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Not to stir up some more heat...

but I'm really getting sick of hearing DJs (especially bigtime and local) say that using Ableton for DJing is cheating. J00F said on his latest Electronic Grooves "I didn't cheat and use Ableton Live or anything like that, used good old Pioneer CDJ decks." What the fuck... get over your magical fader pushing powers


Spending at least 10 minutes on warping a track, then effecting/editing it to hell just somehow does not sound like cheating in my opinion.

We all know where this thread could go.

But yeah, I'm fucking tired of it too. Though I will say DJ Enferno can do some impressive live remixing on mostly analog equipment.

Re: Not to stir up some more heat...

quote:

Originally posted by iammesol Spending at least 10 minutes on warping a track, then effecting/editing it to hell just somehow does not sound like cheating in my opinion.

its all done before a gig though then u just push play i think thats what alot of djs are doing with it and nothing else thats the problem people have with it.

quote:

Spending at least 10 minutes on warping a track

huh? it takes like 10 seconds...

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec huh? it takes like 10 seconds...

my thoughts + what sleepydragon said


Furthermore, I think mixing with Ableton is boring as hell

Well, there's no doubt that ableton makes mixing a hell of a lot easier to the point where all one need do is push play. However, I agree that DJs saying this is a bad thing is complete and utter bullshit. The job of a DJ is not to brag about how skilled they are at beatmatching and mixing, it is to provide a continuous, danceable rhythm. This possible in Ableton, even easy, making it a better tool for DJs than decks and CDJs. So Luddite DJs should really stop acting cool because they "don't cheat."

For the record, I'm not saying that people should only use Ableton. Use decks if you want, but don't get all high and mighty while you do it.

This topic is as tired as Sean Tyas.

myth: Ableton mixes for you

reality: Ableton beatmatches for you, you still have to do all of your own fading and eqing etc...everything and anything a dj using decks would do, but you CAN do more because in theory you have an infinite number of decks and god knows how much more cooler effects and techniques. its
up to the user to elaborate and use ableton to his advantage.

myth: you cant cheat with CDJs

reality: yes you can! the beat detection in the pioneer cdj1000s is so good that all you have to do is move the pitch slider up just enough to change it to the next bpm and do the same with the other deck and boom instantly synced tempo (and the more precise the decimal the better i.e. +8,+10,+16). as long as you are playing direct from the master mp3s (beatport etc) it will sync up perfectly 98% of the time. vinyl rips dont work though.


in summation, ableton and cdjs are at the same level of "cheatability" if you ask me.

quote:

Originally posted by Blake_Jarrell in summation, ableton and cdjs are at the same level of "cheatability" if you ask me.

/thread - Thanks for playing everyone

DJs are a self-important bunch of wankers, aren't they?

i've used them both and will use them both again. the only thing that i wouldn't do and only b/c i am a nobody and hence forth feel like i should pay my dues is warping tracks. but i mean honestly, people like halliwell and etc that warp tracks should be allowed. they've been around long enough, who cares.

halliwell uses ableton?

what i AM sick of is advertising that a dj is going to perform "live," but all they end up doing is use ableton. for me, a live set has to significantly incorporate somthing other than cds, vinyls, or a computer - be it vocals, instruments, synthesizers, drum machines, effects boards, whatev - more than just an ableton controller. maybe im just old school, but i think instead of having a [Live] by their name on a flyer, it should say [Ableton]

quote:

Originally posted by TheKidsWantTechno what i AM sick of is advertising that a dj is going to perform "live," but all they end up doing is use ableton. for me, a live set has to significantly incorporate somthing other than cds, vinyls, or a computer - be it vocals, instruments, synthesizers, drum machines, effects boards, whatev. maybe im just old school, but i think instead of having a [Live] by their name on a flyer, it should say [Ableton]

it depends on the example, but if somebody's didn't use any of that to produce the music, you can't expect him to suddenly pull out a bunch of hardware for a show.

The main difference, from a listener's perspective, is the music you can expect to hear, so even though 'live' might not be the greatest label, you still need some distinction for sets comprised of mostly if not all original material.

quote:

Originally posted by inconspicuous it depends on the example, but if somebody's didn't use any of that to produce the music, you can't expect him to suddenly pull out a bunch of hardware for a show.

A lot of electronic bands use live instruments such a drum kits and bass guitars to replicate their music live. These instruments weren't used on the record but they are to make the music "live". I agree that a live show should be a live show, not just a glorified DJ set comprised entirely of your own music.

quote:

Originally posted by inconspicuous The main difference, from a listener's perspective, is the music you can expect to hear, so even though 'live' might not be the greatest label, you still need some distinction for sets comprised of mostly if not all original material.

I can agree with that, but it raises another point - there seems to be more and more people doing "live" (not DJ) sets in Ableton, and essentially none of them are doing anything interesting at all. In fact quite the opposite, they've been some of the worst shows I have ever seen in my life.

quote:

Originally posted by RJT I can agree with that, but it raises another point - there seems to be more and more people doing "live" (not DJ) sets in Ableton, and essentially none of them are doing anything interesting at all. In fact quite the opposite, they've been some of the worst shows I have ever seen in my life.

ya, i think you'd have to be incredibly versatile and a master of ableton, but even moreso, have a ridiculous armory of self-made loops/samples/evrything to play with to make one of these "live" ableton acts original and interesting. sure, a lot of people produce with ableton. and there's a lot of djs that can rip a pretty serious dj set using it as a tool. but i have yet to see someone that can put on a really impressive "live" using ableton alone

The worst show I have ever seen in my life was an Ableton "live" show - and it quite literally caused the club to empty within the first 15 to 20 minutes.

Just pitiful, I felt embarrassed for the guy.

well, Matthew Dear pulled off the best set I've heard in person, doing the live/ableton deal.

quote:

Originally posted by TheKidsWantTechno ya, i think you'd have to be incredibly versatile and a master of ableton, but even moreso, have a ridiculous armory of self-made loops/samples/evrything to play with to make one of these "live" ableton acts original and interesting.

he was in the middle of a ton of production right around that time, so he had a lot to work with. The other main thing is that somebody like that has a wider range of stuff to use than somebody sticking to one sound, under one name...or off of one album, like a lot of people do.

Come on now, you have to know Mathew Dear is almost always going to be the exception and not the rule. Comparing to what I saw amounts to comparing Mozart with Tay Zonday.

quote:

Originally posted by RJT Come on now, you have to know Mathew Dear is almost always going to be the exception and not the rule. Comparing to what I saw amounts to comparing Mozart with Tay Zonday.

I'm just saying...it can definitely be done with just a mixer & a laptop.

I don't disagree - but there aren't very many people who can do it well.

I guess. I haven't seen anybody else try, so I'm always a bit surprised when everyone rips on it, because that's what I'm going by

hey, i like tay zonday

quote:

Originally posted by TheKidsWantTechno hey, i like tay zonday

what if he switches to ableton?

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