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The Awful Truth - Collapse of Ancient World

I strongly suggest anyone interested in mystical interpretations of our existance to read this free online book, The Awful Truth by Patrick Conway, HERE. You will have to request a username, and password, but after that, you can download all 300 some pages in pdf to your computer. My adobe version reads it out loud to me, making it easier to read over the screens.

The book's basic premise is that academia has failed to give humanity a coherent view of our existance. From our origins to where we are going. Otherwise, we would not be having such intense debates on the subject of theism vs. materialism. The author says that both are flawed and offers an alternative view. His view is very alternative, but it's something to think about. I especially like the arguments against evolution, which in my opinion isn't science at all. Just read the book!

You can also hear Patrick Conway talk about his theories on Coast to Coast AM here...Radio discussion on earth history.

downloaded. I'm interested in this subject.

Read something interesting..

Humans are seemingly alien to this planet. Looking at nature, all the animals live in harmony with nature, except for humans. Wherever we settle, we take ove the land entirely. The only natural enemy we have is microorganisms, old age, and ourselves. No other creature compares to our intellect, so we search for extra-species intelligence in the cosmos looking for ET. It's like the planet was already made and humans were put here.

that's quite a radical view.

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Originally posted by Omega_M that's quite a radical view.

seemingly alien. don't think it was stating it as such. It gets more and more interesting as I read it. Only on page 25 though.

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Originally posted by Krypton Read something interesting.. Humans are seemingly alien to this planet. Looking at nature, all the animals live in harmony with nature, except for humans. Wherever we settle, we take ove the land entirely. The only natural enemy we have is microorganisms, old age, and ourselves. No other creature compares to our intellect, so we search for extra-species intelligence in the cosmos looking for ET. It's like the planet was already made and humans were put here.

\


Can't it just be that we are the dominant animals? We are the only animals that are able to fully change the environment to suit are need. Other animals come close, using tools, building nests, creating dams to alter their environment to harvest more food. We can do it better. That's all. Just because we are the only ones to have evolved this far at this point does not entail that we are 'alien'. It is an interesting point, but has no grounding. It is mere speculation. Maybe we just killed off the competition. Maybe changing the environment deterred other would be human like creatures from evolving. I think this is a pretty week argument.

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Originally posted by venomX \ Can't it just be that we are the dominant animals? We are the only animals that are able to fully change the environment to suit are need. Other animals come close, using tools, building nests, creating dams to alter their environment to harvest more food. We can do it better. That's all. Just because we are the only ones to have evolved this far at this point does not entail that we are 'alien'. It is an interesting point, but has no grounding. It is mere speculation. Maybe we just killed off the competition. Maybe changing the environment deterred other would be human like creatures from evolving. I think this is a pretty week argument.

You'll just love the part on evolution.

As I'm understanding it, I didn't think the book was stating we are alien to this planet, but that we seemingly are alien. Food for thought to think we might be the aliens, but that idea is far out.

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Originally posted by Krypton Read something interesting.. Humans are seemingly alien to this planet. Looking at nature, all the animals live in harmony with nature, except for humans. Wherever we settle, we take ove the land entirely. The only natural enemy we have is microorganisms, old age, and ourselves. No other creature compares to our intellect, so we search for extra-species intelligence in the cosmos looking for ET. It's like the planet was already made and humans were put here.

I don't like to be commenting on this before reading the book, but this doesn't really make much sense whatsoever

First of all, it's not true that all other animals live in harmony with nature, otherwise there would be no extinct species except for those killed off by men. That's absurd, because even a mere "unfair" competition for food may lead a species to its extinction, or a subtle climate change. As for our intellect, other animals are not as "dumb" as that statement might imply - we might outsmart them, in spite of not having the best sensory system there is, but the price of developing a more elaborate intelligence was actually pretty high, so we're lucky we had the chance of engaging in a "cognitive arms race" without being wiped out during the process.

This whole argument sounds bizarrely anthropocentric, though. We're not that special... at all. As a matter of fact, if we really had to pick a "seemingly alien" creature, I'd personally viruses... they're just plain weird

cant one of you just sendspace.com the pdf

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Originally posted by Sunsnail cant one of you just sendspace.com the pdf

Good point. Why do they require a registration? Do they mention a reason?

If the book is freely available, [[ LINK REMOVED ]]
would be a great place to host it without any hassle.

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Originally posted by Krypton Humans are seemingly alien to this planet. Looking at nature, all the animals live in harmony with nature, except for humans. Wherever we settle, we take ove the land entirely.

How are we unique in this respect? Basically all plants do this. So does coral. So do termites, locusts and many other insects. A beaver, like Venom X said, can exert a phenotypical influence on the environment that stretches for miles. If we are unique in our ability to settle and change our environment, then it is only by a matter of degree rather than kind.

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The only natural enemy we have is microorganisms, old age, and ourselves.

The same can be said for lions. Or polar bears. Or sharks.

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It's like the planet was already made and humans were put here.

If we were "put here", then the beings that put us here obviously took their inspiration for our physiology from the life that already existed on this planet. Our chemical composition is virtually identical to that of all other animals (barring common decent, there is no good reason for this to be the case) and we have exactly the same vital requirements (food, water, oxygen etc.). Our skeletal, muscular and organ composition is very similar to that of all other vertabrates. The codons in our genes code for exactly the same 20 amino acids - out of potentially thousands - as all other life forms here. Genetically, we are 99% identical to chimpanzees, 80% identical to mice and 40% identical to worms. All of these figures increase if we compare only active genes.

Speaking of which, we have inactive genes within our genome that are present and which serve no purpose, but which are present and active in our evolutionary cousins. Only 5% of our DNA is actually active in the sense that it codes for proteins, most of the rest is "Junk DNA" which serves no purpose except in the context of a long-term evolutionary process. We have the same exogenous retroviruses (viruses that found their way into our genes) that our more close living relatives do. If we were "put here" by intelligent creators, one can only wonder they put all the unmistakable hallmarks of a long evolutionary history into our genome?

I used to listen regularly to Coast To Coast. In the last 3 years I've been too busy though. I will look into this, as I have been reading lots and lots of books, and articles on ancient civilizations, ruins found and theories / arguments about lost and hidden cities, etc. etc. very interesting ...

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Originally posted by Renegade If we were "put here", then the beings that put us here obviously took their inspiration for our physiology from the life that already existed on this planet. Our chemical composition is virtually identical to that of all other animals (barring common decent, there is no good reason for this to be the case) and we have exactly the same vital requirements (food, water, oxygen etc.). Our skeletal, muscular and organ composition is very similar to that of all other vertabrates. The codons in our genes code for exactly the same 20 amino acids - out of potentially thousands - as all other life forms here. Genetically, we are 99% identical to chimpanzees, 80% identical to mice and 40% identical to worms. All of these figures increase if we compare only active genes. Speaking of which, we have inactive genes within our genome that are present and which serve no purpose, but which are present and active in our evolutionary cousins. Only 5% of our DNA is actually active in the sense that it codes for proteins, most of the rest is "Junk DNA" which serves no purpose except in the context of a long-term evolutionary process. We have the same exogenous retroviruses (viruses that found their way into our genes) that our more close living relatives do. If we were "put here" by intelligent creators, one can only wonder they put all the unmistakable hallmarks of a long evolutionary history into our genome?

BRILLIANT! I needed a new sig, thanks!

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Originally posted by Renegade How are we unique in this respect? Basically all plants do this. So does coral. So do termites, locusts and many other insects. A beaver, like Venom X said, can exert a phenotypical influence on the environment that stretches for miles. If we are unique in our ability to settle and change our environment, then it is only by a matter of degree rather than kind. The same can be said for lions. Or polar bears. Or sharks. If we were "put here", then the beings that put us here obviously took their inspiration for our physiology from the life that already existed on this planet. Our chemical composition is virtually identical to that of all other animals (barring common decent, there is no good reason for this to be the case) and we have exactly the same vital requirements (food, water, oxygen etc.). Our skeletal, muscular and organ composition is very similar to that of all other vertabrates. The codons in our genes code for exactly the same 20 amino acids - out of potentially thousands - as all other life forms here. Genetically, we are 99% identical to chimpanzees, 80% identical to mice and 40% identical to worms. All of these figures increase if we compare only active genes. Speaking of which, we have inactive genes within our genome that are present and which serve no purpose, but which are present and active in our evolutionary cousins. Only 5% of our DNA is actually active in the sense that it codes for proteins, most of the rest is "Junk DNA" which serves no purpose except in the context of a long-term evolutionary process. We have the same exogenous retroviruses (viruses that found their way into our genes) that our more close living relatives do. If we were "put here" by intelligent creators, one can only wonder they put all the unmistakable hallmarks of a long evolutionary history into our genome?

I was speculating, chill.

If we wanted to, we could wipe life off the face of the planet. What other creature ever had that power?

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Originally posted by Sunsnail cant one of you just sendspace.com the pdf

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Originally posted by Lira Good point. Why do they require a registration? Do they mention a reason? If the book is freely available, [[ LINK REMOVED ]] would be a great place to host it without any hassle.

no..cause registration helps the author keep track of the number of people who visited his website and downloaded a copy. If it's free, atleast register and get your "official" copy and help him in the only way he's asking you to.

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Originally posted by Krypton If we wanted to, we could wipe life off the face of the planet. What other creature ever had that power?

I don't think we could. Life is to diverse and to addaptive. There have already been mass extinctions which have seen the mix of life forms change but has never endangerd all "life".

Then there's the more complex issue of where your deffinition of life ends. Are DNA, RNA molecules life? What about viruses? Surely bacteria are, but what about mitocontria?

No, they are not.

Conventional definition: Often scientists say that life is a characteristic of organisms that exhibit the following phenomena:

1. Homeostasis: Regulation of the internal environment to maintain a constant state; for example, sweating to reduce temperature.
2. Organization: Being composed of one or more cells, which are the basic units of life.
3. Metabolism: Consumption of energy by converting nonliving material into cellular components (anabolism) and decomposing organic matter (catabolism). Living things require energy to maintain internal organization (homeostasis) and to produce the other phenomena associated with life.
4. Growth: Maintenance of a higher rate of synthesis than catalysis. A growing organism increases in size in all of its parts, rather than simply accumulating matter. The particular species begins to multiply and expand as the evolution continues to flourish.
5. Adaptation: The ability to change over a period of time in response to the environment. This ability is fundamental to the process of evolution and is determined by the organism's heredity as well as the composition of metabolized substances, and external factors present.
6. Response to stimuli: A response can take many forms, from the contraction of a unicellular organism when touched to complex reactions involving all the senses of higher animals. A response is often expressed by motion, for example, the leaves of a plant turning toward the sun or an animal chasing its prey.
7. Reproduction: The ability to produce new organisms. Reproduction can be the division of one cell to form two new cells. Usually the term is applied to the production of a new individual (either asexually, from a single parent organism, or sexually, from at least two differing parent organisms), although strictly speaking it also describes the production of new cells in the process of growth.

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Originally posted by Krypton I was speculating, chill.

I know, and I just gave you an answer to save you the bother of having to speculate on the issue any further.

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If we wanted to, we could wipe life off the face of the planet. What other creature ever had that power?

Presuming that is true, how does that mitigate any of the evidence I just gave you demonstrating that we have the same common origin as all other life on this planet? Is the capacity to destroy things really a sign of some unique origin?

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Originally posted by Renegade Presuming that is true, how does that mitigate any of the evidence I just gave you demonstrating that we have the same common origin as all other life on this planet? Is the capacity to destroy things really a sign of some unique origin?

Shouldn't there be millions upon millions of transitional fossils documenting our evolution? Of which there are none but a few laughable missing links. The excuse I keep hearing is, "future scientific discoveries will figure these anomalies out."

Anyways, the book is worth a look at.

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Originally posted by Krypton Shouldn't there be millions upon millions of transitional fossils documenting our evolution? Of which there are none but a few laughable missing links. The excuse I keep hearing is, "future scientific discoveries will figure these anomalies out." Anyways, the book is worth a look at.

So you are saying that it should be either ALL the evidence or none? Considering the fact that finding fossils is quite hard and slightly random, I would say there is plenty of evidence.

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Originally posted by Krypton Shouldn't there be millions upon millions of transitional fossils documenting our evolution?

What on Earth are you talking about, mate? You mean that the numerous fossils we've found of H. habilis, H. rudolfensis, H. georgicus, H. ergaster, H. erectus, H. cepranensis, H. antecessor, H. heidelbergensis, H. neanderthalensis, H. rhodesiensis, H. sapiens idaltu, and H. floresiensis just aren't enough? Considering the fact that the world population wasn't really immense back then, and that these are individuals who lived millions of years ago, we've got enough evidence.

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Originally posted by Krypton Shouldn't there be millions upon millions of transitional fossils documenting our evolution?

Yes and there are. Every fossil is a "transitional" fossil. What part of the fossil record are you taking issue with specifically?

How about our friend Archaeopteryx?

This creature was not a transitional form of dinosaur bird, but rather a fully functional BIRD. That said, birds have always been birds. No reptile has been found to have the bird's unique avial lung system, yet Archaeopteryx has it. Archaeopteryx's brain is much closer to that of modern birds than to a reptile its size. Archaeopteryx's claimed ancestors appear to be younger than Archaeopteryx itself. The anatomy itself of Archaeopteryx was that of a fully functional bird. Birds and reptiles have a distinctly different anatomy, and it shows even in the fossil record.

We have had well over 100 years to study and build the fossil record. The world scientific community has hundreds of millions of fossils to study. There should be a clear and distinct transitional lineage present in the fossil record, and there is not more than a few questionable forms. I certainly am not asking for a complete transitional form of every creature thats ever lived, but there should be at least ONE transitional lineage. NONE are present.

It's easy to forget that we were just another animal only a few thousand years ago. In a few thousand more, we may be completely gone, at least as we know ourselves now. Also, the environment does not stop at the earth; most likely, it never stops. Only our ability to habituate and survive will change or cease.

It's a long road to reaching cognition, requiring data interpretation (whether correct or not) and the ability to pass it on somewhat intact from generation to generation; and it often requires toilet paper.

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Originally posted by Krypton I was speculating, chill. If we wanted to, we could wipe life off the face of the planet. What other creature ever had that power?

We can't.

Life has most likely been nearly eradicated by much more powerful forces than nuclear detonations, and every time it rebuilt itself.

The earth will probably create life from nothing but mud and water if it had to, and perhaps it even does, even now as we type. We also really have no idea how far down existence goes, so while we look at genes and assume on atoms and their properties, they themselves are most likely built upon any number of possible layers.

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