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-- Mapping Ecler Nuo4 to Ableton...

Posted by DiscoStew on Jun-19-2007 15:44:

Mapping Ecler Nuo4 to Ableton...

It works great with a pair of CDJs and Tech-12's on channels 1 and 4. I am reserving channels 2 and 3 for Ableton channels. However, I am having trouble figuring out how to map everything to get the functionality that I am looking for. I can get the effects working just fine, but the basic mixing functions don't do what I want to do. For the sake of simplicity, let's say that I have the following hypothetical setup:

I am using Ableton 6. I use the Session View for live performances. I have two audio channels in the Session View; let's call them A and B. I have the audio from A coming into Channel 2 on the Nuo and B coming into Channel 3. However, in order to have the fader and EQ knobs control Ableton's fader and EQ knobs, I have to flip the switch on the mixer (see below) from line in (HL) to MIDI.

When I do that though, it cuts off the audio coming into that channel. This presents me with two problems when it comes to cueing tracks so I can hear them in my headphones to preview them and adjust my EQ's:

1. If changing Channel 2 or 3 to enable midi out cuts off the sound to that track, how can I cue the track in Ableton so I can hear it in my headphones and still have midi functionality so i can control the EQ's in Ableton?

2. If I have my faders on Channels 2 and 3 mapping to the volume on A and B in Ableton, respectively, if I have the fader all the way down, Ableton will not send any sound for that track. Similarly, if I have the fader up, it will send sound for that track, but that sound will also be heard in my mix. So, how do I have Ableton send sound for a track so I can hear it in my headphones but not have it played over the master out?

Thanks!!!

Posted by SPAWNmaster on Jun-19-2007 15:57:

There are guides on ALDJ specifically for what you're looking for.

What you can do if you have an audio interface with more than 4 channels (ideally 6 out) is run 1/2 through A into CH 2. run 3/4 through B into CH 3.

From here you can set up cueing a few different ways depending on whats easiest for you.

1) run 5/6 as your Cue channel (click the "solo" button on the master to convert to "cue" this is covered IN THE MANUAL!) and run that to CH 4 or 1 on your mixer...this sacrifices a mixer channel however.

2) run 5/6 as above to setup cueing, but use your headphones on your audio interface (could use an additional pair of headphones i suppose). This is a bit awkward and unecessary but it's up to you.

Now i'm not sure if this is how your setup is or if you have other CDJ's and whatnot you use as well however take it from me...my personal experience using 4 CDJs + ableton all on my DJM800...in the long run you might want to mix IN ableton and simply have CH 2 be your cue channel and CH 4 be your master output from ableton.

If you don't have any other gear you need to make way for, then I'd have to recommend not mapping your nuo's channel faders to ableton faders, to take advantage of the hardware curves and sound because otherwise you'd might as well just use a MIDI controller rather than a mixer.

Hope all that was clear.
And please read the manual.

cheers,
Andrew

edit: I just saw in your post you have other equipment such as TT's so I HIGHLY recommend using 1 channel for CUEing and the other channel for the master output from ableton.

Posted by DiscoStew on Jun-19-2007 17:06:

Thanks for the advice. I'll try that out.

Posted by Soundwerks on Jun-19-2007 23:36:

I'm no expert with Ableton, so I didnt really get most of your original question....so if I'm totally wrong here, just let me know

Instead of putting the audio from Ableton into the H-LINE's on channels 2/3, you should have the OUTPUT and CUE going into the COMPUTER IN and PFL in on the back of the mixer. This way, whatever you are mixing in Ableton itself will come thru the audio on the mixer itself (on its 5th "channel", in the middle)

No?

Posted by Soundwerks on Jun-19-2007 23:38:

BTW--theres new files for mapping Ableton 6 on the ecler site

www.eclerdjdivision.com in the downloads section.

Posted by AnomalyConcept on Jun-20-2007 07:37:

Channels 2 & 3's MIDI and mix mode are mutually exclusive. =/

You do get cool blue lights when in MIDI mode, though. =P

I played around with Ableton once upon a time, and I had two channels corresponding to channels 2 & 3 on the mixer. I created EQ-3 for each track mapped to the EQ knobs and track volume to the channel faders.

I didn't get so far as to map effects (as I don't know how to use them, really), but it was possible to mix with the above setup.

I still prefer to use the actual mixer hardware rather than using MIDI, though. You still get the center 'strip' for MIDI control.

Also, thanks to Soundwerks for the Input 5/PFL tip.

Posted by DiscoStew on Jun-20-2007 12:58:

quote:
Originally posted by AnomalyConcept
Channels 2 & 3's MIDI and mix mode are mutually exclusive. =/

Yeah, that part is super weak.

What I ended up doing is sending the audio to channels 1&4 and controlling the midi with 2&3. That way, i can go fader down on 1 and fader up on 2 to hear the track cueued in channel 1.

This works out pretty well, but I'm finding that the EQ's in ableton kind of really suck.

I might end up using the Nuo to control effects only.

Posted by SPAWNmaster on Jun-20-2007 13:37:

quote:
Originally posted by DJChrisB

This works out pretty well, but I'm finding that the EQ's in ableton kind of really suck.

Well you shouldnt be using EQ3 in ableton its garbage. Use EQ8, you can model it after any of your favorite mixer's EQ's. for example, I'm used to the EQ frequency spec of my DJM800 so I've modelled EQ8 after the DJM800's eq's. Or you can design your own custom eq's which is the beauty of it. If you'd like ableton to use the same EQ model as your nuo4 i suggest looking up the frequency spec and curves in the back of your mixer's manual.

Posted by DiscoStew on Jun-20-2007 13:43:

quote:
Originally posted by SPAWNmaster
Well you shouldnt be using EQ3 in ableton its garbage. Use EQ8, you can model it after any of your favorite mixer's EQ's. for example, I'm used to the EQ frequency spec of my DJM800 so I've modelled EQ8 after the DJM800's eq's. Or you can design your own custom eq's which is the beauty of it. If you'd like ableton to use the same EQ model as your nuo4 i suggest looking up the frequency spec and curves in the back of your mixer's manual.

Tried using EQ8, modelling it after the specs on my DJM-600, but for some reason the it made the audio sound like it was in a tin can when any of the EQ's were turned up. Adjusting the Q settings took care of it a bit, but still not great. Any suggestions?

Posted by SPAWNmaster on Jun-20-2007 14:15:

quote:
Originally posted by DJChrisB
Tried using EQ8, modelling it after the specs on my DJM-600, but for some reason the it made the audio sound like it was in a tin can when any of the EQ's were turned up. Adjusting the Q settings took care of it a bit, but still not great. Any suggestions?

Q is universally known to represent resonance, so essentially you had the eq acting like a filter effect. regardless, if you still don't find EQ8 to be satisfactory i'm not sure what you could be doing wrong. make sure your scale is atleast 200% to accurately model the DJM series.

Posted by DiscoStew on Jun-20-2007 15:19:

quote:
Originally posted by SPAWNmaster
Q is universally known to represent resonance, so essentially you had the eq acting like a filter effect.

Right, got that. But couldn't get that filtered sound to go away completely.

quote:
make sure your scale is atleast 200% to accurately model the DJM series.

I'll give that a try. I was able to figure out the rest from the technical specs, this is probalby the one setting that i neglected to adjust. Thanks!