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Balance 005

was listening to this holden mix cd, and suddenly i remembered something I wanted to ask a few weeks ago.

uh, I have a vague idea of what the answer is, but I'd you experts to explain to me in detail

so here it is,

I purchased the "metalgroove ep." by "meta.83" and the track "antrieb" sounds nothing like the "antrieb" on balance 005. Okay, i just want to know how holden got the track to sound much more fuller and fat. same goes for "oshawa".

and did he loop most of the track (antrieb)? because, it seems longer on the mix cd

sorry if this sounds stupid, but I've been curious for a while now.

can u provide a sample of each version?

quote:

Originally posted by chris harrington can u provide a sample of each version?

yeah, give me a moment.

Antrieb (Balance 005)

Antrieb (Regular)

Oshawa (Balance 005)

Oshawa (Regular)

for the antrieb tracks, you can tell that it was sped up.. it's obvious. but, if you listening carefully the one on the Balance mix is much more pronounced in it's kick, bass, and the delayed effect in the background sounds as if it were filtered even more delay... if that makes any sense at all...


The Oshawa tracks... well, the bass is much more present, the kick is much more heavier, and the ambience is a whole lot more of presence.

I've eq'ed these tracks extensively and I haven't even come close to the final product heard in Holden's mix...

I'm just want to know how Holden got around to making them much more, eh, better sounding?


Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by R.j. Antrieb (Balance 005) Antrieb (Regular)

wow HUGE difference..

i dunno try turning the mids up a bit higher than the rest and speeing it up a bit?


but i dunno if htat will make a difference, because you are right.. its SOOO CHUNKY! dope track anyhow....

i think the first one is just speed up and eqed well

i dunno about the second one but i would like to know i liked it

quote:

Originally posted by nchs09 wow HUGE difference.. i dunno try turning the mids up a bit higher than the rest and speeing it up a bit? but i dunno if htat will make a difference, because you are right.. its SOOO CHUNKY! dope track anyhow....

i think the same thing about the second one.... try it out

i've sped it up. trust me

and still, nowhere near close

I guess this is something you'd ask James himself ?

the CDs that these tracks come from are most likely mixed in the studio instead of mixed live. that means that the artists are probably working with the original samples rather than a post production release. by having hte original samples and sessions the artist can add their own effects and change the way each element or instrument in the track sounds.

and then of course after they are mixed, they are mastered. and mastering will pretty much always change the original sound of a track.

i know that the balance CDs are all studio mixed, cant say about the other.

quote:

Originally posted by Vero i know that the balance CDs are all studio mixed, cant say about the other.

paolo mojo mixed his on cdjs

quote:

Originally posted by Vero the CDs that these tracks come from are most likely mixed in the studio instead of mixed live. that means that the artists are probably working with the original samples rather than a post production release. by having hte original samples and sessions the artist can add their own effects and change the way each element or instrument in the track sounds. and then of course after they are mixed, they are mastered. and mastering will pretty much always change the original sound of a track. i know that the balance CDs are all studio mixed, cant say about the other.

ahhh, that would make a whole lot of sense, actually. Thanks for the insight !

quote:

Originally posted by chris harrington paolo mojo mixed his on cdjs

well then i stand corrected. but even if one is mixed live and the other in the studio this could explain the difference.

well, now that we're on the subject...

Did James Holden use some type of Looping Sampler thing-ma-jig... cause that Oshawa track can clearly be heard looped at one point before "Tool 3" by "Zeta Reticula (umek)" mixes in. And then, after the short clip it jumps back into the ending of Oshawa perfectly, looped once more...

quote:

Originally posted by R.j. well, now that we're on the subject... Did James Holden use some type of Looping Sampler thing-ma-jig... cause that Oshawa track can clearly be heard looped at one point before "Tool 3" by "Zeta Reticula (umek)" mixes in. And then, after the short clip it jumps back into the ending of Oshawa perfectly, looped once more...

either CDJs or studio mixing software can loop very easily. ya dont really need a thing-ma-jig for it.

quote:

Originally posted by Vero either CDJs or studio mixing software can loop very easily. ya dont really need a thing-ma-jig for it.

heh, alrighty then! thanks

quote:

Originally posted by R.j. heh, alrighty then! thanks

i would bet that at least one of those CDs was mixed in a studio with something like pro-tools, logic, ableton, or cubase. With the studio tools and DJ tools that guys like these have access to, they can make anything sound however they want. they can take pip fartin of a snare drum (movie reference, who can ID?) and make it sound like a pvd synth line.

holden is very handy with the tempo and often finds a tempo that makes songs sound better.

I do believe there was a lot of remixing, editing n general studio wizardry that went into this mix. I remember reading a bit about it when it was released.

i dunno what they do on the mastering of balance cds, but bill hamel's balance 003 is weirdly mastered at least. most of the tunes are super fucking chunky while in reality they're not.
i recently bought one tune i particularly liked from the release:
hipp-e - primary funktion
and it's not nearly as good sounding as it was on the cd.
the normal version is just boring while the one on the cd makes you want to shake your ass no matter what. and the only difference is the "chunkiness" of the tracks.

For the record, Holden's Balance was Pro-Tooled

The only two that I know were spun live are Desyn and Paolo's - to the best of my knowledge, the rest either don't mention how they were done or were done with software.

I think Desyn use Ableton as well as cdjs.

Alot of tracks you hear from djs mixes sound phat/compressed but when you actually go buy the track it sounds so weak.

quote:

Originally posted by Vero the artists are probably working with the original samples rather than a post production release. by having hte original samples and sessions the artist can add their own effects and change the way each element or instrument in the track sounds.

I think that's very rarely the case actually. I'm sure they could (and do) get the odd sample they need from the original producer, being given all of the parts for a full rearrangement, mixdown and master is going to be very rare.

Heavy remastering and a bit of Pro-Tools rearrangement (done from the full track rather than teh parts), with some extra sounds thrown in (the Antrieb sample from Balance 005 sounds like it's got some extra pad sounds behind it etc) I think is your suspect.

thinking about it...


trent cantrell - TYCB or something


i hear sander playing it and it sounds so different from the original release, not chunkyer, just different


clearly its a remix that is released, but its edited and i cant find the edit

quote:

Originally posted by Breeze I think Desyn use Ableton as well as cdjs. Alot of tracks you hear from djs mixes sound phat/compressed but when you actually go buy the track it sounds so weak.

Desyn's Balance was done on CDJ's and Vinyl.

To the best of my knowledge, Desyn does not use Ableton.

sorry i wasnt clear , he uses ableton to edit all his tracks not using it to mix just for edits(not live) only.

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