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-- Next stop: Recession
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Posted by ninetyninej on Aug-16-2007 16:58:

Next stop: Recession



I'm not glamorizing this looming recession either, this directly affects my business and watching this unravel for the last 6 months has been shitty.

This won't be just tied to subprime meltdown, mortgages companies, foreclosures, etc, this will spill out into many areas of our economy over the next year or two.

And to add insult to injury we're dragging down other country's economies with us:

http://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=...L55U&refer=home
http://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=...VLac&refer=home
http://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=...ww&refer=stocks
http://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=...us&refer=stocks
http://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=...dk&refer=stocks







stay tuned: www.mortgageimplode.com


Posted by Electrophile on Aug-16-2007 17:29:

I sold all of my stock about 3 weeks just as the market was about to soften up. Sure enough, my main stock dropped over $2 a share on Monday but I had already cashed out before taking the loss.


Posted by ninetyninej on Aug-16-2007 17:41:

quote:
Originally posted by Electrophile
I sold all of my stock about 3 weeks just as the market was about to soften up. Sure enough, my main stock dropped over $2 a share on Monday but I had already cashed out before taking the loss.


yeah some friends of mine did the same thing, just in time too...

more news:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?...efer=realestate
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007.../ap4026187.html

Shares of Countrywide Countrywide Financial Corp, CFC, were trading down $3.19, or 15 percent, to $17.90 in morning trading on the New York Stock Exchange. They began the year at $42.45.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/20294824


Posted by djGT on Aug-16-2007 17:41:

Re: Next stop: Recession

Was it smart to give easy credit to everyone with a heartbeat? For those looking to buy a home sometime in the near future, be informed:

http://thehousingbubbleblog.com/

But it's not just housing that's affected, it's our entire economy, as well as international. Many 401Ks will be taking a big phat dump, including mine. Oh wait, it already has for the past few weeks, more pain to come for the next few years.

quote:
Originally posted by ninetyninej
stay tuned: www.mortgageimplode.com

Be careful of those hedge funds, but it's probably too late anyways.

http://hf-implode.com/


Posted by ninetyninej on Aug-16-2007 17:47:

Re: Re: Next stop: Recession

quote:
Originally posted by djGT
Was it smart to give easy credit to everyone with a heartbeat? For those looking to buy a home sometime in the near future, be informed:

http://thehousingbubbleblog.com/

But it's not just housing that's affected, it's our entire economy, as well as international. Many 401Ks will be taking a big phat dump, including mine. Oh wait, it already has for the past few weeks.


Be careful of those hedge funds, but it's probably too late anyways.

http://hf-implode.com/


Yeah, thats right ml-implode.com added hf-implode.com.

Bear Stearns hedge fund was reduced to rubble last month and merrill lynch reported that another hedge fund is about to melt down very soon.


Posted by djGT on Aug-16-2007 18:02:

Check out this site for an interesting read about the current economy:

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/

Wherever we're headed too, I hope the last stop isn't the next Great Depression.


Posted by ninetyninej on Aug-16-2007 18:21:

quote:
Originally posted by djGT
Check out this site for an interesting read about the current economy:

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/

Wherever we're headed too, I hope the last stop isn't the next Great Depression.


Yeah, in that YouTube clip a Moody's investment analyst was asked when is the last time we saw a year over year drop of this scale and he said "you'd have to go back to 1933 to the great depression."

At this point nothing would surprise me.


Posted by gimmebeatz on Aug-16-2007 18:23:

selling ur stocks just because the market it down is not the smart way to invest at all. if ur not planning on retiring right now, what the market is doing should be of no concern. im 23 and continually invest monthly with dollar cost averaging and it doesnt bother me at all when the market goes down, because all that means is that the stocks are "on sale" right now and when the market comes back up ill have bought even more shares from it being down. unless ur 60-65 and planning on retiring soon, this shouldnt matter at all to u.


Posted by |Thrax| on Aug-16-2007 18:30:

Sorry about your business, but on the bright side..

We knew this was coming because of all the subprimes, interest only and other bullshit they shove down the throats of the uneducated, fresh out of college.. etc.

maybe i'll be able to buy a house now.

p.s. I dont play stock markets.

p.s.s. ok I lied.. I forgot about my 401k... and bonds..



but still, shame on the morgage companies and the housing market.


Posted by naeblis on Aug-16-2007 18:35:

^^ Agreed! Buy low sell high, if you didn't already sell out back when we were up 14% for the year, it is probably not advantageous to sell out now, only to buy higher later. I say it's just jittery investors. The reason housing prices have decreased now, is TOTALLY different than the reasons during the great depression. It's people reporting news and making things sound bigger than they actually are. Investors are just too jittery imo...


Posted by ninetyninej on Aug-16-2007 18:40:

quote:
Originally posted by gimmebeatz
selling ur stocks just because the market it down is not the smart way to invest at all. if ur not planning on retiring right now, what the market is doing should be of no concern. im 23 and continually invest monthly with dollar cost averaging and it doesnt bother me at all when the market goes down, because all that means is that the stocks are "on sale" right now and when the market comes back up ill have bought even more shares from it being down. unless ur 60-65 and planning on retiring soon, this shouldnt matter at all to u.


you should invest heavily into Countrywide then (symbol: CFC)

buy Accredited (symbol: LEND) and NovaStar (symbol: NFI) stocks too, hurry!


Posted by 2tall on Aug-16-2007 18:54:

i sold ALL my stocks this morning, some at a decent loss . i've been too busy with work to research and follow my stocks lately (i'm kind of a wannabe day trader, or rather a weekly trader) and while i had shifted over into some solid stocks like BA, KO, CL... when I saw those moving down to more than just reactionary levels, I decided that I don't want to be babysitting my portfolio right now.

In general, I'm one of the most optimistic about the foundation for the US economy, and that we can withstand blows more easily than other nations/regions economies, but it's all just a bit to screwy lately.


Posted by 2tall on Aug-16-2007 18:56:

heh, just got back into BA (Boeing)...

i'm far from a panic, but i just need to find a few hours to sit down and read some analysis/research/news


Posted by ninetyninej on Aug-16-2007 18:57:

quote:
Originally posted by naeblis
^^ Agreed! Buy low sell high, if you didn't already sell out back when we were up 14% for the year, it is probably not advantageous to sell out now, only to buy higher later. I say it's just jittery investors. The reason housing prices have decreased now, is TOTALLY different than the reasons during the great depression. It's people reporting news and making things sound bigger than they actually are. Investors are just too jittery imo...


Very true, but things are as bad as they are being portrayed. In fact everyone has been in denial and everything happening now should've happened nearly a year ago.

Now what we have is a true liquidity crisis, which means all these lenders that sell loans on the secondary market, packaged up as mortgage backed CDOs aren't able to sell them. (for good cause because they are toxic waste and are backed by loans that should not have been given out, and the CDOs aren't performing and foreclosures are rising incredibly fast)

This is main reason you see all those lenders on that imploded list that closed their doors and/or filed Chapter 11 BK. The bad news is that all those borrowers that maybe should not have been give loans to buy homes and/or refi, now need to refi out of adjustable loans that jumped up already or will within the next year. No lenders will let them refi because guidelines got wayyyyyy too tight and rates jumped up a stagering amount in the last month due to the fact that no one will buy the loans on the back end. So whats left is most people will have no choice but to foreclose or short sale their home because they can't afford the new soaring payment and all the lenders turned their backs on them. This will cause homes to drop another 20% in the next year or two.

We are in for a verrrry difficult couple years. And an economic depression (simply meaning that the looming recession lasts for 3 or more quarters) is possible despite the differences of the Great Depression.


Posted by djGT on Aug-16-2007 19:03:

quote:
Originally posted by naeblis
^^ Agreed! Buy low sell high, if you didn't already sell out back when we were up 14% for the year, it is probably not advantageous to sell out now, only to buy higher later. I say it's just jittery investors. The reason housing prices have decreased now, is TOTALLY different than the reasons during the great depression. It's people reporting news and making things sound bigger than they actually are. Investors are just too jittery imo...

Maybe the prices are decreasing because there's an affordability problem? Maybe the people that bought in the last few years shouldn't be given a loan in the first place, driving up all the prices? I could be wrong though.

http://blogs.ocregister.com/lansner/

O.C. MEDIAN PRICE $640,000 for all of July 2007

To put things in perspective, it wasn't too long ago that my girl's parents bought their house right next to South Coast Plaza for 300K in 2000 (before the bubbaly bubbaly boo). It's probably now "worth" over 700K. Yeah, their incomes have gone up that much.

Anyone remember the last downturn in the early 90's to mid 90's? I don't, I was too busy with homework and stuff. But reading back, it looks oddly familiar to what's happening now, except this time, prepare for a steeper rollercoaster ride!


Posted by naeblis on Aug-16-2007 19:12:

Not get nitpicky about verbage, but I don't necessarily characterize this downturn as a 'depression'. When people hear depression, they think of the abysmal conditions people were facing in the 30's. We don't even know if this is going to be a recession, yet alone a depression.

GDP is still up, see: http://www.bea.gov/national/nipaweb...r=2007&Freq=Qtr

As far as unemployment read: http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

Maybe the effects haven't hit? The market is notoriously over emotional at times, and so I guess I will wait and see how it plays out... I think it is far too early to be crying depression, or anything like that.


Posted by djGT on Aug-16-2007 19:14:

here's a nice chart if you like rollercoasters:


Posted by naeblis on Aug-16-2007 19:20:

I don't see that as particularly helpful, because median home price in 1920 was nothing like it is now-a-days. I mean, a 100,000 dollar home back in the day was a mansion of opulence and luxury, where as today things are much different, a comparison of wages now and then, would most likely show the same difference.


Posted by ninetyninej on Aug-16-2007 19:24:

quote:
Originally posted by naeblis
Not get nitpicky about verbage, but I don't necessarily characterize this downturn as a 'depression'. When people hear depression, they think of the abysmal conditions people were facing in the 30's. We don't even know if this is going to be a recession, yet alone a depression.

GDP is still up, see: http://www.bea.gov/national/nipaweb...r=2007&Freq=Qtr

As far as unemployment read: http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

Maybe the effects haven't hit? The market is notoriously over emotional at times, and so I guess I will wait and see how it plays out... I think it is far too early to be crying depression, or anything like that.


Well recession is what I was saying is inevitable at this rate and with all the foreclosures and their affect on stocks/economy (see topic title)

As for depression, we'll see but like I said earlier, it is possible and would not surprise me.

And in reference to your comments on that chart of home values, yes the income is now greater but you're not considering basic inflation and recession facts. You can't have inflation and home price appreciation as we've had the last 5 years and expect to not have a recession.


Posted by djGT on Aug-16-2007 19:28:

The chart has been adjusted for inflation which affects wages and such.


Posted by |Thrax| on Aug-16-2007 20:17:

You cannot afford to buy a house in socal, period.. not even making the median income for your area... even dinks are having a hardtime unless the combined household income is over 150k.

American Home Morgage.. those ****s.


Posted by JD8899 on Aug-16-2007 21:41:

quote:
Originally posted by djGT
The chart has been adjusted for inflation which affects wages and such.


Yah, but has it been adjusted for square footage? How many people today are buying new 3 bedroom homes that are 1200 square feet (pretty common in 1950)?


Posted by djGT on Aug-16-2007 22:26:

quote:
Originally posted by JD8899
Yah, but has it been adjusted for square footage? How many people today are buying new 3 bedroom homes that are 1200 square feet (pretty common in 1950)?

Not sure, but I don't think anyone is buying a home today, new or old, with no money down, no matter what square footage.


Posted by Zombie0729 on Aug-16-2007 23:07:

i'm in mortgages and a rule we always live by is 'as long as something is happening we're ok'

whether it's drasticly bad or good, as long as its not stagnant there's business to be made.

i've done over 8 purchases just in the last 2 mos, 4 short sales and 1 foreclosure, there are some very good deals out there right now.


Posted by ninetyninej on Aug-17-2007 00:46:

quote:
Originally posted by Zombie0729

i've done over 8 purchases just in the last 2 mos, 4 short sales and 1 foreclosure, there are some very good deals out there right now.



4 short sales and 1 foreclosure = property value driven into the ground causing everyone within half mile to loose equity further reduce their qualifications to refi out of their ARM/Neg-am loans, which I'm sure most are.

So although I'm glad you have some nice sized commission checks on the way, this only proves that the 'purchase market influx' is mainly these type of loans and this is perpetuating the problem.

I too am doing more purchases but I'm not happy with what I'm finding in regards to property values, borrower qualifications, and lender liquidity.



http://drhousingbubble.blogspot.com...ion-letter.html
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/it?s=CFC
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?...id=afY3yBmTZKbQ
http://www.huliq.com/30783/first-ma...iles-bankruptcy
http://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=....F_g&refer=home


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