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Beginner hardware advice

Hi all,

I've looked pretty extensively through all the tutorial threads, so don't say "do a search!". Looking for recommendations on some hardware, and your help is much appreciated.

Basically, I've been producing for a couple of years now on computer, with a little (but not much) success. I've suddenly realised that tooling round on a computer isn't really all that appealing to me. I'd love some buttons to push, and some knobs to twiddle.

Looking for a BASIC keyboard/synthesizer, which won't take three years to learn, but still with some nice settings and effects to explore. My price range is about $600, but I guess I'd be willing to spend twice that in order to get something decent.

I produce all kinds of things, from Psy-Trance to downtempo Mylo-style music and house, but on the whole, I'm producing mostly trance and progressive round 130-135 BPM.

I'm not necessarily even looking to record the results from whatever new machine I buy, just looking for something which I can plug into my mixer and fool around on, without a computer or any peripherals, though eventually I will probably want to sequence into Ableton or something, so this capability would be nice.

Please go ahead and hit me with some suggestions, and try not to be too biased. Thanking in advance.

Do you have a keyboard currently? Try starting with a basic midi keyboard and go into ableton if you havent already. Also make sure you have some good soft synths, what do you have currently in the software department?

This going to sound really harsh, but if you can't get results your happy with from ableton and a few choice synths (or at least results where you can see where your going) then investing in hardware is probably a waste of money and won't help you.

To answer you original question, I think you probably want either a korg triton of some sort or a roland phantom. They come in various flavours but I think most are more expensive than your figure. They are workstations which sounds like what you want. Oh yeah, or a yamaha motif... haven't tried that one personally...

Thanks.

Not looking for a midi controller though. Looking for proper synth or sampler, which doesn't require a computer to make noises.

edit: just doing a bit of research; I guess I'm looking for something like the Micro Korg, Novation X-Station, Korg ESX1 or Korg EMX1. Suggestions?

You're going to have to work with a computer at some point. Just having a hardware synth won't allow you to make better tracks.
You NEED to use a sequencer. Sure, there are hardware sequencers, grooveboxes, samplers etc, but they don't even come near the flexibility and power of software.
You need to spend up to ten or more times the price to come near what you get with software.
And if you worry about soundquality, there isn't really a difference anymore.
Most hardware synths today are actually software in a hardware shell. You're better off just buying a good midi controller and VSTis.

I'm not looking to make better tracks with hardware, it's that I don't enjoy using a computer.

You know how people with guitars sit down and just jam, without having any intention of recording the results or even writing a song?

That's what I want to do.

If I'm still enjoying that in a few months, I'll move onto, yes, as you said, sequencing the results in Abelton and get my hands on some soft-synths. Computers are unavoidable; I know that all too well!

p.s most of my experience with producing has been with FL, which I think sounds kind of amateurish, though in the right hands it can do well (Ozgur Can, Guyver). However, I love the layout of FL, and ease of use. I find Abelton a real pain in the arse to use, but I'm resigned to the fact that I will have to learn the ins and outs of the program in the next year or so.

i'm not trying to be a smart ass... but what exactly "made you realise" computers are not for you?

look at what you're saying with a bit of emotional intelligence. have you actually played around with a number of these said keyboards and produced a finished product? my guess is no, because if you had, you would know what you need to buy and wouldn't be asking us. don't be like most idiots and get defensive; be smart and seriously think about this, because you're going to lose a lot of money if you don't.

anyhow! if you honestly think this is where you're headed, you could go for some of the korg keyboard workstations etc. tritons and so on are a reasonably all-inclusive sort of systm.

however, you need to realise this mentality is really going to hinder the development of your music. anyone who intends to master anything in life has to approach the idea without setting preconcieved notions and convictions that will do little but limit themselves like this.

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm i'm not trying to be a smart ass... but what exactly "made you realise" computers are not for you?

It's not that they are "not for me", it's the fact that I already use a computer 12 hours a day, and frankly, sitting down for another 2 hours when I get home to make music isn't an appealing thought. I already have constant back, neck and shoulder problems from computers. Also, as I said, I like the feel of "real" buttons. I played some piano today and I'd forgotten how great it was as opposed to using a mouse and screen.

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm look at what you're saying with a bit of emotional intelligence. have you actually played around with a number of these said keyboards and produced a finished product? my guess is no, because if you had, you would know what you need to buy and wouldn't be asking us. don't be like most idiots and get defensive; be smart and seriously think about this, because you're going to lose a lot of money if you don't.

Point taken. Obviously, no, I've never used a synth. I'm not worried about the cash factor. I work full-time and have a lot of disposable income, but thanks for your concern (seriously...that wasn't sarcastic.)

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm however, you need to realise this mentality is really going to hinder the development of your music. anyone who intends to master anything in life has to approach the idea without setting preconcieved notions and convictions that will do little but limit themselves like this.

Again, thanks for your concern, but I'm not being narrow minded. I fully intend to pursue production via computer and other means when I have the available time, however I would just like to see how a synth would go for now.

EDM doesn't work like other genres where you sit down and jam. You need to think about it a different way. If you're committed to this course you probably want a piano, not a synth at all. Its quite clear that you really don't know what your talking about, which isn't a bad thing, we all start somewhere, but its a bad thing when you think your about to spend a lot of money on stuff you don't need. Do your research, download ableton and some synths, and try them. If your into FL Then use it instead, but you'll find ableton easier I think

It seems like your saying you've never even used a soft synth? I mean really, you need to try and know a bit more about what your talking about before you start blowing big money...

Ok, now I'm starting to get a little bit angry (sorry).

The money is not an issue.

I hear what you're saying about EDM not being the kind of music you can use to "jam" with, however a few years back I used to sit for hours in front of that old program called Hammerhead and just make loops without any intention of recording, and same goes for FL and Abelton.

I've used soft synths enough to have at least a small grasp on them (2 years) and I've had a copy of Abelton for about 8 months now.

Again, I appreciate all this concern, it's touching that strangers on the internet care so much about my wallet, but I think you're all thinking from the point of view of people who have the intention of creating proper, polished tracks for others to listen to.

I'm still a complete baby with production and just want to fool around; not concerned about results at this stage.

OK fine. Heres my wishlist:

Access virus
Roland V synth
Korg Radius
Korg Triton
Roland phantom
Waldorf Q
Nord lead
Dave smith poly evolver

Now spend 20 something grand American. All of those synths are great and can cover just about any sound you want, but all of them together? Now thats got the furniture factor. If grabbing heaps of gear makes you happy then go for it, I hope you get what you want out of it.
Sorry if I offended you, if you have 2 years experience with software, then you probably know plenty about it, this wasn't that clear initially. I still think you need a computer and that harware won't help you, but if your wallet can handle it, then like I said, have fun.

some vintage military radio equalizers and a reel to reel tape recorder.

I can relate to your wanting to play with real keyboards even though I actually made the inverse of the move you're wanting to make, having been a live keyboardist in a band now relegated to a laptop in my study at home.

I've got a somewhat modest keyboard (a non-Korg, non-Roland, non-Moog) called the Alesis QS6. I think you said something about a $600 price range. I got mine for $250 at a Detroit pawn shop. Tritons are $1000+ as are most name-brand keyboards. Only advantage of name-brands is they don't go out of business so if it breaks, someone can fix it.

If you want to be able to have your keyboard play multiple parts including the one you're playing and others you played and recorded previously, it needs to have high polyphony. My Alesis has 64 voice polyphony meaning that it could play probably as much out of it as you could possibly mix together on a sequencer. Most old-school keyboards had more like 4 or 8 voice polyphony.

You can get up to 16 tracks playing at the same time (each playing potentially 4 notes simultaneously to total 64 notes at one time although that would sound pretty messy). It has some flexibility with the kinds of sounds you can create because each sound is really a combination of four different oscillators (thus the QS for quadra-synth). The basic sounds that the oscillators can generate are limited to a bank of say several hundred or so.

As others have said, I don't think it's worth it to try to sequence the old-school way. At times I have done all my sound architecture and manipulation as well as just banging out the melodies on the Alesis while just using my laptop to record what I play and play it back for me so I can play something else on top of it. Just get Ableton (~$300) to sequence for you. Record and stop are mostly all you need to worry about on the computer end of things. You can do all your playing on the keyboard itself.

You also might want to also/instead get an analog keyboard like a Roland Juno or mini-Korg (the Alesis is digital) if you want to change the tone of the sound real-time with knobs as opposed to pre-programming them digitally in a console.

I would NOT buy a keyboard with an inbuilt sequencer because they tend to be disasters. They're like keyboards with inbuilt speakers - meant to be toys for young kids to play around with.

Hope this helps.

Peace, Agent Starchild

so you want to spend hella $$ for real knobs n sliders?? you can 'jam' with a midi keybaord + any vst...same thing...and you can get a midi controller to control the parameters of the synths...so tehre are ur knobs n sliders....costs like a fraction of the price too...damn.....hardware is cumbersome

You could try the Alesis Micron which has some funky mini seq built in for patterns and stuff. It might work but I don't know too much about it so you'll need to dig around for more info.

Thanks a lot guys.

quote:

Originally posted by dj_palm the new roland SH-201 is pretty basic and easy to use, and good for starters. it also has usb so and a vst editor so u can avoid using money on soundcard and mididevices + that u can (when u some day realize u should use computers too) edit the presets in the vst editor. im considering one myself and get rid of my JP, just for the ease but im not sure.

While the SH-201 is an okay synth, it's nothing like the JP-80X0.
It's too simplified. They have removed too many important features.
I've heard some say that the supersaw doesn't even sound the like the JP supersaw.

Ok, looking at more reviews etc this morning, I think the Microkorg looks the goods. The only serious complaint that people seem to have is the small size of the keyboard, which would probably be a minor annoyance, but worth it for the cheaper price, as most synths with a full-sized keyboard seem to be at least $300 extra.

As well as being synth, it also has midi in/out, so in future I could use it with softsynths too?

Would anyone here recommend or not recommend this? What are its good and bad points?

Actually, maybe the Alesis fusion is your go? Thats got a sequencer and its cheaper than korgs and rolands, so maybe go there first. I forgot about that one initially.

OT: Is it true that the V synth has a JP built in? I heard that the V synth has the JP software running in part of it... Could be good, I know that BTs a big fan of it, but the presets suck by all acounts. Apparently its time stretching and stuff is very fun to play with, that an the JP engine could be really nice...

quote:

Originally posted by Beat Blog Ok, looking at more reviews etc this morning, I think the Microkorg looks the goods. The only serious complaint that people seem to have is the small size of the keyboard, which would probably be a minor annoyance, but worth it for the cheaper price, as most synths with a full-sized keyboard seem to be at least $300 extra. As well as being synth, it also has midi in/out, so in future I could use it with softsynths too? Would anyone here recommend or not recommend this? What are its good and bad points?

My friends got this, he really likes it, its got an analogue sorta sound (its digital unlike what someone else said, most synths under $3000 ARE) he says the sound is killer. But theres not much FM and its a bit of a one trick horse. Polyphony is quite low I believe and theres no sequencer. Its a synth for someone with a computer/ sequencer.

quote:

Originally posted by kitphillips OT: Is it true that the V synth has a JP built in? I heard that the V synth has the JP software running in part of it... Could be good, I know that BTs a big fan of it, but the presets suck by all acounts. Apparently its time stretching and stuff is very fun to play with, that an the JP engine could be really nice...

No, it has the same engine as SH-201, which isn't exactly like the JP.

Pity, I guess the SH 201 isn't quite as good as the JP...

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