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The commodification of trance

Stuff like turning trance events into "concerts," compilations with DJs' heads on them, t-shirts, making fans into a "market," intense focus on individual big-hit tracks, etc.

Good or bad?

Bad

I like t-shirts, shows support to edm in general. I love big outdoor concerts, brings edm to the masses. Marketing fanbase is a horrible thing to do and rockstar djs and dj faces on compilations are also horrible. Some stuff just matters on how well its executed.

Arena shows can be a great experience and I think it's a natural step forward.

Re: The commodification of trance

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Good or bad?

Ancient fucking history. It's been going on for a decade now, and look what's happened to the music in that time. Go figure.

Bad and good. I think trance music should expand a little more mainstream (get more people introduced to it), but without totally conforming to pop structure with 3 or 4 minute tracks. To me, trance tracks are meant to be more than 6 minutes long, so none of those "radio edits". I also think the DJ Worship thing is stupid..the focus should be on the music, not the DJ.

Besides that....the concerts can be a good idea but they should better done. I think a combo of a concert and a festival works....sort of like a psy festival, but with melodic or epic trance. Something where people can be taken on this journey (I know it all sounds so pretentious but the idea behind trance I feel is to do this, not just make people dance).

I think the use of true live (more so than Tiesto In Concert or Armin Only) instruments and singing, coupled with DJing would be a good idea. More live acts would be nice....if only there could be more "trance bands"...sort of like Faithless (I know they aren't technically all "trance" music)....the use of live guitars and some percussion. Maybe something more like Mike Oldfield's or Tangerine Dreams's concerts. Slower trance music that is more organic. Schiller does concerts, and the music he produces is pretty close to trance (some of it is trance).

I don't really think DJs do that anymore..it's more about playing the latest hit tracks in almost any order...one after another, which I think makes them almost Top 40 Trance DJs. I think psy trance DJs might do this better, but I personally prefer the more melodic style. I think modern trance CDs are more about showcasing the latest tracks as well. I think a little bit of that is fine but that seems to be more the focus, esp in trance music.

And the other stuff...it's done with other music (T-Shirts) so I don't see the issue there. A lot of people like to identify themselves with a specific band, singer, genre etc. Done minimally, it can be ok.

Re: The commodification of trance

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Stuff like turning trance events into "concerts," compilations with DJs' heads on them, t-shirts, making fans into a "market," intense focus on individual big-hit tracks, etc. Good or bad?

Mostly bad.

Re: Re: The commodification of trance

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Ancient fucking history. It's been going on for a decade now, and look what's happened to the music in that time. Go figure.

Haha, that's what I was thinking. Trance is already mainstream, get with it.

More people into trance the better. Albeit the old school heads will say how this influx of people is bad for the genre. But lets think about something for a minute.

People say that theres so many bad tracks, and very few good tracks. But yet a few years ago, you didnt have as many people into the music. Some of them who turned out to be damned good. Others who are no so much. Rap has the same phenomenon. Theres just so much music coming in, that people swear things are going wrong. When its going exactly right for its intention. To bring new people and fresh ideas to the genre.

Just with so many copycats and people without that knack, it seems like things are going downhill.

Re: The commodification of trance

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Stuff like turning trance events into "concerts," compilations with DJs' heads on them, t-shirts, making fans into a "market," intense focus on individual big-hit tracks, etc. Good or bad?

I think it's bad.Only for reasons that i think the underground should stay underground.I think this has alot to do with what has happened to trance.The evolution of trance into it losing it's identity.Imo.

Re: Re: The commodification of trance

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Originally posted by Surfmorworkless I think it's bad.Only for reasons that i think the underground should stay underground.I think this has alot to do with what has happened to trance.The evolution of trance into it losing it's identity.Imo.

Why should trance stay underground though? What's wrong with music being inclusive..rather than exclusive? I think the problem is that things try too hard to be mainstream (i.e. the stuff like DJ Sammy, Ian van Dahl, Lasgo, which are hardly trance) rather than just stay as it is. Maybe not the hard or trippier sounds though like with full on psy and hard trance, they might not go over too well, but I could certaintly see the melodic/epic variety becoming more mainstream, as it already has been a little more in Europe.

I just see the attitude about trance music being or should be underground as being elitist and exclusive...meaning for a specific group/sub-culture rather than as a way to include more people of all types. I think, unlike some other genres of music like Heavy Metal, Punk and Rap, trance being mostly instrumental and melodic...it has what it takes to appeal to more people all over the world and doesn't neccessarily have a cliquey group (though I think Psy has a little more...esp with the hippie/ravers but there's more people than those who are into it). This is what I think makes trance good.

So the underground should stay underground, but trance in and of itself I don't think should. But certaintly..there's styles of trance and EDM that have a more "underground" sound that I don't think will appeal to the "mainstream". The really glitchy IDM, gabba, hardstyle, hardstep, speedcore, full on psy, hard trance....just some styles which I don't think would go over too well in the mainstream.

Re: Re: The commodification of trance

quote:

Bad and good. I think trance music should expand a little more mainstream (get more people introduced to it), but without totally conforming to pop structure with 3 or 4 minute tracks. To me, trance tracks are meant to be more than 6 minutes long, so none of those "radio edits". I also think the DJ Worship thing is stupid..the focus should be on the music, not the DJ......

Exactly how I feel.

The only thing that keeps me thinking that edm should stay underground is the fact that I would hate the fact that "hey its on mtv, its cool, ill listen to it cuz everyone else is" people would be listenig to the same stuff I do. Its dishones and its not for the music, I would rather enjoy my taste and love with people that are really passionate about it as I am.

quote:

Originally posted by wotyzoid The only thing that keeps me thinking that edm should stay underground is the fact that I would hate the fact that "hey its on mtv, its cool, ill listen to it cuz everyone else is" people would be listenig to the same stuff I do. Its dishones and its not for the music, I would rather enjoy my taste and love with people that are really passionate about it as I am.

But I don't see trance as being "MTV music" but rather a style that more people, including some older people, might like. I don't really want to make the "trance & classical" comparision that have been discredited on here, but in a sense...like classical was a popular style of music in the 17th and 18th centuries (leading into romantic) I can see trance as being something similar. I think in the sense that it's mostly instrumental, it's melodic, it's made to be "compositions" (not all but there is some brilliant melodic works done) and like classical..it's got to be experienced live (but it also can be experienced at home, but live enhances it). Long compositions with changes over time...music to be taken on a journey with...to me both styles do this very well (but trance has been lacking in this lately IMO). Individual tracks can be this journey, but when coupled with other tracks or "compositions" it further brings it into a complete whole...like a classical concert with many movements all linked together.

I know..trance is not nearly as complex as classical...i've seen those threads before about that. But the basic idea is there (it's just not executed right all the time with trance IMO). BT's "Flaming June" is one of the most brilliant melodic trance tracks of all time IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by wotyzoid The only thing that keeps me thinking that edm should stay underground is the fact that I would hate the fact that "hey its on mtv, its cool, ill listen to it cuz everyone else is" people would be listenig to the same stuff I do. Its dishones and its not for the music, I would rather enjoy my taste and love with people that are really passionate about it as I am.

+1

bad, bad, bad!

any music becoming commercial is bad IMO. it moves the focus from the music itself to money and that will lead to decline in quality because it's not about the music anymore, it's about money.
i seriously can't even remember when was the last time i heard a new good trance track as it's all become so bad IMO, and i fucking love good trance!
fucking armin etc. have really ruined it for me.
also i don't care if everyone would listen to what i listen as long as it's good, but IMO music does decline in quality when it becomes commercial (when everyone else hears about it), so that's why i don't want it to happen. i don't give a fuck about being exclusive or underground, i just want good noncommercial music.
also Spirit5, please stop with the trance being like classical thing, it's not, not even close, trance is dance music and even though it can feature beautiful melodies it's not similar to classical and it'll never become what you hope it will.

but it have already happened? I mean have you already forgotten end of 90s? What angered me the most was that they often took a decent tune and just slapped on some shitty vocals and aired it on TV. That was it. How in the earth can that be something good? No wonder trance started retreat at large from radios and TVs. It had dug its own grave.

quote:

Originally posted by RebeL9 but it have already happened?

I know it has. I was wondering what people think about it.

quote:

Originally posted by Spirit5 But the basic idea is there

No, not it's not.

quote:

Originally posted by RebeL9 but it have already happened? I mean have you already forgotten end of 90s? What angered me the most was that they often took a decent tune and just slapped on some shitty vocals and aired it on TV. That was it. How in the earth can that be something good? No wonder trance started retreat at large from radios and TVs. It had dug its own grave.

Long before that, you could argue. I remember in an earlier thread someone said something like 'it started when they thought of adding vocals to the power of american natives'

quote:

Originally posted by Spirit5 Bad and good. I think trance music should expand a little more mainstream (get more people introduced to it), but without totally conforming to pop structure

Impossible. There's no such thing as going mainstream/pop while retaining eclectic, avant-garde roots. To go pop, you must become pop. The more people get introduced to trance, the more trance has to sell itself to hold their interest. Popularity reaches critical mass when trance rejects its narrow niche in order to appeal to the superficial, shallow pallette of mainstream behavior.

In truth, spirit5, the mainstream already likes trance. Once you take away the trance part.

You're living proof.

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur Impossible. There's no such thing as going mainstream/pop while retaining eclectic, avant-garde roots.

Orbital managed it.

Re: The commodification of trance

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Good or bad?

i couldn't give a flying fuck personally


yes, commercialisation often leads to suckiness but then not every artist goes down that route do they. enjoy the ones that don't, pity the ones that do, revel in the knowledge that your tastes are supposedly superior and stop caring about music you don't even like just because it shares the same genre name. people really need to stop trying to analyse 'trance'

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Orbital managed it.

We're talking about a whole genre, Jack.

Not an artist.


Everyone listen to that oldskool Jason Porter - Trellis set. You really think the mainstream would get into that? How could the pop world of album-oriented marketing and manufactured faces plastered on CD covers possibly enjoy something that unresponsive and unwieldy, spacey, repetitive, weird, and completely antithetical to everything they thought music was supposed to be?

Unless....of course....you market it in album format. Delivered by a recognizable face on the cover. And you remove the repetitiveness and replace it with bridges, and choruses, and lyrics, and all the trappings of the pop music machine glossed all over it. There, now we have something that the average person can relate to and enjoy: A State of Trance.

But why? Was all of this necessary? Maybe to fill the coffers of those involved in the industry (and I don't blame them for doing it, I would have done the same), but what about you? What do you get out of this? Do you really need the validation? Do you need assurance that you're not a freak? Do you want the rest of society to pat you on the back and say "hey, I listen to this music too, you're an okay guy." No, really. What is it about commercial acceptance that you think is going to make things so much better? Is it going to make the music better, or your perceived fears of persecution?

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