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Voting?

Talk about the upcoming provincial election/referendum came up between myself and a friend. And her response to the matter was something along the lines of "I don't know/care enough" to vote.

The lack of concern and participation by people our age in the political process is pretty sad imo. The fact is, it matters and we SHOULD care. It's not that difficult to pick up a newspaper and read a little bit about what's going on in the world outside of Britney Spears' MTV performance and shit like that.

So, who's voting? And do you find it important?

I don't buy into the "everybody should vote" thing. There are far too many people out there who simply don't do their homework, don't understand the platforms or ideologies of the various parties, don't bother to find out anything about their local candidate, don't understand the issues, etc and end up voting based on advertisments, sound bites and the leader's image. IMO if you are ill-equiped to make an informed decision then you shouldn't vote (that said, everyone should take the proper time to be able to make an informed decision). The long and short of it is... democracy only works if the electorate is informed.

BTW, I'm interested to hear if anyone has any thoughts on the mixed member proportional representation issue.... the most important question put to the citizens of Ontario in decades.

I agree with you 100%. Whomever votes should know what they're voting for and why.

The problem is not enough people take the time to make an informed decision and vote. They'd rather not vote at all... which i guess is better than voting uninformed... still its sad that people dont care.

It feels like more people would rather vote for Canadian Idol than their own politicians. lol

I vote, but to be honest, I've never been too interested in politics. They way I see it, they all lie through their teeth anyway, so I've lost faith in politics. I'll usually vote against the party who fucked up the most last term.

quote:

Originally posted by Moral Hazard I don't buy into the "everybody should vote" thing. There are far too many people out there who simply don't do their homework, don't understand the platforms or ideologies of the various parties, don't bother to find out anything about their local candidate, don't understand the issues, etc and end up voting based on advertisments, sound bites and the leader's image. IMO if you are ill-equiped to make an informed decision then you shouldn't vote (that said, everyone should take the proper time to be able to make an informed decision). The long and short of it is... democracy only works if the electorate is informed.

I agree to what you saying almost entirely.

The only time when I feel it may not matter (to an extent) is when the voter is voting because of for one key issue in particular that affects them (and probably strongly I'd guess).

For example, lets polarize the issue of gay marriage. Pretend only one party, the Liberals, supported it. ALL the other parties were opposed to it.

And pretend this issue is key and very important to an individual. Though they may know nothing else about the Liberal party, or the other parties, it doesnt matter. This is the issue that impacts them and the one that they absolutely want to see treated in their interest. I dont think they should be prevented from voting bc they were uninformed on the other issues... because they are voting to affect change for themselves in an educated maner at least on that one point.

(Though, granted, of course, it would be far better for them to understand the rest of all teh parties' platforms to make an even more knowledgeable vote (ie. understand what ELSE voting for the Liberal party might mean for them, good or bad))

You don't vote, you don't have a right to bitch whenever govt fucks you over.

If you don't care to get informed about basics of what's going on with the govt, and since govt decisions affect you one way or another most of the time, you don't care about what happens to you, so you don't deserve to whine about the govt

I will be voting and will vote "NO" to the electoral system changes.

quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker I will be voting and will vote "NO" to the electoral system changes.

Do you care to share your reasoning?

quote:

Originally posted by Moral Hazard Do you care to share your reasoning?

I'm voting no too.

Theoretically, the MP is suppose to represent their riding in the govt and I know in reality rarely that happens for back benchers, but at least you can still talk to MPs and visit their offices with your concerns and whatnot. And sometimes, you can make your case heard and get the MPs to help you out.

Now this representative voting thing, there will be more parties getting seats yes and maybe they do have valid views. But all they will be doing is pushing the party lines, not necessarily what the avg citizens wants to see. More risk of parties pushing ideas that is out of touch with what the avg joes want

quote:

Originally posted by Moral Hazard Do you care to share your reasoning?

There are many reasons I do not support changing our electoral system.

One main reason why I will be voting "NO" on the referendum is as follows:

CONSTITUANTCY PARTICIPATION AND ACTIVITY

In our current electoral system - MPPs are very active within their constituency as it is the key method by which they get re-elected. Without being active, vocal and engaging their constituents (read: representing the people who voted for them) MPs have a hard time regaining their seats at election time.

With mixed-member proportional - a certain number of MPPs are seated due to being "list-elected" (the list members make up the proportional representation for the party). List-elected MPPs did not win the riding vote and thus do not have the same re-election constituency activity motivators (as being active in the constituency is not what gave them the seat). List-elected members tend to focus on special interest groups, party funding/promotion and over-politicization of parliament (as their constituency activity does not impact re-election - since they were not elected by their constituents).

Having MPPs who are not primarily focused on constituents is a detriment to the political process. The point of voting is for an MPP-elect is to make them answer for the previous work they have done (or not done). It is a disservice to have people in parliament who have not been (or will not be) directly held to account by the people who voted for them. Individual (as well as party) responsibility is key for any electoral system.

quote:

Originally posted by EvilTree You don't vote, you don't have a right to bitch whenever govt fucks you over. If you don't care to get informed about basics of what's going on with the govt, and since govt decisions affect you one way or another most of the time, you don't care about what happens to you, so you don't deserve to whine about the govt

I very well may not vote this time....however...I will still get my ballot and then advise them that I am declining to vote...I feel that I am still entitled to bitch about the government as I will have voiced my opinion that I feel none of the parties are worthy to represent this province.

I agree that if you just sit at home and don't bother to even get your ballot then yes you don't have a right to bitch.

I am in agreement with the both of you. Additionally, I fear that the list system involved gives too much discressionary power to the leaders of the various parties. Moreover, Proportional representation, even mixed member proportional representation, tends to be a minority government machine. This ends up slowing the process down and creating more avenues for pressure groups to exert influence.

Now that my views are on the table, I ask whether anyone feels differently then the three of us. I would love to hear from them.

Additionally, how do you gentlemen respond to the argument that MMPR creates greater democracy by allowing less established parties to have a greater chance of being represented in the legislature?

quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker With mixed-member proportional - a certain number of MPPs are seated due to being "list-elected" (the list members make up the proportional representation for the party). List-elected MPPs did not win the riding vote...

It's also important to consider how parties can manipulate their "list"... Placing party "friends" into candidate positions in areas they expect to lose so that when it comes time to award list seats the party friends get spots in parliament.

Overall the list concept just doesn't make sense.

Our current system is best: One vote, one MPP to answer to the constituents. Only elected officials should be representing the people.

There's a lot of TAs I know who aren't eligible to vote, so I would suggest your poll to say 'if elligible'.

not a citizen

but honestly, the issues i'm concerned about have not come up to the degree i feel is necessary by any of the parties.

Re: Voting?

quote:

Originally posted by m2j It's not that difficult to pick up a newspaper and read a little bit about what's going on in the world outside of Britney Spears' MTV performance and shit like that.

I think it's far, far more dangerous for people to be voting based on a handful of newspaper articles than it is for those people to just not vote.

I'm still on the fence about the electoral reform. I understand all of the disadvantages, but proportional representation probably would have stopped the government from cramming through garbage legislation like the City of Toronto Act. Yes, it slows the process down, but there are reasons why the process should be slow... so many of the worst political decisions are often made in haste, or rammed through so quickly that nobody has a chance to debate the issues.

Decisions, decisions...

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