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Eliminating breakdowns.

I've noticed that all good DJs have relatively few breakdowns throughout their sets. And it does make sense, because this allows them to maintain the flow. I was wondering how they do it. Do they use ableton to edit their tunes beforehand (I can't figure out how to do this)? Are they using an additional deck for loops?

Re: Eliminating breakdowns.

Ableton for re-edits.

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Originally posted by Andryuha I've noticed that all good DJs have relatively few breakdowns throughout their sets. And it does make sense, because this allows them to maintain the flow. I was wondering how they do it. Do they use ableton to edit their tunes beforehand (I can't figure out how to do this)? Are they using an additional deck for loops?

Re: Re: Eliminating breakdowns.

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Originally posted by Ryan0751 Ableton for re-edits.

A bit of an overkill if editing away breakdowns is the only thing you're gonna do with it.

Re: Re: Re: Eliminating breakdowns.

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Originally posted by Mr.Mystery A bit of an overkill if editing away breakdowns is the only thing you're gonna do with it.

So what's the best method then?

Re: Re: Re: Eliminating breakdowns.

Yes and no. At least you'll be sure it's on beat, with an audio editor it's tedious. And obviously you'd end up doing more with Ableton than just that

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery A bit of an overkill if editing away breakdowns is the only thing you're gonna do with it.

Re: Eliminating breakdowns.

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Originally posted by Andryuha I've noticed that all good DJs have relatively few breakdowns throughout their sets. And it does make sense, because this allows them to maintain the flow. I was wondering how they do it. Do they use ableton to edit their tunes beforehand (I can't figure out how to do this)? Are they using an additional deck for loops?

LIke who?

Re: Re: Eliminating breakdowns.

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Originally posted by Beatflux LIke who?

Like John Digweed for instance. In fact, I saw him yesterday. I really paid attention to his technique.

lol that's because it's John Digweed

btw was it a good show? tried to get my brother and old friends in cleveland to go out....


Especially with the music Digweed plays, it's not very difficult to mix in over breakdowns. But yeah, edits help too. When I want to make people dance I avoid breakdowns at all costs.

Re: Re: Eliminating breakdowns.

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Originally posted by Ryan0751 Ableton for re-edits.

+1
best program for this. i've tried using sound editors for this but it has to be a perfect cut or the track will go off beat by a millisecond or two which is enough to throw you off.

i think edits are very underrated. doing your own edits can really set you apart from other djs.

Personally most of my music does not feature very many breakdowns and those that are there I don't have any problem mixing over. Think about things like hey this song has a boring into then a breakdown then the main part kicks in then it has another short breakdown then it kicks back in and flows into the outro. If you don't want those breakdowns cue the song after it comes back from the first breakdown and then mix over the second breakdown or mix out before it hits. When you're mixing you don't have to let the whole song play. It is up to you which parts you play or not.

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Originally posted by nefardec lol that's because it's John Digweed btw was it a good show? tried to get my brother and old friends in cleveland to go out.... Especially with the music Digweed plays, it's not very difficult to mix in over breakdowns. But yeah, edits help too. When I want to make people dance I avoid breakdowns at all costs.

The show was a blast. It took place outdoors (right by the Powerhouse) and wasn't very crowded, plus the weather was perfect.

I knew what to expect as far as the music goes, because I've been a fan of Digweed, since Northern Exposure came out (and I love prog house). I was a bit surprised that he didn't really interact with the crowd. Yet, he managed to play all the right tunes and had people jumping all over the place. His style definitely set him apart from the other big names.

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I was a bit surprised that he didn't really interact with the crowd. Yet, he managed to play all the right tunes and had people jumping all over the place.

exactly why he didn't interact witht he crowd

yeah seriously... it was funny ive had people tell me i need to jump around a bit more, be the attracitve young dj, smile and go nuts behind the decks... and i think about it and am like, hmm maybe, but then when the gig comes around, i just dance and keep moving, but i just cant bring myself to do the whole over the top crowd pumping....

its not that i dont want to, i just forget, and it doesnt even matter because if the tunes are going, the dancefloor does its thing

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Originally posted by Allied Nations yeah seriously... it was funny ive had people tell me i need to jump around a bit more, be the attracitve young dj, smile and go nuts behind the decks... and i think about it and am like, hmm maybe, but then when the gig comes around, i just dance and keep moving, but i just cant bring myself to do the whole over the top crowd pumping.... its not that i dont want to, i just forget, and it doesnt even matter because if the tunes are going, the dancefloor does its thing

I've always found it a bit comical when DJs are way over the top with the crowd pumping up and dancing to the music inside there booth. Kinda like that one DJ, who's name I forgot, that was caught facking the mix did.

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Originally posted by Oreoh142 Kinda like that one DJ, who's name I forgot, that was caught facking the mix did.

Ti�sto at EuroDisney? Anyone?

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Originally posted by Oreoh142 I've always found it a bit comical when DJs are way over the top with the crowd pumping up and dancing to the music inside there booth. Kinda like that one DJ, who's name I forgot, that was caught facking the mix did.

Peter Hook.

You guys need to see Digweed more, he's a total zombie, always has been, but ya, who cares. I remember when he came to MTL a few years ago, they had a camera on his fingers/mixer and it was being fed to a big ass screen on the side of the wall, was kinda cool actually.

I actually think it's cool when the DJ gets into the music, but it all depends. Some DJs like Digweed...they concentrate which does mean smoother mixing. But he's not a "performer" per say, he takes it more technical and musical. Tiesto on the other hand....he's pretty much a performer...and so is Sven Vath. They are their to entertain. Ultimately, Digweed lets the music speak for itself rather than try to draw attention to himself..which I admire as well. It all depends on what your in the mood for. I don't mind either.

And eliminating breakdowns....depends on the style but it's quite easy to just mix in on the breakdown...in a sense it's still there but your overlapping the breakdown (maybe cut it short) and transition to the next track. I have done that sometimes (sometimes on accident, sometimes not) when I've mixed over the years. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I think breakdowns can be made of use, rather than just eliminating them completely. But some music like epic trance....the breakdown is a big chunk of the track, and to eliminate it....kind of takes away the theme of the track IMO.

I dont think house tunes for the most part, need their breakdowns taken out, actually, in my opinion, if you want to keep people dancing i'd make an attempt to shorten the build up, IE: in Pryda tunes when the build up is 4 minutes long. (I heart Prydz, and all his tunes, but it's a bit too much sometimes IMO)

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Originally posted by Spirit5 Tiesto on the other hand

when i saw tiesto in DC... he didnt interact with the crowd at all for the most part... he was just playing tunes..


im not sure if hes just calloused to clubs now just cuz hes used to Tiesto in concert stadiumesque venues or he was just concentrating on the music



Armin Van Buuren on the otherhand.... wat a fake puppet dj...

everybreakdown... and i mean everybreakdown (his music has a shitload of em too...) he either had his hands in the air ... took his headphones off and put em up in the air... or was clapping his hands

for 4 hours straight every breakdown... always smiling

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Originally posted by Spirit5 I actually think it's cool when the DJ gets into the music, but it all depends. Some DJs like Digweed...they concentrate which does mean smoother mixing. But he's not a "performer" per say, he takes it more technical and musical. Tiesto on the other hand....he's pretty much a performer...and so is Sven Vath. They are their to entertain. Ultimately, Digweed lets the music speak for itself rather than try to draw attention to himself..which I admire as well. It all depends on what your in the mood for. I don't mind either. And eliminating breakdowns....depends on the style but it's quite easy to just mix in on the breakdown...in a sense it's still there but your overlapping the breakdown (maybe cut it short) and transition to the next track. I have done that sometimes (sometimes on accident, sometimes not) when I've mixed over the years. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I think breakdowns can be made of use, rather than just eliminating them completely. But some music like epic trance....the breakdown is a big chunk of the track, and to eliminate it....kind of takes away the theme of the track IMO.

I think the overall feeling of the night and vibe on the dancefloor is more important than the "theme" of the track or whatever idea the producer had in his head. If you find a track works better w/out a breakdown, get it out of there. I see what you're saying, but it's somewhat impractical when it comes to actually playing out. We've developed the technology to be able to rapidly edit songs in order to perfect them for dancefloor use - if that involves cutting out a breakdown (or adding one as I've done to plenty of techno records), so be it.

IMO

definitely

good deejays make songs into their own themes

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Originally posted by Allied Nations I think the overall feeling of the night and vibe on the dancefloor is more important than the "theme" of the track or whatever idea the producer had in his head. If you find a track works better w/out a breakdown, get it out of there. I see what you're saying, but it's somewhat impractical when it comes to actually playing out. We've developed the technology to be able to rapidly edit songs in order to perfect them for dancefloor use - if that involves cutting out a breakdown (or adding one as I've done to plenty of techno records), so be it. IMO

I understand as far as the dancefloor is concerned but there are many trance tracks of the epic variety that to eliminate the breakdown, is to eliminate the basic ingredient in the track. There's a track called "Time To Say Goodbye" by Envio. The breakdown is massive, and to me..if that was to be taken out of the track...it would take something away from the track. Maybe other examples would be Hydra's "Affinity (Thrillseekers Dub)" or Mike Shiver's "Feelings (Cosmicman's Messah Remix)". Definitely Solar Stone's "Seven Cities" would be totally missing the magic of the track without it's unbelievably beautiful breakdown.

To me, not every track in a set should be this pounding rhythm, there needs to be some variety. If a set just had the same sounding bassline, kick drum, hi hats etc...it wouldn't keep me interested. There should be some melodic or harmonic elements, esp in a trance set. You could get away with not having that in a drum n' bass, breaks or techno set, but not trance or house IMO.

So I guess playing rhythmic tracks mixed in with tracks where there are breakdowns is better than playing all rhythmic tracks with no breakdowns or sets with breakdown after breakdown. Even if they are just minor breakdowns, there should be some release and tension, and I think breakdowns give a set this. Besides, not everyone has the stamina to dance non-stop for two or three hours...so having some variety or low points in a set either in the beginning, somewhere in the middle, or at the end...is good IMO.

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there are many trance tracks of the epic variety that to eliminate the breakdown, is to eliminate the basic ingredient in the track.

bing bing bing!

quote:

Originally posted by Spirit5 I understand as far as the dancefloor is concerned but there are many trance tracks of the epic variety that to eliminate the breakdown, is to eliminate the basic ingredient in the track. There's a track called "Time To Say Goodbye" by Envio. The breakdown is massive, and to me..if that was to be taken out of the track...it would take something away from the track. Maybe other examples would be Hydra's "Affinity (Thrillseekers Dub)" or Mike Shiver's "Feelings (Cosmicman's Messah Remix)". Definitely Solar Stone's "Seven Cities" would be totally missing the magic of the track without it's unbelievably beautiful breakdown. To me, not every track in a set should be this pounding rhythm, there needs to be some variety. If a set just had the same sounding bassline, kick drum, hi hats etc...it wouldn't keep me interested. There should be some melodic or harmonic elements, esp in a trance set. You could get away with not having that in a drum n' bass, breaks or techno set, but not trance or house IMO. So I guess playing rhythmic tracks mixed in with tracks where there are breakdowns is better than playing all rhythmic tracks with no breakdowns or sets with breakdown after breakdown. Even if they are just minor breakdowns, there should be some release and tension, and I think breakdowns give a set this. Besides, not everyone has the stamina to dance non-stop for two or three hours...so having some variety or low points in a set either in the beginning, somewhere in the middle, or at the end...is good IMO.

We aren't saying edit out all the breakdowns in the land, but sometimes if you feel a tune would be better off without one, go for it. It's a case by case. I don't personally like to play that many big long breakdowns, but I still have plenty of tunes with them for when the opportunity for playing a big epic track comes.


I guess this is why I don't go to epic trance nights lol.

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