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You think Muslim fundamentalists are bad?! Check out the whackos in America!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7013402.stm

American Christians encouraging the rape of a young girl (and this time it's not even done by Catholic priests!!!), marrying their cousins (yee ha!) and apparently with the "approval" of the federal authorities who refuse to act against them.

I dunno, I hear everyday Americans criticising other cultures for harbouring religious fundamentalists but it seems like most of the world's fundamentalists are right there in America! (Running the government no less!!)

They will oppose Islamists coming to power in Middle Eastern countries cos they see that as a direct threat to America, but put yourself in their shoes, they must think exactly the same when they see Christian fundamentalists win power in America then they actually do set off on a war against the Middle East!!!

Oh yea, mustn't forget to check the Rapture Index to see how clsoe we are to Armagedden...

http://www.raptureready.com/rap2.html

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01 False Christs A gentleman in Florida has made news by claiming to be Christ. 03 Satanism: The lack of activity has downgraded this category. 33 Beast Government The lack of activity has downgraded this category.

At 156 we can expect "Heavy prophetic activity"

Maybe we should just have one massive thread dedicated to bashing all American fundies, then we could do what the right-wingers do in their Muslim bashing threads and apply our piss taking out of Christian fundamentalists to ALL Christians and then follow the pattern to make it ALL Americans?

shallow...or whats a good British term?...daft!

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Originally posted by Q5echo shallow...or whats a good British term?...daft!

I have no idea who you are referring to but "shallow" and "daft" have two completely seperate meanings and can never be used to describe the other...

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Originally posted by George Smiley I have no idea who you are referring to

who are you refering to as "Christian Fundamentalist in power"?

...and to one degree, being intellectually "shallow" enough can lead to one being described as "daft" most definately.

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Originally posted by Q5echo who are you refering to as "Christian Fundamentalist in power"? ...and to one degree, being intellectually "shallow" enough can lead to one being described as "daft" most definately.

George Bush...

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/inte...1075950,00.html

OMFG dude you have no idea what a Christian fundamentalist is do you?

so the guy is born again and as a politician he wears his faith on his sleeve. big f**kin deal. that doesn't mean he's anymore religious than any other President we've had or PM you've had.

shallow is not having a frikken clue as to how the Christian right in this country has influenced every Presidency since Adams.

you ever heard Bill Clinton talk about God and his faith? probably not.

sorry we have the most cultually diverse and one of the most secular governments of the industrialized nations, but ffs to use Warren Jeffs as a f**kin social barometer of how we Americans exist as a body politic is about as shallow as anyone outside looking in can get.

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Originally posted by Q5echo OMFG dude you have no idea what a Christian fundamentalist is do you? so the guy is born again and as a politician he wears his faith on his sleeve. big f**kin deal. that doesn't mean he's anymore religious than any other President we've had or PM you've had.

So what you're saying is that all your Presidents have been religious nutters? And no, even tho our PMs might be religious, they certainly don't go around saying "God chose me" or "God told me to invade Iraq so I did" (which are sure fire indicators of being a religious nutter no?), in fact, British politicians tend to keep their religious beliefs away from the public and it becomes a scandal if we find out!!

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shallow is not having a frikken clue as to how the Christian right in this country has influenced every Presidency since Adams.

I'm well aware of the Christian Right thank you (altho probably not as knowledgable as you). But even if I didn't - what's your point?

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you ever heard Bill Clinton talk about God and his faith? probably not.

Is Bill Clinton back as President? I must have missed that one!

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sorry we have the most cultually diverse and one of the most secular governments of the industrialized nations

Secular does not mean not religious. It means a seperation of Chuch and State, something I suspect the current US regime are not entirely in favour of considering the funding of Christian schools and the promotion of creationism. And like I said, when a leader of a nation says that he invaded another country and killed 1000s because "God told him to" is beyond all reasonable doubt the actions of a religious fundamentalist, would you not agree?

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but ffs to use Warren Jeffs as a f**kin social barometer of how we Americans exist as a body politic is about as shallow as anyone outside looking in can get.

To be honest that's not what I was saying. I saw that article, made me laugh about Americans complaining about Islamic fundies when religious fundies are found in abundance in America. And I was just on a roll bout religious fundamentalists in America so thought I'd mention that the country voted a religious fundamentalist as their President (which I find incredibly ironic considering what the country as a whole thinks about religious fundamentalists outside their borders)

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You think Muslim fundamentalists are bad?! Check out the whackos in America!!

This 'connection' is so far off, I don't even know where to start.
Like pointing out such a small group of 'Christian' (I use this term with great reservation) people somehow gives credence to Muslim extremists.

And trying to connect this group of people to the presidency and stating it like it's the norm? Wow.
I'll admit there are wackos out there but lets not make wild assumptions either.

Now go back to buying your tea and toad-in-a-hole with your family allowance

...wanker...

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r This 'connection' is so far off, I don't even know where to start. Like pointing out such a small group of 'Christian' (I use this term with great reservation) people somehow gives credence to Muslim extremists. And trying to connect this group of people to the presidency and stating it like it's the norm? Wow. I'll admit there are wackos out there but lets not make wild assumptions either. Now go back to buying your tea and toad-in-a-hole with your family allowance ...wanker...

Who' giving credence to Muslim extremists?

And if you'd bothered to read my last post you'd know I wasn't trying to connect the two

Anyway, America has a religious fundamentalist as President - agree?

Re: You think Muslim fundamentalists are bad?! Check out the whackos in America!!

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Originally posted by George Smiley http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7013402.stm American Christians encouraging the rape of a young girl (and this time it's not even done by Catholic priests!!!), marrying their cousins (yee ha!) and apparently with the "approval" of the federal authorities who refuse to act against them.

This is a sect George. Not at all the norm. and whats the matter anyways?? Don't Muslims do the whole, arrange marriages? Is it not their own so called "true" prophet married and had sex with a 9 year old girl?? Don't these same Muslims also circumcise new born baby girls?? Muslim fathers marry off their daughters at early ages, don't they?? Muslims stone girls that want to be educated, don't they?? I can go on and on.

Does the US have "moral" police men walking the streets and beating women for letting their ankles show??
I can kiss my woman in public and not be scared of some religious nut job beating and jailing me......unlike in Muslim Countries..

Come ow George, you are desperate and to compare this small sect of Christianity to what you perceive as American is stupid.

Oh yeah by the way, these sick focks were Convicted of their crimes. Who convicts your Muslims of honor killings, stoning and hangings that are done in the name of their god??

I can see what you are trying to do here....... you cheaky lil boy

Re: Re: You think Muslim fundamentalists are bad?! Check out the whackos in America!!

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Originally posted by LazFX This is a sect George. Not at all the norm. and whats the matter anyways?? Don't Muslims do the whole, arrange marriages? Is it not their own so called "true" prophet married and had sex with a 9 year old girl?? Don't these same Muslims also circumcise new born baby girls?? Muslim fathers marry off their daughters at early ages, don't they?? Muslims stone girls that want to be educated, don't they?? I can go on and on.

Like I said, I wasn't connecting the two (altho of course I see why people may think that). It was just a general thread about religious nutters in America: this sect, your president, the Rapturists, etc. I thought it would be fun!

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I can see what you are trying to do here....... you cheaky lil boy

All in good time my friend, all in good time...

Re: Re: Re: You think Muslim fundamentalists are bad?! Check out the whackos in Ameri

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Originally posted by George Smiley Like I said, I wasn't connecting the two (altho of course I see why people may think that). It was just a general thread about religious nutters in America: this sect, your president, the Rapturists, etc. I thought it would be fun!

Well I am all about pointing out absurdities of all religions..

Re: Re: Re: Re: You think Muslim fundamentalists are bad?! Check out the whackos in A

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Originally posted by LazFX Well I am all about pointing out absurdities of all religions..

In that case, does it not strike you as incredibly frightening that you have a President who claims he hears voices in his head talking to him telling him what to do? Or even scarier, that those voices told him to take the nation to war and he did? Now I don't know much about what goes on inside America's borders, but if that's who you have running the country it must be an absolute nightmare to live in that kind of society!

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Originally posted by George Smiley Secular does not mean not religious. It means a seperation of Chuch and State, something I suspect the current US regime are not entirely in favour of considering the funding of Christian schools and the promotion of creationism.

Now, now, glass houses and stones my friend. It seems rather odd for a Brit to criticize the US for not seperating church and state... after-all your head of state (and mine) is titled "Defender of the Faith" and is the head of, not one but, two christian churches.


BTW, I don't disagree with you, I just wanted to point out that bit of irony.

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard Now, now, glass houses and stones my friend. It seems rather odd for a Brit to criticize the US for not seperating church and state... after-all your head of state (and mine) is titled "Defender of the Faith" and is the head of, not one but, two christian churches. BTW, I don't disagree with you, I just wanted to point out that bit of irony.

But I'm not criticising the seperation of Church and State! Of course not!

(And my "head of state" is a purely symbolic and powerless position!)

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Originally posted by George Smiley But I'm not criticising the seperation of Church and State! Of course not! (And my "head of state" is a purely symbolic and powerless position!)

You've criticising the US for failing to seperate church and state... all I'm pointing out is that the UK (and the commonwealth) also fail spectacularly in that regard. Symbolic or no, the head of state is the head of state... officially the crown is in charge of both your (and my) state and the church.

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard You've criticising the US for failing to seperate church and state... all I'm pointing out is that the UK (and the commonwealth) also fail spectacularly in that regard. Symbolic or no, the head of state is the head of state... officially the crown is in charge of both your (and my) state and the church.

I haven't criticised America for not being secular cos it clearly is secular!

But that doesn't mean they haven't elected a religious fundamenatlist to lead the country because they have!

And no, the Queen has no powers whatsoever and is purely symbolic, so there is no comparison to be made there...

lol @ the first three responses proving the original post's point. Why is it not ok to paint all Christians as one and the same, but it is ok to paint all Muslims as such? And why is it ok to immediately see nuance in the religiosity of an American president, but not in the religiosity of a foreign head of state?

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Originally posted by George Smiley Anyway, America has a religious fundamentalist as President - agree?

America, from the beginning, was built on religious fundamentalism - agree?

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r America, from the beginning, was built on religious fundamentalism - agree?

Strongly disagree. In fact some of the guiding forefathers went to great lengths to ensure religion was not part of our governmental infrastructure.

Not that I agree with everything George is saying, mind you, but I did want to address this minor point.

George Washington seemed to be very religious...

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George Washington Fairwell Speech parapgraph 27

27 Of all the dispositions and habits, which lead to political prosperity, Religion and Morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of Patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of Men and Citizens. The mere Politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connexions with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked, Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths, which are the instruments of investigation in Courts of Justice? And let us with caution indulge the supposition, that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect, that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.

28 It is substantially true, that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government. The rule, indeed, extends with more or less force to every species of free government. Who, that is a sincere friend to it, can look with indifference upon attempts to shake the foundation of the fabric ?

----------------------------------------------

Neocons, please read what our real mission in the world is supposed to be... as George Washington saw it...

Fairwell Address

"32 In the execution of such a plan, nothing is more essential, than that permanent, inveterate antipathies against particular Nations, and passionate attachments for others, should be excluded; and that, in place of them, just and amicable feelings towards all should be cultivated. The Nation, which indulges towards another an habitual hatred, or an habitual fondness, is in some degree a slave. It is a slave to its animosity or to its affection, either of which is sufficient to lead it astray from its duty and its interest.
Antipathy in one nation against another disposes each more readily to offer insult and injury, to lay hold of slight causes of umbrage, and to be haughty and intractable, when accidental or trifling occasions of dispute occur. Hence frequent collisions, obstinate, envenomed, and bloody contests. The Nation, prompted by ill-will and resentment, sometimes impels to war the Government, contrary to the best calculations of policy. The Government sometimes participates in the national propensity, and adopts through passion what reason would reject; at other times, it makes the animosity of the nation subservient to projects of hostility instigated by pride, ambition, and other sinister and pernicious motives. The peace often, sometimes perhaps the liberty, of Nations has been the victim."

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Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Strongly disagree. In fact some of the guiding forefathers went to great lengths to ensure religion was not part of our governmental infrastructure.

As true as that may be regarding the constitution, that still doesn't take away the fact many of them were.

Fundamental Christians to that extent George Smiley points out can be counted to be at a few dozen at best.
Moslim fundamentalists make up parge percentages of certain countries.

As has been rightfully pointed out, religious extremist in the US or Europe, regardless of faith, are prosecuted. The same is not true for many countries in the developing world.

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Originally posted by CHRles Fundamental Christians to that extent George Smiley points out can be counted to be at a few dozen at best. Moslim fundamentalists make up parge percentages of certain countries. As has been rightfully pointed out, religious extremist in the US or Europe, regardless of faith, are prosecuted. The same is not true for many countries in the developing world.

Fundamentalist Islam is a lot less popular than NewsCorp would have you believe. And where is it most popular? Particularly places like Saudi Arabia and Egypt, and notably not Iran, Syria, or Iraq.

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r America, from the beginning, was built on religious fundamentalism - agree?

I don't think the country was built on religious fundamentalism, but it was built by religious fundamentalists...

So, do you agree that a religious fundamentalist controls US policy?

And if you do agree, do you not think that bodes extremely badly for America and its citizens?

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