Few Questions From Begginner About Mixing/CDJ100s

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-- Few Questions From Begginner About Mixing/CDJ100s

Posted by a spoon on Aug-14-2007 05:24:

Few Questions From Begginner About Mixing/CDJ100s

Hey everyone. Im a long time lover of trance and house and I just had a few questions maybe you more experienced mixers could help out with.

1.Im a college student with limited funds so I could only scrape together enough for a couple cdj100s. Are these precise enough to learn beatmatching on and could I learn on these for years to come?

2.How do you figure out the best time to start mixing in a new track/fade out the old one? Im guessing its really just knowing your tracks and the changes. Are there any tricks with counting the beats or phases?

3.What is the best genre to learn on?

4.And lastly if anyone can remember back to the first time they got around the decks any tips or tricks you picked up would be greatly appreciated. None of my close friends mix so I have been having to rely on internet tutorials pretty much and reading text seems to only be getting me so far.

Anyways I am familiar with all of the basic parts/uses of my equipment and I have done some sucessful mixes too I just want to learn to be more precise and have cleaner transitions. Sorry for the Q & A here but I figure everyone has to start somewhere.

Any advice would be great!

Posted by Zoso on Aug-14-2007 11:30:

I cut my teeth on vinyl, but I can toss out some stuff that might be of use.

I first mixed on the software Virtual DJ. It is of course nothing like mixing on real hardware, but it was free, and it was a nice way to visually "see" your tracks in wave form. It can help you learn phrasing a bit, and it can help you learn which tracks lend themselves to blending well. Just food for thought.

As for beatmatching, I'd get two CDs of the same song. Practice "throwing" in your next song (again, forgive the vinyl terminology). You won't have to adjust your pitch much this way (other than minor adjustments to synch up your tracks), as you're using tracks with the same BPM. This will help you learn that particular sound you hear when you have two tracks synched up well. Learning this sound was a huge help to me.

As for phrasing, I mix epic and progressive trance, and these lend themselves to easy mixing. Almost all epic trance will have two breakdowns, and after the end of the second breakdown, there will be a brief pause with no beats, then the kick will come back in. It's easy to just throw in your new record (CD) at this time. You'll still have a bit of melody on the way out as your new incoming melody builds up. Of course this style of mixing can become boring for many.

Lastly, I would take the time to download some mixes here in our very own DJ Promotion forum. Listen to the way they mix and transition. We have excellent DJs here that easily rival all the pros.

Welcome to the forums.

Posted by Ted Promo on Aug-14-2007 14:06:

yes, you can beatmatch on 100's, most of the psy/goa djs that play - in goa - use 100's and don't want to use anything other than them (pardoning GOA Gil who uses DAT tapes).

Any genre can lend itself "easy" to mix, you just have to practice enough. I can mix better with tech house, techno, and things of that nature since that's mainly what I mix (I'm lost with how you really mix downtempo and 2-step genres like dubstep but I'm sure I could figure it out if I really cared).

As you guessed it, fading in and out of a track is such an incredible variable that can't be concretely defined it's almost not worth mentioning. There's plenty of ways to fade in and out of a track and it all depends on the track, the set you're trying to build, and what you think will sound good at the moment. If you don't understand this now, you will in the future.

In summary: learn on the genre you like best, you'll eventually get it, yes you can beatmatch well on your cdjs, and no, there's no golden rule about fading into and out of a track.

The only real tip I could offer you is to be sure to use master tempo on your cdjs (I think 100s have them) as it makes adjusting pitch much easier and less noticeable.

Posted by Ryan0751 on Aug-14-2007 14:15:

Are you buying used CDJ-100's? I only ask because they have been discontinued for some time. If you can swing 200's, they jump from .1% pitch increments to .02%.

I would advise against using the master tempo feature when you are starting out:

1. It can cause sound artifacts when used beyond a certain pitch range.
2. You won't be able to "hear" when you are pitching up or down, which is key when you're learning.
3. Master tempo DOES hide big pitch changes... but your goal is to avoid them anyway

quote:
Originally posted by Ted Promo
yes, you can beatmatch on 100's, most of the psy/goa djs that play - in goa - use 100's and don't want to use anything other than them (pardoning GOA Gil who uses DAT tapes).

Any genre can lend itself "easy" to mix, you just have to practice enough. I can mix better with tech house, techno, and things of that nature since that's mainly what I mix (I'm lost with how you really mix downtempo and 2-step genres like dubstep but I'm sure I could figure it out if I really cared).

As you guessed it, fading in and out of a track is such an incredible variable that can't be concretely defined it's almost not worth mentioning. There's plenty of ways to fade in and out of a track and it all depends on the track, the set you're trying to build, and what you think will sound good at the moment. If you don't understand this now, you will in the future.

In summary: learn on the genre you like best, you'll eventually get it, yes you can beatmatch well on your cdjs, and no, there's no golden rule about fading into and out of a track.

The only real tip I could offer you is to be sure to use master tempo on your cdjs (I think 100s have them) as it makes adjusting pitch much easier and less noticeable.

Posted by a spoon on Aug-14-2007 16:54:

Thanks for the advice everyone! Yea I already got the 100s. Would have loved to pick up the 200s but I found a deal on craigslist and the 200 are really out of my price range especially since I just got a damn speeding ticket Iv been tracking down alot of tribal house so I think I will start with that before I try to tackle trance. Thanks again fellow EDM listeners

Oh also how do I quote someone in a reply? Probably a dumb question I realize...

Posted by Ryan0751 on Aug-14-2007 17:48:

Haha, click "quote" maybe? lol

quote:
Originally posted by a spoon
Thanks for the advice everyone! Yea I already got the 100s. Would have loved to pick up the 200s but I found a deal on craigslist and the 200 are really out of my price range especially since I just got a damn speeding ticket Iv been tracking down alot of tribal house so I think I will start with that before I try to tackle trance. Thanks again fellow EDM listeners

Oh also how do I quote someone in a reply? Probably a dumb question I realize...

Posted by nerdgrl416 on Aug-15-2007 03:49:

quote:
Originally posted by Ryan0751

I would advise against using the master tempo feature when you are starting out:

1. It can cause sound artifacts when used beyond a certain pitch range.
2. You won't be able to "hear" when you are pitching up or down, which is key when you're learning.
3. Master tempo DOES hide big pitch changes... but your goal is to avoid them anyway

No kidding. I think I started having some trouble when I started using Master tempo.

Can someone provide more insight on this?

Posted by Domesticated on Aug-15-2007 07:14:

quote:
Originally posted by nerdgrl416
No kidding. I think I started having some trouble when I started using Master tempo.

Can someone provide more insight on this?

It keeps the pitch the same, regardless of the speed the track is playing. If you're used to using pitch to differentiate speeds, this will throw you a bit. Just keep practising and you'll get used to it, however you shouldn't need to use the master tempo much anyway.

To the original creator of this thread, no one really explained the word "phrasing" to you, despite using it several times.

Simply described, but not always concrete:

1. Dance tracks work on a 4/4 time signature. There are 4 beats in a bar.

2. Generally, but not always, a "phrase" is 4 bars, or 16 beats.

3. At the start/end of a phrase, a major element of the track will usually drop in/out, such as a high hat, snare drum, melody etc.

4. Phrases can be picked very easily. If you've been listening to dance for any basically any amount of time, you will have been doing it subconsciously anyway. An example is during a massive build-up, with no kick drum. When the build ends, and the bass drops back in, that's when a new phrase has started, so you'd hit the "play" button for the incoming track at that exact time - when the bass comes back in.

5. Phrasing will make your mixing sound far more natural, because as one element drops out, another will jump in to take it's place and thus the intensity of the music will stay roughly the same.

Hope that helps.

Posted by Omega_Blue on Aug-15-2007 07:59:

1. yup, it's good enough if you're on a budget.
2. search "phrasing"
3. probably trance. big obvious cues to mix, 4 on the floor kick.
4. practice and patience.

Posted by nerdgrl416 on Aug-15-2007 16:59:

Posted by a spoon on Aug-15-2007 19:58:

quote:
Originally posted by Beat Blog
It keeps the pitch the same, regardless of the speed the track is playing. If you're used to using pitch to differentiate speeds, this will throw you a bit. Just keep practising and you'll get used to it, however you shouldn't need to use the master tempo much anyway.

To the original creator of this thread, no one really explained the word "phrasing" to you, despite using it several times.

Simply described, but not always concrete:

1. Dance tracks work on a 4/4 time signature. There are 4 beats in a bar.

2. Generally, but not always, a "phrase" is 4 bars, or 16 beats.

3. At the start/end of a phrase, a major element of the track will usually drop in/out, such as a high hat, snare drum, melody etc.

4. Phrases can be picked very easily. If you've been listening to dance for any basically any amount of time, you will have been doing it subconsciously anyway. An example is during a massive build-up, with no kick drum. When the build ends, and the bass drops back in, that's when a new phrase has started, so you'd hit the "play" button for the incoming track at that exact time - when the bass comes back in.

5. Phrasing will make your mixing sound far more natural, because as one element drops out, another will jump in to take it's place and thus the intensity of the music will stay roughly the same.

Hope that helps.

Thanks alot beat blog. Thats a really good description whole lot easier to pick them out now

Posted by Watts on Aug-16-2007 04:13:

I think it's a good thing you're learning on 100s because most djs with CDs freeze in their spots when they have to use stutter mode.

Posted by Domesticated on Aug-16-2007 04:22:

quote:
Originally posted by a spoon
Thanks alot beat blog. Thats a really good description whole lot easier to pick them out now

I forgot to mention that "minor" phrases tend to be 4 bars, while "major" phrases tend to be 16 bars (64 beats).

A major phrase is usually the start/end of a breakdown or build-up.

Keep in mind that this isn't always concrete. Some phrases can be 32 beats or other strange numbers depending on the song. Knowing your records is the key.