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Xone and Ableton connectivity

I would like to use Xone for decks and Ableton although i know i won't get full funcionality from ableton.
I'm not really into DJM800 and in the future I will buy external midi controler when i find proper one.

So how to connect Xone so i can use it with 2 decks, and have other 2 channels used with Ableton in 2 ways.
One way playing from Ableton, second way using Ableton only too put effects on sound from decks?

Is anyone able to explain me is this all possible?

Re: Xone and Ableton connectivity

quote:

Originally posted by zolwik I would like to use Xone for decks and Ableton although i know i won't get full funcionality from ableton. I'm not really into DJM800 and in the future I will buy external midi controler when i find proper one. So how to connect Xone so i can use it with 2 decks, and have other 2 channels used with Ableton in 2 ways. One way playing from Ableton, second way using Ableton only too put effects on sound from decks? Is anyone able to explain me is this all possible?

You can't use your laptop to effect music coming from your decks.

And I'm no pro at this, but I think in order to use Ableton with your CDJ's, you'll need a soundcard with at least one output for each channel you want to run from Ableton, then you just assign that output to a channel in Ableton and run RCA cables to whichever channel you want to run it on in your mixer.

Get a MIDI controller to help with adjusting pitch among other things.

Re: Re: Xone and Ableton connectivity

Bah! Bad advice.

You have a Xone 92/62? That'll be great with Ableton. Don't think that because the DJM-800 has extensive MIDI support it'll be better for Ableton, it really doesn't work QUITE like that. The more you start to set all of this stuff up, the more you'll figure out why.

You'll definitely want a sound card with as many outputs as you can get: 4-6 stereo pair out and 4 stereo inputs or more. Go Firewire if at all possible; although USB 2.0 has enough bandwidth, USB is super finicky at times and you'll have lots of other devices you'll probably end up using at some point (MIDI controllers, etc). Ask any Macbook user (myself included) how well USB audio interfaces work on certain USB ports... it's a nightmare!

This Motu interface is a very good one (pricey, but very good):
http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/ultralite

Another reason to go with a really, really good Firewire interface: LATENCY. Particularly since you want to do effects on decks, latency will be a big limiting factor. Firewire + Good Interface = Less Latency. No matter what you do, however, you won't even begin to approach the latency of a hardware effects unit like the EFX-1000.

As for connections, you will route individual outputs from the audio interface to your mixer. Two is the bare minimum...

You have two options here, within Ableton you can just use two channels, and route one to one of the mixer channel inputs, and the other to the second. This will let you play off the two Ableton "decks" (channels) only, but you will be able to mix on your mixer just as if they were cdj's or TT's. The EQ's will work the same, faders the same, filters, cueing, etc. If you want more than two decks, run more cables, up to the 4 mixer channels on the Xone. You can crack open the Xone's and disable the phono preamps if you want two lines on a single channel (see the manual and be careful if you try this, it's very easy though).

A more flexible option is to create as many channels in Ableton as you want, and route the master out of Ableton to one mixer channel, and the cue out to the other. This will give you better routing options for sends/returns within the software, but you'll need a MIDI controller to map eq's and channel faders and such.

For effecting real decks, utilize the sends of your mixer! Route the efx 1 and or efx 2 send to an input on your soundcard. Within Ableton, create an audio track that takes input from that sound card input, set monitoring to "in", and set the channel output to another sound card output. You'll then connect that up to the return on the Xone. Drag effects onto that channel in Ableton, and use the send/return mechanism on the Xone to control wet/dry just like an EFX unit. Once again, latency can really hurt you here.

Another completely different option is to go with something like Torq. It will come with a soundcard, and you can use it with your decks. It can also apply any of it's effects to an incoming source (playing a regular CD or vinyl, etc) as well as for playing out of Torq itself. With it's tight looping features, you can actually do a lot of what you would do in Ableton with what you have now. Just food for thought if you aren't planning on going nuts with Ableton just yet...

Ableton is definitely amazing, but it takes a LOT of adapting.

quote:

Originally posted by RJT You can't use your laptop to effect music coming from your decks. And I'm no pro at this, but I think in order to use Ableton with your CDJ's, you'll need a soundcard with at least one output for each channel you want to run from Ableton, then you just assign that output to a channel in Ableton and run RCA cables to whichever channel you want to run it on in your mixer. Get a MIDI controller to help with adjusting pitch among other things.

Re: Re: Xone and Ableton connectivity

quote:

Originally posted by RJT You can't use your laptop to effect music coming from your decks.

Sure you can. You can have it setup as if it were an EFX unit.
Just do as Ryan0751 suggests. Use the AUX sends to control what you send to Ableton
and dedicate a channel on your mixer for the signal that is coming back from Ableton.
I've got a xone:32 myself, hence needing to dedicate one of the channels. The other ones have a Return channel.
You just need multiple ins and outs, with just one in-/output you'll be feeding
the signal in a loop from mixer to soundcard getting a horrible phasing/ringing sound.
Good luck!

- farris

That's news to me - I've only seen the CDJ's -> PC EFX -> Mixer fail miserably.

Well you have to run it using the efx loop, not direct. Direct and it'll suck royally because of the latency.

quote:

Originally posted by RJT That's news to me - I've only seen the CDJ's -> PC EFX -> Mixer fail miserably.

quote:

Originally posted by Ryan0751 Well you have to run it using the efx loop, not direct. Direct and it'll suck royally because of the latency.

So it still isn't true EFX then, right? Like you can't just decide on the fly to throw on an echo in the middle of a break...

I guess in my mind there's big difference between that and actually using it as an efx box.

First off the laptop as an efx box will not work because of the latency!

Heres who to hook things up:
2 cdjs on the first two channels.
2 line outs from your soundcard on the second two channels
1 channel will be the program material. One channel will be the preview material.
Midi out from the xone to midi in on the soundcard.
Set ableton to receave midi clock from the xone.

Have fun

Well most people don't buy 2 EFX boxes and put them in line either... you run it through your effects loop on your mixer, same thing with the laptop.

And it WILL work if you are very careful about the latency. Also, the type of effect can mask it... if you quickly cut over to the "wet" signal, you can also minimize the delay.

quote:

Originally posted by RJT So it still isn't true EFX then, right? Like you can't just decide on the fly to throw on an echo in the middle of a break... I guess in my mind there's big difference between that and actually using it as an efx box.

I already said that

Midi clock from the Xone 92 to Ableton won't get you much... you'd have to sync it up with the tap button, good luck with that The 3D has the push pull lever for making corrections to the MIDI clock.

quote:

Originally posted by Existo22 First off the laptop as an efx box will not work because of the latency! Heres who to hook things up: 2 cdjs on the first two channels. 2 line outs from your soundcard on the second two channels 1 channel will be the program material. One channel will be the preview material. Midi out from the xone to midi in on the soundcard. Set ableton to receave midi clock from the xone. Have fun

quote:

Originally posted by Ryan0751 Well most people don't buy 2 EFX boxes and put them in line either... you run it through your effects loop on your mixer, same thing with the laptop. And it WILL work if you are very careful about the latency. Also, the type of effect can mask it... if you quickly cut over to the "wet" signal, you can also minimize the delay.

Sounds to me like it's still nothing I'd try to use live.

I'll stick with my EFX unit.

Well I would too...

But if you are already using live, might as well try it out, right?

Still, if I'm going to be doing funky stuff and effects to all hell, I'll just mix in ableton and leave the CDJ's alone.

quote:

Originally posted by RJT Sounds to me like it's still nothing I'd try to use live. I'll stick with my EFX unit.

quote:

Originally posted by Ryan0751 Well I would too... But if you are already using live, might as well try it out, right? Still, if I'm going to be doing funky stuff and effects to all hell, I'll just mix in ableton and leave the CDJ's alone.

Indeed, and don't get me wrong - I really do appreciate you posting your method because it's taught me something new to try out in Ableton, and anything that broadens my horizons in that respect is great.

My only goal was to be clear on exactly how the effects were working, and discern whether or not there was much of a line between using a regular EFX unit and using the Ableton based effects on CDJ/vinyl sourced sound.

Re: Re: Re: Xone and Ableton connectivity

thanks so much! i really was thinking about this in the way you describe it but wasn't sure if this all gonna work. I don't have Xone yet so i couldn't check anything by myself :/.

quote:

For effecting real decks, utilize the sends of your mixer! Route the efx 1 and or efx 2 send to an input on your soundcard. Within Ableton, create an audio track that takes input from that sound card input, set monitoring to "in", and set the channel output to another sound card output. You'll then connect that up to the return on the Xone. Drag effects onto that channel in Ableton, and use the send/return mechanism on the Xone to control wet/dry just like an EFX unit. Once again, latency can really hurt you here.

Here was my biggest problem. Does xone have RETURN?

And if i would like to use Ableton with midi controller do i need soundcard?

quote:

Originally posted by Ryan0751 Well most people don't buy 2 EFX boxes and put them in line either... you run it through your effects loop on your mixer, same thing with the laptop. And it WILL work if you are very careful about the latency. Also, the type of effect can mask it... if you quickly cut over to the "wet" signal, you can also minimize the delay.

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You do need a shit hot lappy and a shit hot sound card, but it can be done.

Personally I think I'd only ever do it with a mutha of a MIDI controller so I can get down and dirty tweakin' the knobs so until then I'll stick to my EFX, but it's definitely something I want to look into.

Whether Ableton's the best tool for the job or not is another matter... Reaktor would probably be my first port of call but hey - if Ableton can do it then you've got a world of VSTs at your fingertips

Question for Ryan:

What if you routed your CDJ audio into ableton channels and THEN into the mixer?


I'm really interested in getting a Xone 62 or 92 and routing all 4 Ableton channels into the mixer, for all, the mixing, and using my X-session for effects and stuff.


Good thread!

quote:

Originally posted by Clovis Question for Ryan: What if you routed your CDJ audio into ableton channels and THEN into the mixer? I'm really interested in getting a Xone 62 or 92 and routing all 4 Ableton channels into the mixer, for all, the mixing, and using my X-session for effects and stuff. Good thread!

my friend does that here.. he runs all the outputs on his audio interfce into whatever 4 channel mixer.. im not sure exactly how he does it, but its pretty sneaky... he's on TA

That's how most people do it, actually. Mixing with MIDI controls sucks ass.

I would NOT route your CDJ's through ableton directly.

A. They won't work when ableton isn't running.
B. You'll introduce the latency, and it'll sound like butt.

quote:

Originally posted by Allied Nations my friend does that here.. he runs all the outputs on his audio interfce into whatever 4 channel mixer.. im not sure exactly how he does it, but its pretty sneaky... he's on TA

quote:

Originally posted by Ryan0751 That's how most people do it, actually. Mixing with MIDI controls sucks ass. I would NOT route your CDJ's through ableton directly. A. They won't work when ableton isn't running. B. You'll introduce the latency, and it'll sound like butt.

word, much better to have the cdjs either on a second line or by themselves on a channel.

quote:

Originally posted by Ryan0751 That's how most people do it, actually. Mixing with MIDI controls sucks ass. I would NOT route your CDJ's through ableton directly. A. They won't work when ableton isn't running. B. You'll introduce the latency, and it'll sound like butt.

Good to know. I've never tried it and was just wondering if it might work.

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