TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Production Studio
-- Sending out demos... (master the demo or not???)-related to loudness war
Pages (2): [1] 2 »

Sending out demos... (master the demo or not???)-related to loudness war

something that i have been wondering...


when you go on a download store like beatport, the tracks that are loudest are often the ones that stand out. a particularly quiet sample of a track can put me off buying the track.

now, with regards to demo submission, do you think it is worth doing a half arsed mastering job so the track is loud (throw the mixdown through a eq/comp/limiter). when i say half arsed, i dont mean squash the shit out of it and turn a nice mixdown into shit, but more to push it up in perceived loudness. just so quietness isnt a turn off for the a+r guy.

do you guys think is this worth doing? with maybe a note in the info saying 'unmastered'. or is it best to send a 320k mixdown that is untouched as far as comp/limiting on the output stage is concerned, even if the mix is quite quiet?

i did my mixdown and added a limiter on it then sent to the label. then once i got word back got it signed etc they asked for the wav file which i sent without the limiter as big labels do the mastering anyway.

if it sounds good it sounds good, whatever it takes to make it sound good you should do.

Hey Rich,

You should probably take the time to make it sound as good as possible, every bit of wow factor counts. If it gets signed any of the major guys will master it for you just like the previous poster stated.

With regards to loudness there is a slight backlash against that at the moment.
You obviously don't need to squash the shit out of it but bring it up so that it sounds proffesional. At least to the majority of ears in any case.

I'm sure you know but the majority of the hard work is all in the mix down anyway, that's not intended to lessen the skill of a true mastering engineer though.

Cheers
Nem

its generally recommended you make it as loud as u can, cause of psychological factor, which is that loud music is percepted as better.

quote:

Originally posted by sterilis i did my mixdown and added a limiter on it then sent to the label. then once i got word back got it signed etc they asked for the wav file which i sent without the limiter as big labels do the mastering anyway.

ditto

Didn't J00F have something to day about this? "Don't do it" I think was what he said..

quote:

Originally posted by sterilis i did my mixdown and added a limiter on it then sent to the label. then once i got word back got it signed etc they asked for the wav file which i sent without the limiter as big labels do the mastering anyway.

thats it.

As said, limit it. Try to get the best out of it as every little thing counts...

There is a reason why product presentations involving audio are recommended to be done at fairly high volume . It sounds better to the client thus sells better. There is no reason to not do it. You are in fact trying to sell yourself.

First of all I think a good AR would not be put off my a lower volume of a demo...they should be able to tell how it will sound mastered...

then...I say do some kind of mastering, don't over-do it for the demos though! Just bring up the level with some limiter on your master...AR will spot it and see that it's just it and you didn't try to do half-assed mastering job...

Also...doing too much more without having precise knowledge of mastering can make your track sound much worse...

At least that's my view...

if mastering isn't your strongest field, i suggest not to do anything more than maybe normalize it. you can really ruin a track with bad mastering, make it sound a lot worse than it is. mixing for instance will come messier the more you compress your track.

good a&r will know if the track has potential even if it isn't mastered, or even mixed well enough.

really a matter of making sound the best you can i think.

you gotta make them want to sign it

What labels actually master their artist's tracks? I know some of the major ones do. Smaller labels, and maybe even some larger ones, can't afford extra production costs like mastering. An A&R told me it costs something like $125 an hour for pro mastering. There's no guarantees that a song will sell enough to recoup production expenses, so it's too risky of an investment.

I would think that if you are submitting a demo to a label that you know does the mastering, then just normalize it and that's all. If you are sending demos to smaller labels, do a bit of mastering, bring the volume up, ect. You're going to have to do it yourself anyway, if they accept the track.

quote:

Originally posted by zodiac9 What labels actually master their artist's tracks?

every real label. and even the small ones have atleast one experienced artist (as a label boss / a&r / just in the roster) to do the job semi-good.

and yeah professional mastering costs just too much, the prices i've heard are in the same level as what a remix payment would cost from a bigger name.

professonal mastering a wav file and sending back the file can cost as little as �25 per track. i have found an awsome place that charge �150 for 3 tracks and this allows you to sit in during the mastering process.

Oh yeah? Do tell! :-)

quote:

Originally posted by a98 every real label. and even the small ones have atleast one experienced artist (as a label boss / a&r / just in the roster) to do the job semi-good. and yeah professional mastering costs just too much, the prices i've heard are in the same level as what a remix payment would cost from a bigger name.

hhhmmm, I guess the label I deal with is not a "real" label. It's a small digital label. I've only dealt with that one so far. I do believe a label should make sure every track is properly mastered, even if the A&R or owner has to do it. There are a lot of labels that leave the mastering to the artist though, some of them aren't even that small. I know this first hand from chatting with producers I know.

quote:

Originally posted by richg101 professonal mastering a wav file and sending back the file can cost as little as �25 per track. i have found an awsome place that charge �150 for 3 tracks and this allows you to sit in during the mastering process.

I know about the $25 per track one, I wonder how good it is. Sounds like they do a rush job. Now the other one you mentioned, 3 tracks for $150 and you get to sit in, that sounds good. You can usually find a studio in your area that will let you sit in. A label has to be really confident in a track to spend even 25$ on production costs. A lot of medium to small labels have no production budget at all.

quote:

Originally posted by zodiac9 hhhmmm, I guess the label I deal with is not a "real" label. It's a small digital label. I've only dealt with that one so far. I do believe a label should make sure every track is properly mastered, even if the A&R or owner has to do it. There are a lot of labels that leave the mastering to the artist though, some of them aren't even that small. I know this first hand from chatting with producers I know. I know about the $25 per track one, I wonder how good it is. Sounds like they do a rush job. Now the other one you mentioned, 3 tracks for $150 and you get to sit in, that sounds good. You can usually find a studio in your area that will let you sit in. A label has to be really confident in a track to spend even 25$ on production costs. A lot of medium to small labels have no production budget at all.

i doubt the guy who does the mastering @25� is gonna spend massive amounts of time on tracks, but id bet money that it is a sideline job he does alongside maybe a studio job. if he gets four orders a week he can spent 15 mins per track and earn 100� on top of his main wage. the place where i went for one mastering session made me feel a little down seeing him doing the work in 5mins and getting paid 4 times what i earn for an hour. he had the gear he needed and used it efficiently and i expect he spent the same time on SVD's grasshopper the week before! these guys are beasts behind the right gear.

i think �25 is worth it because i have heard music mastered by them and it sounds great in live sets. its worth �25 just for the impartial look at the tracks, and the 320k preview system allows the customer to check the quality before paying.

Not exactly on topic but can we stop calling it a loudness "war".

There is no war.

Let's just lump it together with war on drugs, war on terrorism, etc, and come up with something better, eh?

I dunno, it's senseless violence, and in the loudness war there are only victims and losers, no winners.

quote:

Originally posted by richg101 i doubt the guy who does the mastering @25� is gonna spend massive amounts of time on tracks, but id bet money that it is a sideline job he does alongside maybe a studio job. if he gets four orders a week he can spent 15 mins per track and earn 100� on top of his main wage. the place where i went for one mastering session made me feel a little down seeing him doing the work in 5mins and getting paid 4 times what i earn for an hour. he had the gear he needed and used it efficiently and i expect he spent the same time on SVD's grasshopper the week before! these guys are beasts behind the right gear. i think �25 is worth it because i have heard music mastered by them and it sounds great in live sets. its worth �25 just for the impartial look at the tracks, and the 320k preview system allows the customer to check the quality before paying.

OK, sounds good. I've never heard anyone comment on the results. They truly must be "beasts", as you say. Most of the tedius and time consuming work is done during mixdown when you think about it, EQing, compression, ect.

The next time I go label hunting, I will only go with one that is willing to have my tracks mastered. That should be the label's responsibilty. Keeping with the original topic here, I am going to do a little bit of simple mastering on my tracks when I submit them to labels. A little limiting to bring the loudness up, a bit of exciter on the high end, and maybe a teeny midrange boost. Like said here, it is a good idea to make your tracks sound as good as possible. So long as you don't ruin them with a bad mastering job.

quote:

Originally posted by zodiac9 I am going to do a little bit of simple mastering on my tracks when I submit them to labels. A little limiting to bring the loudness up, a bit of exciter on the high end, and maybe a teeny midrange boost.

that's not exactly the right way to do it. to achieve the best sound possible you should be able to fix those frequency spectrum problems in the mixing stage, while you are making the track (and eqing the sounds).

doing eqing in the mastering phase is only needed if the mixing is done badly. but ofcourse if you happen to compress some of the bass frequences off, you can boost them back with an eq.

Anyway guys... We just have to produce amazing tracks...
Mastered or not, If it's a hit... it will be sign ;-)

quote:

Originally posted by a98 that's not exactly the right way to do it. to achieve the best sound possible you should be able to fix those frequency spectrum problems in the mixing stage, while you are making the track (and eqing the sounds). doing eqing in the mastering phase is only needed if the mixing is done badly. but ofcourse if you happen to compress some of the bass frequences off, you can boost them back with an eq.

eq is almost always done in mastering, usually with 32band eq or other mastering eq. what do ya think those eqs are for? thats far more controll than needed for single sounds.

quote:

Originally posted by mysticalninja eq is almost always done in mastering, usually with 32band eq or other mastering eq. what do ya think those eqs are for? thats far more controll than needed for single sounds.

it's only done if it's needed. they don't boost something for just the heck of it. the ultimate situation is that you don't have to do anything. you wouldn't use a de-esser, noise reduction or a noise gate for instance if there is no need would you?

but if you wanna keep doing bassless songs and boost them up in the mastering phase when it affects every sound in the song, be my guest..

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.