occupied the Serbian province of Kosovo eight years ago and made it safe for Albanian ethnic cleansing. In fact, His Glorious Serendipity's visit to Tirana fell on the 8th anniversary of the armistice that ended the 1999 invasion.
As a propaganda organization affiliated with the Empire reports, His Elevated Majesty told Albanian Prime Minister Berisha
quote:
�You get your diplomats working with Russians and EU diplomats to see if there is not a common ground,� said Bush, indicating that if there no compromise on Kosovo�s independence the US may act on its own toward the region.
�If you end up being in a position where you don�t, at some point of time, sooner rather than later, you got to say: that�s enough � Kosovo is independent,� said Bush.
Commenting on this pronouncement by His Hegemonic Enormity, Serbian Prime Minister Kostunica said that the Empire "has a right to support certain states and peoples in accordance with its interests, but not by making them a present of something which doesn't belong to it... The U.S. has to find some way of showing its favor and love for the Albanians other than presenting them with Serbian territories."
Leaving aside for the moment the question of whether Albania and the Albanians have done anything to deserve Imperial favor and love (ha!), Kostunica has a point here. Even His Most Worshipful Greatness cannot give away what is not his (occupation does not mean ownership, see), so Kosovo is right out. However, he could reward his Albanian vassals with the State of New Jersey. From what I hear, it would not be all that hard.
So is Bushi pushing for one more war, the one his putrid predecessor claimed to have won the same way he claims to be winning in his own wars
Posted by Magnetonium on Jun-13-2007 22:16:
... and this will become a HUGE precedent for other indendence movements all over the world: Karabach, Transdnistria, Abkhazia, South Ossetia, etc. etc. etc. etc. while is quite fine and dandy with Russia except for the hypocrisy of US and ignoring that.
You see, Russia is less of a hypocrite on this issue because recognizing independence of Kosovo is on hand with them. They have more to gain from it. But we instead decide to KEEP INTEGRITY of the countries and try to use political and economical dialogue to achieve some sort of regional self-government and autonomy. Giving Kosovo independence will give a new rise to wars all over Eastern Europe. So much for world security, democracy and peace ...
Posted by Q5echo on Jun-15-2007 06:18:
the E-Jihadi is back with a vengeance!
keep up Al-Queera's work Erdega. doin a bang up job
Posted by erdega on Jun-15-2007 10:01:
quote:
Originally posted by Q5echo
the E-Jihadi is back with a vengeance!
keep up Al-Queera's work Erdega. doin a bang up job
wtf ?
Why don't you answer in this thread on AQ/neocon alliance?
http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=421779&forumid=66&s=
Who created and armed AQ?
Who let them be so they can steal Iraq oil fields ?
US of course and it's one of the reasons why they are thriving in US occupied lands
They claim to be fighting against "Islamic extemism" but How does one explain the neocon support for albanian muslim, chechnian muslim, their war on secular Iraqi regime?
There are somewhat logical answers once you realize their motivations
Posted by erdega on Jun-15-2007 10:12:
quote:
Originally posted by Magnetonium
... and this will become a HUGE precedent for other indendence movements all over the world: Karabach, Transdnistria, Abkhazia, South Ossetia, etc. etc. etc. etc. while is quite fine and dandy with Russia except for the hypocrisy of US and ignoring that.
You see, Russia is less of a hypocrite on this issue because recognizing independence of Kosovo is on hand with them. They have more to gain from it. But we instead decide to KEEP INTEGRITY of the countries and try to use political and economical dialogue to achieve some sort of regional self-government and autonomy. Giving Kosovo independence will give a new rise to wars all over Eastern Europe. So much for world security, democracy and peace ...
There is nothing legal or logical with US policy, it's a train that left the station long time ago and they are behaving like a bandit on a run, hijacking people and stuff and making swift rules.
They are supported by imperialist regime in Washington and by extension London , Brussels. Albanians are just a weapon for them. Their primary goal is to destroy Serbia to insure hegemony in the area that they call balkan. Second call is to insure islamic domination in the area. There is a lot of parallel of middle east and " balkan" , it's just that main actors change their roles but not their intentions
Posted by Q5echo on Jun-15-2007 10:34:
quote:
Originally posted by erdega
Who created and armed AQ?
you mean the Afghan Mujahadeen?
Saudis, Britain, Pakistan, Egypt, Yemen the list goes on.
quote:
Who let them be so they can steal Iraq oil fields ?
only you and the other propagandists are accusing of stealing oil.
i mean, in the absence of any evidence of your claim, real people, smart people, know how the free oil market operates and you haven't a logical leg to stand on my friend. sorry.
your nothing but an E-Jihadi doing work for the Islamists, spreading propaganda.
quote:
They claim to be fighting against "Islamic extemism" but How does one explain the neocon support for albanian muslim, chechnian muslim, their war on secular Iraqi regime?
i would guess one has little to do with the other seeing as how it wasn't a neocon, or any neocons that went into Kosovo. Chenyia? c'mon.
quote:
There are somewhat logical answers once you realize their motivations
not even somewhat.
Posted by Dupz on Jun-15-2007 11:00:
Irritating that Bush has put his nose in this one. My opinion on this one is that it's a strategic move against the Kremlin (who will veto any resolution to grant Kosovo independance) in light of this new missle defense "cold war" thing. Bush is just stroking his diplomatic appendage.
How funny is it that he got pick-pocketed when he was giving high-fives to the locals in Tirana. Just goes to show that Albania will warmly greet the Americans, only when they have something to gain from it. Once/if Kosovo gains independance, watch them turn their backs.
Posted by Fir3start3r on Jun-15-2007 15:51:
quote:
Originally posted by Q5echo
you mean the Afghan Mujahadeen?
Saudis, Britain, Pakistan, Egypt, Yemen the list goes on.
only you and the other propagandists are accusing of stealing oil.
i mean, in the absence of any evidence of your claim, real people, smart people, know how the free oil market operates and you haven't a logical leg to stand on my friend. sorry.
your nothing but an E-Jihadi doing work for the Islamists, spreading propaganda.
LOL @ E-Jihadi...
Should we break out the, "No Blood for Oil" E-sign? Posted by Q5echo on Jun-16-2007 03:09:
quote:
Originally posted by Fir3start3r
LOL @ E-Jihadi...
wish it were, but it's not mine
i read somewhere that Islamist are recruiting sympathizers young and old to infiltrate music, youth and sports forums and spread their disease. seriously. they were refered to as "E-jihadis"
i'm not really saying Erdega is one or that the article has any credibility but it seemed appropriate.
Posted by Kapedano on Jun-16-2007 04:31:
Who let them be so they can steal Iraq oil fields ?
US of course and it's one of the reasons why they are thriving in US occupied lands
They claim to be fighting against "Islamic extemism" but How does one explain the neocon support for albanian muslim, chechnian muslim, their war on secular Iraqi regime?
There are somewhat logical answers once you realize their motivations
Albanians aren't really Muslim though. Considering how Albanians were in a atheist communistic regime, calling them Muslims is a bit out of line. Statistics are out of date by the way. Albanians are Muslim in paper.
Anyways, Kosovars do tend to be more religious , but even then, they are the most supportive of American people not because Bush is in power, but because if it wasn't for the Americans (Clinton), you would see almost 1.5 million people dead. Now, we can stay here all day long and argue if Kosovo should be independent, but it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to realize that ethnic cleansing is wrong.
Posted by Kapedano on Jun-16-2007 04:35:
quote:
Originally posted by Dupz
How funny is it that he got pick-pocketed when he was giving high-fives to the locals in Tirana. Just goes to show that Albania will warmly greet the Americans, only when they have something to gain from it. Once/if Kosovo gains independance, watch them turn their backs.
I think you need to get your facts straight.
Being a small country supporting the US in Europe can get you in a lot of trouble, especially when your neighbors hate them. Thats why this thing is even talked about. Make Albanians look like thiefs.
Posted by erdega on Jun-16-2007 07:12:
quote:
Originally posted by Q5echo
you mean the Afghan Mujahadeen?
Saudis, Britain, Pakistan, Egypt, Yemen the list goes on.
Originally posted by Q5echo
only you and the other propagandists are accusing of stealing oil.
I agree and oil is too easy, let's talk about armed occupation and domination of the region as clinton democrats and their nato allies did to balkans.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Q5echo
your nothing but an E-Jihadi doing work for the Islamists, spreading propaganda.
by now you should know better than that
quote:
Originally posted by Q5echo
i would guess one has little to do with the other seeing as how it wasn't a neocon, or any neocons that went into Kosovo. Chenyia? c'mon.
I would agree with that partially and in normal times it is against their agenda but a good number of neocons like Perle, Wolfowitz were very prominent in both of those conflicts supporting muslim side and both gained infamy in iraq war
Posted by erdega on Jun-16-2007 08:22:
quote:
Originally posted by Kapedan
Albanians aren't really Muslim though. Considering how Albanians were in a atheist communistic regime, calling them Muslims is a bit out of line. Statistics are out of date by the way. Albanians are Muslim in paper.
You say that Albania is only muslim on paper but if we look at the human achievements mark in culture , sports and science Albania is much more comparable with undeveloped islamic country like Afghanistan than any european country.
In Albania itself , dozens of wahabi Saudi funded mosques have been built in recent years while most jews and christians have been forced to flee the country. It is well known that Al Qaida set up militant camps in albania which was their main base of operation for europe and used mainly in the aggression on Serbia and OBL himself opened a "charity" there in the 90's. http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/bomb162.htm
It is not known what happened with them afterwards but tellingly albania has become one of dumping grounds for "undesirable" muslims that US had captured and/or processed in Guantanamo and other camps and prisons.
Originally posted by Kapedan
Anyways, Kosovars do tend to be more religious , but even then, they are the most supportive of American people not because Bush is in power, but because if it wasn't for the Americans (Clinton), you would see almost 1.5 million people dead. Now, we can stay here all day long and argue if Kosovo should be independent, but it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to realize that ethnic cleansing is wrong.
Clinto and his buddies did it to "help and save muslims" . This was 1999 but seems like a century ago now . As was repeated later in the war on Iraq, americans are really apt at making up anything to go to war when they feel like it. One would hope they would change their behaviour for their sake at least.
But speaking of religion and ethnic cleansig, let's deal with facts such as dozens of medieval churches bombed and destroyed and facts like medieval serbian towns with no serbs left and thousands of albanian squatters now occupying those towns where there is no economic life of anything but plenty of criminality.
Anyway, in the last century alone albanians have warshipped all types of tyrants and dictators from mussolini, hitler, stalin, mao to osama and now bush and at one time or another they were all supportive of them . That doesn't make them pro anything but sycophants of foreign powers and it really doesn't say anything about albanians than we already know but is telling of those that court them
Posted by Kapedano on Jun-16-2007 14:05:
I was born there, I lived there. I know what I am talking about. Sure there are muslims, but not as in any other muslim nation. There are people that really believe, but that is only 5 % of the population.
the CIA gave the Mujahadeen tactics on how to fight Russian armor and formations,
satelite imagery detailing Russian formations and supply lines,
Stinger missles, which up until then the Mujahadeen were being slaughterded by Russian Hind-24 attack helo's. and in the end the Mujahadeen were slaughtering the Hind's with the Stingers,
the cash was being used through Pakistan and other countries to by small arms and supplies and to buy off tribes and other people.
none of that shit is secret.
thats it. what does it matter now? all it mattered then was to defeat the Russians. yet people like you NEVER fault Bin Laden's twisted ideology.
people like you are more or less caught up in the romance of the story and will never fault Bin Laden for anything. but you have no problem spreading in-credible crap that no one believes and can't be substantiated.
nowhere and nobody credible says the CIA ever met Bin Laden during the Afghan war.
Posted by Q5echo on Jun-16-2007 21:11:
quote:
Originally posted by erdega
let's deal with facts such as dozens of medieval churches bombed and destroyed
what are you a cultural anthropologist now?
Kapedan is right. NATO saved a couple million from being slaughtered.
you obviously don't give a damn cause it doesn't fit your mold.
Posted by erdega on Jun-17-2007 01:41:
quote:
Originally posted by Q5echo
the CIA gave the Mujahadeen tactics on how to fight Russian armor and formations,
satelite imagery detailing Russian formations and supply lines,
Stinger missles, which up until then the Mujahadeen were being slaughterded by Russian Hind-24 attack helo's. and in the end the Mujahadeen were slaughtering the Hind's with the Stingers,
the cash was being used through Pakistan and other countries to by small arms and supplies and to buy off tribes and other people.
none of that shit is secret.
thats it. what does it matter now? all it mattered then was to defeat the Russians. yet people like you NEVER fault Bin Laden's twisted ideology.
people like you are more or less caught up in the romance of the story and will never fault Bin Laden for anything. but you have no problem spreading in-credible crap that no one believes and can't be substantiated.
nowhere and nobody credible says the CIA ever met Bin Laden during the Afghan war.
John Cooley, a former journalist with the US ABC television network and author of Unholy Wars: Afghanistan, America and International Terrorism, has revealed that Muslims recruited in the US for the mujaheddin were sent to Camp Peary, the CIA's spy training camp in Virginia, where young Afghans, Arabs from Egypt and Jordan, and even some African-American �black Muslims� were taught �sabotage skills�.
Between 1978 and 1992, the US government poured at least US$6 billion (some estimates range as high as $20 billion) worth of arms, training and funds to prop up the mujaheddin factions. Other Western governments, as well as oil-rich Saudi Arabia, kicked in as much again. Wealthy Arab fanatics, like Osama bin Laden, provided millions more.
Washington's policy in Afghanistan was shaped by US President Jimmy Carter's national security advisor, Zbigniew Brzezinski, and was continued by his successors. His plan went far beyond simply forcing Soviet troops to withdraw; rather it aimed to foster an international movement to spread Islamic fanaticism into the Muslim Central Asian Soviet republics to destabilize the Soviet Union.
Washington's favoured mujaheddin faction was one of the most extreme, led by Gulbuddin Hekmatyar. The West's distaste for terrorism did not apply to this unsavory �freedom fighter�. Hekmatyar was notorious in the 1970's for throwing acid in the faces of women who refused to wear the veil.
After the mujaheddin took Kabul in 1992, Hekmatyar's forces rained US-supplied missiles and rockets on that city � killing at least 2000 civilians � until the new government agreed to give him the post of prime minister. Osama bin Laden was a close associate of Hekmatyar and his faction.
In 1995, the former director of the CIA's operation in Afghanistan was unrepentant about the explosion in the flow of drugs: �Our main mission was to do as much damage as possible to the Soviets... There was a fallout in terms of drugs, yes. But the main objective was accomplished. The Soviets left Afghanistan.�
According to Ahmed Rashid, a correspondent for the Far Eastern Economic Review, in 1986 CIA chief William Casey committed CIA support to a long-standing ISI proposal to recruit from around the world to join the Afghan jihad. At least 100,000 Islamic militants flocked to Pakistan between 1982 and 1992 (some 60,000 attended fundamentalist schools in Pakistan without necessarily taking part in the fighting).
The November 1, 1998, British Independent reported that one of those charged with the 1998 bombings of US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, Ali Mohammed, had trained �bin Laden's operatives� in 1989.
These �operatives� were recruited at the al Kifah Refugee Centre in Brooklyn, New York, given paramilitary training in the New York area and then sent to Afghanistan with US assistance to join Hekmatyar's forces. Mohammed was a member of the US army's elite Green Berets.
The program, reported the Independent, was part of a Washington-approved plan called � Operation Cyclone�.
The Independent also suggested that Shiekh Omar Abdel-Rahman, an Egyptian religious leader also jailed for the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center, was also part of Operation Cyclone. He entered the US in 1990 with the CIA's approval. A confidential CIA report concluded that the agency was �partly culpable� for the 1993 World Trade Center blast, the Independent reported.
Osama's military and business adventures in Afghanistan had the blessing of the bin Laden dynasty and the reactionary Saudi Arabian regime. His close working relationship with MAK also meant that the CIA was fully aware of his activities.
Milt Bearden, the CIA's station chief in Pakistan from 1986 to 1989, admitted to the January 24, 2000, New Yorker that while he never personally met bin Laden, �Did I know that he was out there? Yes, I did ... [Guys like] bin Laden were bringing $20-$25 million a month from other Saudis and Gulf Arabs to underwrite the war. And that is a lot of money. It's an extra $200-$300 million a year. And this is what bin Laden did.�
Tom Carew, a former British SAS soldier who secretly fought for the mujaheddin told the August 13, 2000, British Observer, �The Americans were keen to teach the Afghans the techniques of urban terrorism � car bombing and so on � so that they could strike at the Russians in major towns ... Many of them are now using their knowledge and expertise to wage war on everything they hate.�
Bin Laden has simply continued to do the job he was asked to do in Afghanistan during the 1980's � fund, feed and train mercenaries. All that has changed is his primary customer. Then it was the ISI and, behind the scenes, the CIA. Today, his services are utilized primarily by the reactionary Taliban regime.
In an August 28, 1998, report posted on MSNBC, Michael Moran quotes Senator Orrin Hatch, who was a senior member of the Senate Intelligence Committee which approved US dealings with the mujaheddin, as saying he would make �the same call again�, even knowing what bin Laden would become.
�It was worth it. Those were very important, pivotal matters that played an important role in the downfall of the Soviet Union.�
Hatch today is one of the most gung-ho voices demanding military retaliation.
The only tactics that cia gave them was to not negotiate
Posted by erdega on Jun-17-2007 02:16:
quote:
Originally posted by Q5echo
what are you a cultural anthropologist now?
Kapedan is right. NATO saved a couple million from being slaughtered.
you obviously don't give a damn cause it doesn't fit your mold.
because Nato is what ?
Purpotedly a defensive force that has become an aggressive one
and they have imperial designs on the region so it's imperative to destroy and kill while presenting themselves as fighting those things for their home media back home . This macabre scenario was repeated elsewhere including iraq
And why are you cherry picking my arguments, church burning is part it, AQ camps is part of it, saudi mosques, cia support
Posted by Fir3start3r on Jun-17-2007 02:46:
quote:
Originally posted by erdega
because Nato is what ?
Purpotedly a defensive force that has become an aggressive one
and they have imperial designs on the region so it's imperative to destroy and kill while presenting themselves as fighting those things for their home media back home . This macabre scenario was repeated elsewhere including iraq
And why are you cherry picking my arguments, church burning is part it, AQ camps is part of it, saudi mosques, cia support
What?
Is everything a conspiracy to create some great 'empire' thats just around the corner waiting to enslave mankind?
How the heck would YOU know if NATA has, 'imperial designs' or not?
Did they send you a memo that didn't quite make it out to anyone else?
Posted by Q5echo on Jun-17-2007 03:03:
quote:
Originally posted by erdega
Purpotedly a defensive force that has become an aggressive one
in the absence of a Warsaw Pact and in the interests of detente', your're right. but ask yourself, who are they aggressive against?
quote:
and they have imperial designs on the region so it's imperative to destroy and kill while presenting themselves as fighting those things for their home media back home.
thats is your imagination at work.
quote:
This macabre scenario was repeated elsewhere including iraq
NATO has refused to go into Iraq. well within those member state's rights
quote:
And why are you cherry picking my arguments, church burning is part it, AQ camps is part of it, saudi mosques, cia support
and i would argue its a part of war, not some diabolical scheme of imperial hubris.
Posted by Kapedano on Jun-17-2007 16:39:
Military camps in Albania? You are nuts man! Its not worth it to have an argument with you because you do not understand anything about Albania.
Posted by erdega on Jun-23-2007 23:58:
quote:
Originally posted by Fir3start3r
What?
Is everything a conspiracy to create some great 'empire' thats just around the corner waiting to enslave mankind?
How the heck would YOU know if NATA has, 'imperial designs' or not?
Did they send you a memo that didn't quite make it out to anyone else?
Of course they have imperial designs because they use force only and then build their military bases , they break every conceivable international law above all national sovereingty and employ complete double standards. How do they do that ?
First comes sanctions, then satanization of suppoesed leadeers by mainstream media and then when the time is "right" then comes military aggression and occupation.
Posted by erdega on Jun-24-2007 00:24:
quote:
Originally posted by Q5echo
in the absence of a Warsaw Pact and in the interests of detente', your're right. but ask yourself, who are they aggressive against?
They are aggressive against anyone, real or imagined, that stands in their way of hegemonic imperial concquest or that they might gain political advantage on as in championing balkan muslims while aggressing and occupying the middle eastern mostly muslim and even secular states.
quote:
Originally posted by Q5echo
thats is your imagination at work.
Don't tell me about imagination, that only works in Washington, London and Brussels to brainwash the masses and cook up grandiose military adventures. "Genocide" , "WMD" , "Democracy" , all cooked up in the imperial broth
quote:
Originally posted by Q5echo
NATO has refused to go into Iraq. well within those member state's rights
Yes because they are cowardly and afraid to confront a real enemy that is more brutal than them. Credit given to US at least, they are willing to kill and die for their policies unlike most euros . Of course US/UK have substituted some of their nato subordinates with far flung US clients from Australia , Japan , Korea to Georgia and Salvador and so on
quote:
Originally posted by Q5echo
and i would argue its a part of war, not some diabolical scheme of imperial hubris.
church burning, destruction of infrastructure and alliances with OBL works for you as "part of the war". Well you are not alone as that is prevalent in the current imperial culture, ends justify means, occupation is liberty, war is peace, terrorism is war and no lie is too big as long as the suckers swallow it and die for it.
