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Indo - US Nuclear Deal

The deal guarantees India fuel supplies, if the fuel supply from the US is for any reason cut off in future - possibly because of an Indian test - US would help find third countries to supply India.

It allows India to reprocess/enrich spent fuel as many times as it wants. India is not required to stop producing weapons grade fissile material by the agreement.

The Agreement completely ignores military aspects of such program, in the Agreement its mentioned that UN has access to 'Civilian' Nuclear sites and power plants, India has entirely separate complex for Defense Nuclear Research.. big remote Labs and Plants complex which are tagged 'Defense Nuclear Sites' and these sites neither US nor UN has access to as per the agreement.

The right to stockpile fuel and the right to reprocess fuel is a key step towards developing nuclear weapons. India will now have more Nuclear Bombs than Pakistan will ever have and yes India wants at least half of what China has.

India has a few Atomic and Hydrogen nukes already and also has has an extensive ongoing missile building program which makes huge spaceship sized missiles tailor made to support nuclear warheads and can fly across continents.

India never signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.


http://www.cfr.org/publication/9663/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...7072500393.html

this is how the game is played.

no matter where you are on he Pakistan/India situation or Sino/Indian relations...regardless of how most of you feel about America, we do this better than anyone in the world.

Oh the hypocrisy.

Iam assuming everyone is ok with India making advance nuclear weapons?seriously hearing shit like this angers me alot.It is sad and pathatic seeing how the U.S decides who can or cannot have such weapons.

It is funny how they are busting their balls trying to disarm NK and then go and give unlimited fuel supply.I bet you all that this will come and bite them in the ass in the near future.

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer Oh the hypocrisy. Iam assuming everyone is ok with India making advance nuclear weapons?seriously hearing shit like this angers me alot.It is sad and pathatic seeing how the U.S decides who can or cannot have such weapons. It is funny how they are busting their balls trying to disarm NK and then go and give unlimited fuel supply.I bet you all that this will come and bite them in the ass in the near future.

myopic.

India isn't ruled by psycho dictator who'd actually use a nuke if he felt that he was about to get an ass kicking

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer It is funny how they are busting their balls trying to disarm NK and then go and give unlimited fuel supply.I bet you all that this will come and bite them in the ass in the near future.

It's already started to come back. I'm sure the recent problems with Pakistan have something to do with the Nuclear deal.

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Originally posted by atbell It's already started to come back. I'm sure the recent problems with Pakistan have something to do with the Nuclear deal.

this deal was initiated two years ago.

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Originally posted by EvilTree India isn't ruled by psycho dictator who'd actually use a nuke if he felt that he was about to get an ass kicking

and that makes it ok for them to have such advanced weapons? and dont tell me they need this for the purpose of self defence,because then I argue and say Iran should have them for the exact same reason.

My question for those of you who support this action by the U.S is how in the hell is doing something like this could ever stabilize the region?if anything it will create more fear in the surrounding countries.I just cant think of a logical reason for this at all.

Also Why isnt the U.N. all over this?where is the media coverage? just imagine if lets say Russia did a similar deal with Iran,hell would brake loose.

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer My question for those of you who support this action by the U.S is how in the hell is doing something like this could ever stabilize the region?

a. because India would have to get the technology from someone else.
b. without this agreement there would be ZERO transparency.
c. having better cooperation and understanding between Non-Proliferation Treaty countries and India can eventually bring India into the non-proliferation fold or if anything keep them peaceful.

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Also Why isnt the U.N. all over this?

a. the UN can't be depended on to initiate or enforce anything of substance, really.
b. you obviously didn't read the conditions of the deal.

*India agrees to allow inspectors from the International Atomic Energy Association (IAEA), the United Nations' nuclear watchdog group, access to its civilian nuclear program. But India would decide which of its many nuclear facilities to classify as civilian. Teresita Schaffer, director of the South Asia program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, says these will now include domestically built plants, which India has not been willing to safeguard before now. Military facilities�and stockpiles of nuclear fuel that India has produced up to now�will be exempt from inspections or safeguards.

*India commits to signing an Additional Protocol (PDF)�which allows more intrusive IAEA inspections�or its civilian facilities.

*India agrees to continue its moratorium on nuclear weapons testing.

*India commits to strengthening the security of its nuclear arsenals.

*India works toward negotiating a Fissile Material Cutoff Treaty (FMCT) with the United States banning the production of fissile material for weapons purposes.

*India agrees to prevent the spread of enrichment and reprocessing technologies to states that don't possess them and to support international nonproliferation efforts.

*U.S. companies will be allowed to build nuclear reactors in India and provide nuclear fuel for its civilian energy program.


the deal brings the full power and support of the UN's IAEA inspections to civilian facilities of India's choosing with consessions of more openess in the future.

the military instalations are another story that probably involve Indian security issues. but this is a start.

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just imagine if lets say Russia did a similar deal with Iran,hell would brake loose.

Russia has. thats not even news anymore.

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Originally posted by EvilTree India isn't ruled by psycho dictator who'd actually use a nuke if he felt that he was about to get an ass kicking

India - South Asia
Brazil - South America
Iran - Middle East

All these three countries more or less share same position in their subcontinent.. they all are democratic nations and have certain influence on their neighbors and subcontinent.

This agreement will immediately shift power equations and give India an upper edge in the Asian Subcontinent.

Why will Brazil, Argentina, Iran etc wouldn't want to duplicate it in their own sub-continent and have that same upper edge? If US is supplying India, Iran should get its supplies from China and Russia should help Brazil. Soon you will see India helping its friends. Everyone makes money!

This present private club agreement will 100% trigger an arms race on global scale and not just among India-Pakistan.

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Originally posted by Purple India - South Asia Brazil - South America Iran - Middle East All these three countries more or less share same position in their subcontinent.. they all are democratic nations and have certain influence on their neighbors and subcontinent. This agreement will immediately shift power equations and give India an upper edge in the Asian Subcontinent. Why will Brazil, Argentina, Iran etc wouldn't want to duplicate it in their own sub-continent and have that same upper edge? If US is supplying India, Iran should get its supplies from China and Russia should help Brazil. Soon you will see India helping its friends. Everyone makes money! This present private club agreement will 100% trigger an arms race on global scale and not just among India-Pakistan.

India has always had the upper hand. more so in the last 20 years militarily and economically than anyone on your "subcontinent".

your country has been the only ones to have nukes on your "subcontinent" since 1974. what has changed since? nothing really except Pakistan.

Pakistan obtained theirs illegally from another non NPT country. all the other countries are NPT countries.

you're not making sense.

Aren't Iran and India a bit chummy with each other?

Purple, thanks for bringing this up, interesting read. The real question is - who will be next in line to receive this American fund of nuclear weapons technology?

New round of arms race shall commence! This time in Asian theatre.

You know, its only a matter of time when a ruthless radicals seizes control of one or few of these weapons and starts a big war, when things go out of control, especially in badly uneducated, radical-filled and inspired nations like Pakistan, India ... another big border skirmish between the two can develop into a nuclear standoff or conflict ... The pace of the spread of the nuclear weapons is alarming. Nukes have been around for 60+ years now? Today India is our friend, but what about tomorrow? Shall we give nukes to all our friends?

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Originally posted by Purple India - South Asia Brazil - South America Iran - Middle East All these three countries more or less share same position in their subcontinent.. they all are democratic nations and have certain influence on their neighbors and subcontinent. This agreement will immediately shift power equations and give India an upper edge in the Asian Subcontinent. Why will Brazil, Argentina, Iran etc wouldn't want to duplicate it in their own sub-continent and have that same upper edge? If US is supplying India, Iran should get its supplies from China and Russia should help Brazil. Soon you will see India helping its friends. Everyone makes money!

What the hell?! Brazilian society doesn't even want nuclear plants, let alone nukes!

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Originally posted by Q5echo India has always had the upper hand. more so in the last 20 years militarily and economically than anyone on your "subcontinent". your country has been the only ones to have nukes on your "subcontinent" since 1974. what has changed since? nothing really except Pakistan. Pakistan obtained theirs illegally from another non NPT country. all the other countries are NPT countries. you're not making sense.

India dont have nukes since 1974. India had an upper hand only in last 10-12 years, after successfully testing nuclear bombs. 1974 blasts were a failure and India had nukes only in year 1998 after successful tests.

Pakistan got it nukes in dismantled state from China. China is a NPT country I think. India got its nuke technology from Russia which was its undeclared ally during Cold War. Russia shared extensive Nuclear knowhow and help build many nuclear reactors in India. India loves to claim that its a 'Non-Allied' country, but the fact is India always was an ally of USSR, who sold its space research/satellite, defense and nuclear technology to India. Russia built India's army.. war ships, submarines, MIG Fighter planes, intercontinental missiles, rifles, grenades, surveillance radars.. all are built from the help from Russians in past.

After the collapse of USSR and recent times, India is cautiously switching sides, and US has done a formidable job in making sure this transition is as comfortable for India as possible.

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Originally posted by George Smiley Aren't Iran and India a bit chummy with each other?

No, among all the Middle East/Muslim countries India 'had' best relations with Iran. The trade between two countries were huge, I mean business trade.. India also had plan of building an oil pipeline from Iran all the way to India, but because politically unstable Pakistan lies in between so it was shelved.

At the time of US lobbying for votes for sanctions on Iran, their was protests all over India against the sanctions, the main opposition party asked the government to vote against the sanctions and even part of the than present government had put a lot of pressure on Prime Minister to make it clear publicly to both Iran and US that India will vote against the sanctions. But US bribed India well with promise of this nuke deal and putting more pressure on Pakistan to stop terrorism in Kashmir, so India kept quit on this issue and didnt voiced any opinion on the matter. Since than relations between India and Iran went a downfall.

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Originally posted by Lira What the hell?! Brazilian society doesn't even want nuclear plants, let alone nukes!

I'm not sure how this has developed since 2004 but here is the issue at the time. Brazil was concerned that some of the technology they had developed was a national secret so they didn't want anyone to see how thier centerfuge was designed.

"Brazil is planning to commission later this year a uranium enrichment plant that, if configured to do so, could fuel several nuclear weapons annually. As a member of the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty (NPT), Brazil has promised not to make such weapons and is obliged to allow the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) to ensure this is the case. But this spring Brazil took the extraordinary step of barring the plant's doors to the IAEA's inspectors." (Oct. 22, 2004)


http://www.wisconsinproject.org/pub...clearPuzzle.htm

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Originally posted by Purple India dont have nukes since 1974. India had an upper hand only in last 10-12 years, after successfully testing nuclear bombs. 1974 blasts were a failure and India had nukes only in year 1998 after successful tests.

OPERATION SMILING BUDDHA in 1974, by all accounts, was a successful underground detonation of a fission device. if you want to argue about total yeild of that device then fine, but officially it was put at around 12 kilotons (Hiroshima was 13-16 kilotons).

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Pakistan got it nukes in dismantled state from China. China is a NPT country I think. India got its nuke technology from Russia which was its undeclared ally during Cold War.

maybe in the 80's but Operation Smiling Buddha was an entirely domestic effort.

India got its first official reactor in 1960 from Canada.

in 1963,American companies, General Electric and Bechtel, built the reactors in Tarapur, Maharashtra and they are still in operation.

i don't doubt for a second Russia and China over the years helped them with reactors for power generation or weaponizing their nukes but India originally did a lot of their own legwork.

and your right, China is an NPT country. but North Korea isn't and they have helped Pakistan in there nuke effort and weaponizing nukes

Am I reading something wrong here? I though Pakistan got nuclear weapons blueprints technology from Netherlands ... via then scientist Khan, who is now a big hero in Pakistan

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Originally posted by Magnetonium Am I reading something wrong here? I though Pakistan got nuclear weapons blueprints technology from Netherlands ... via then scientist Khan, who is now a big hero in Pakistan

you're right. Khan got his technology from the Nederlands.

but it's an entirely different issue being able to weaponize that technology.

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Originally posted by Q5echo you're right. Khan got his technology from the Nederlands. but it's an entirely different issue being able to weaponize that technology.

True, true. I havent read about WHO gave Pakistan nuclear weapons equipment, and India ... But I'd like to know for a fact, because I am getting confused here. Who started the nuclear arms race between India and Pakistan?

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Originally posted by atbell I'm not sure how this has developed since 2004 but here is the issue at the time. Brazil was concerned that some of the technology they had developed was a national secret so they didn't want anyone to see how thier centerfuge was designed. "Brazil is planning to commission later this year a uranium enrichment plant that, if configured to do so, could fuel several nuclear weapons annually. As a member of the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty (NPT), Brazil has promised not to make such weapons and is obliged to allow the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) to ensure this is the case. But this spring Brazil took the extraordinary step of barring the plant's doors to the IAEA's inspectors." (Oct. 22, 2004) http://www.wisconsinproject.org/pub...clearPuzzle.htm

Oh, true that, that was some of the drama surrounding our nuclear reactor (although there's someone trying to shut it down every other week, reason why I said society doesn't seem to support it that much).

What I knew about it is quickly dismissed by the article when it says [i]t seems unlikely that Brazil is really concerned that the IAEA will illegally reveal industrial secrets, although I'm not so sure about it.

Besides, I don't think Brazilians in general would support it unless we had an "enemy", so to speak. And Argentinians in general wouldn't support it in any case

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