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-- FOX News Poll: Nearly 1 in 5 Democrats Say World Will Be Better Off if U.S. Loses War

FOX News Poll: Nearly 1 in 5 Democrats Say World Will Be Better Off if U.S. Loses War

NEW YORK � Nearly one out of every five Democrats thinks the world will be better off if America loses the war in Iraq, according to the FOX News Opinion Dynamics Poll released Thursday.

The percentage of Democrats (19 percent) who believe that is nearly four times the number of Republicans (5 percent) who gave the same answer. Seven percent of independents said the world would be better off if the U.S. lost the war.

Overall, 11 percent of Americans think the world would be "better off" if the U.S. lost the war, and 73 percent disagree.

Opinion Dynamics Corp. conducted the national telephone poll of 900 registered voters for FOX News from Sept. 25 to Sept. 26. The poll has a 3-point margin of error.

Praying for Peace

Large majorities of Americans say they have said a prayer for soldiers serving in Iraq and for the war to end, while just over half say they have prayed for President Bush.

Most people � 87 percent � say they have said a prayer for the troops, and another 77 percent have prayed for the war in Iraq to end. A much smaller 54 percent majority of Americans say they have prayed for the president.

Among groups, Democrats (80 percent) and Republicans (76 percent) are about equally likely to say they have prayed for the war to end, and women (80 percent) are only slightly more likely than men (73 percent) to have done so.

Republicans (74 percent) are twice as likely as Democrats (37 percent) to have included the president in their prayers, while just over half (52 percent) of independents have prayed for Bush.

Appealing to a higher authority on behalf of the president does not appear to be influenced by gender, as about as many men (51 percent) as women (56 percent) say they have prayed for Bush.

"It�s interesting to see the parallel between overall voter sentiment toward the president and the relatively reduced likelihood to pray for him," says Ernest Paicopolos, principal of Opinion Dynamics. "It�s also striking to see a more than 30-point gap between prayer for the troops and prayer for the commander-in-chief of those same troops."

In general, more Republicans (64 percent) than Democrats (53 percent) and independents (48 percent) say they pray every day. Southerners (66 percent) are 20 percentage points more likely than those living in the Northeast (46 percent) to pray daily.

Overall, a 56 percent majority of Americans says they pray every day, including 64 percent of women and 47 percent of men.

Another 17 percent say they pray several times a week and 7 percent several times a month. Few Americans � 7 percent � say they never pray.

RESULTS

The reason that any of them would say this is because they'd like to see us taught a lesson so that our hawkishness doesn't continue. Including the 5% of Republicans. You guys should kill those people for being traitors to your party.

Seriously, has any other country, especially amongst civilized ones, been at war as often in the past 150 years? Maybe they just want a break.

Hey wait, we can still "win"?

Re: FOX News Poll: Nearly 1 in 5 Democrats Say World Will Be Better Off if U.S. Loses

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Originally posted by LatinLover NEW YORK � Nearly one out of every five Democrats thinks the world will be better off if America loses the war in Iraq, according to the FOX News Opinion Dynamics Poll released Thursday. The percentage of Democrats (19 percent) who believe that is nearly four times the number of Republicans (5 percent) who gave the same answer. Seven percent of independents said the world would be better off if the U.S. lost the war. Overall, 11 percent of Americans think the world would be "better off" if the U.S. lost the war, and 73 percent disagree. Opinion Dynamics Corp. conducted the national telephone poll of 900 registered voters for FOX News from Sept. 25 to Sept. 26. The poll has a 3-point margin of error. Praying for Peace Large majorities of Americans say they have said a prayer for soldiers serving in Iraq and for the war to end, while just over half say they have prayed for President Bush. Most people � 87 percent � say they have said a prayer for the troops, and another 77 percent have prayed for the war in Iraq to end. A much smaller 54 percent majority of Americans say they have prayed for the president. Among groups, Democrats (80 percent) and Republicans (76 percent) are about equally likely to say they have prayed for the war to end, and women (80 percent) are only slightly more likely than men (73 percent) to have done so. Republicans (74 percent) are twice as likely as Democrats (37 percent) to have included the president in their prayers, while just over half (52 percent) of independents have prayed for Bush. Appealing to a higher authority on behalf of the president does not appear to be influenced by gender, as about as many men (51 percent) as women (56 percent) say they have prayed for Bush. "It�s interesting to see the parallel between overall voter sentiment toward the president and the relatively reduced likelihood to pray for him," says Ernest Paicopolos, principal of Opinion Dynamics. "It�s also striking to see a more than 30-point gap between prayer for the troops and prayer for the commander-in-chief of those same troops." In general, more Republicans (64 percent) than Democrats (53 percent) and independents (48 percent) say they pray every day. Southerners (66 percent) are 20 percentage points more likely than those living in the Northeast (46 percent) to pray daily. Overall, a 56 percent majority of Americans says they pray every day, including 64 percent of women and 47 percent of men. Another 17 percent say they pray several times a week and 7 percent several times a month. Few Americans � 7 percent � say they never pray. RESULTS

So? Want to go ahead and give an opinion on this? Or is this just for the sake of posting?

Re: Re: FOX News Poll: Nearly 1 in 5 Democrats Say World Will Be Better Off if U.S. L

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Originally posted by venomX So? Want to go ahead and give an opinion on this? Or is this just for the sake of posting?

+1...I think he is too busy and important to post his superior opinions...

Why lose if we can withdraw? That way we don't win OR lose... Like Vietnam...

Re: Re: Re: FOX News Poll: Nearly 1 in 5 Democrats Say World Will Be Better Off if U.

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Originally posted by Krypton +1...I think he is too busy and important to post his superior opinions... Why lose if we can withdraw? That way we don't win OR lose... Like Vietnam...

Who says that we are going to lose?
This is why I dont get, Krypton what is the main goal of the insurgency in Iraq?

Re: Re: Re: Re: FOX News Poll: Nearly 1 in 5 Democrats Say World Will Be Better Off i

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Originally posted by LatinLover Who says that we are going to lose? This is why I dont get, Krypton what is the main goal of the insurgency in Iraq?

Which part of the insurgency? They do not all have the same goals. Lumping them together is just a strategy to vilify all of the at the same time and make it easier to justify attacking them.

Re: Re: Re: Re: FOX News Poll: Nearly 1 in 5 Democrats Say World Will Be Better Off i

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Originally posted by LatinLover Who says that we are going to lose? This is why I dont get, Krypton what is the main goal of the insurgency in Iraq?

So is this about simply saving face? We must fight, or else risk looking like a dimwit? The insurgency in Iraq is like the War on Drugs, you are never going to end it with force. Especially FOREIGN FORCE!!

The goal of most of the insurgency is to end the occupation. But with the absence of law and order, people like Al-Qaida and criminals have been given a free reign to terrorize more than 1 million Iraqis to pack up and leave the country, a "brain drain" {{{CLICK}}} if you will. It is not the insurgency that is the cause of this. The cause of the insurgency is the occupation. End the occupation...

The best thing to do would be to change the target of the mission.

By establishing a goal that is close to complete or, even better, already complete then victory will be assured.

For example, if the target had been to have George Bush land on an aircraft carrier to be greated by an adoring crew, well, Mission Accomplished.

....

And what is this about praying for the war to end????

How many of these people have written letters to thier federal representatives?

And if 73% of people don't think the world would be better off if the US lost yet a majority of them are praying for an end to the war, they are clearly praying for a US victory.

In this case they could be more effective bringing about this end by enlisting, encouraging thier relatives to enlist, contributing free labour to the production of millitary supplies, or all kinds of other efforts that would aid the war effort (even consuming less would be a start, like driving less).

Praying seems like a way to pretend to do something.

Re: Re: Re: Re: FOX News Poll: Nearly 1 in 5 Democrats Say World Will Be Better Off if U.

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Originally posted by LatinLover This is why I dont get, Krypton what is the main goal of the insurgency in Iraq?

I think there are three goals that can be identified and applied to any group operating against the US occupation.

1. An end to the occupation. The people who hold this goal view the western efforts as a varriant of colonialisim or even of the crusades.

2. Gain power. The armed factions have been fighting to attempt to gain certain powers in the event of stability being established. There are people moving to secure the rights to the sale of oil, to the control of the government, and of the military / police force (should they ever emerge).

3. Fight the US. Some forces, notably Al-Q, are using Iraq as a battle ground in which to fight the US. Tactically the optimal resolution for this target is to make sure the US forces remain in the country while sustaining massive amounts of ingury, not death. And this needs to be carried out with minimal use of resources (both human and financial).

The reason this for this third goal is that it allows Al-Q and any associates they have to open other fronts while working to bankrupt the US. So long as they are able to keep maiming soilders they are able to slow the "pull out" factions in America (the populus reacts more strongly to deaths then inguries) while causing maximum financial penalties on the country. Amputees cost a country more money then dead in the long run. They are less productive, potentially not productive, yet continue to drain resources so long as they are alive.

I'm confused as to whether you are posting this sort of blatant propaganda to convince others of your point of view, or in order to solidify your own already solidified point of view against the potential for it be affected by outside influence?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: FOX News Poll: Nearly 1 in 5 Democrats Say World Will Be Better Off if U.

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Originally posted by atbell I think there are three goals that can be identified and applied to any group operating against the US occupation. 1. An end to the occupation. The people who hold this goal view the western efforts as a varriant of colonialisim or even of the crusades. 2. Gain power. The armed factions have been fighting to attempt to gain certain powers in the event of stability being established. There are people moving to secure the rights to the sale of oil, to the control of the government, and of the military / police force (should they ever emerge). 3. Fight the US. Some forces, notably Al-Q, are using Iraq as a battle ground in which to fight the US. Tactically the optimal resolution for this target is to make sure the US forces remain in the country while sustaining massive amounts of ingury, not death. And this needs to be carried out with minimal use of resources (both human and financial). The reason this for this third goal is that it allows Al-Q and any associates they have to open other fronts while working to bankrupt the US. So long as they are able to keep maiming soilders they are able to slow the "pull out" factions in America (the populus reacts more strongly to deaths then inguries) while causing maximum financial penalties on the country. Amputees cost a country more money then dead in the long run. They are less productive, potentially not productive, yet continue to drain resources so long as they are alive.

Wow, I don't know whether this is true or not, but it's really good thinking.

I'm glad you're not bin laden.

Re: Re: Re: Re: FOX News Poll: Nearly 1 in 5 Democrats Say World Will Be Better Off i

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Originally posted by LatinLover Who says that we are going to lose? This is why I dont get, Krypton what is the main goal of the insurgency in Iraq?

The only common goal of all of the insurgencies is to get us the fuck out and to get whichever political side said insurgent follows to get the most power.

In which case, I guess if we leave, the insurgents win, so we must stay until there are no insurgents, right? That does seem to be the logic that the Bushies are following these days. This would be easier if we didn't even bother with a puppet government and just conquered them, as that's the only way these 3 factions are getting along again.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: FOX News Poll: Nearly 1 in 5 Democrats Say World Will Be Better Off i

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Originally posted by Groundhog Boy In which case, I guess if we leave, the insurgents win, so we must stay until there are no insurgents, right? That does seem to be the logic that the Bushies are following these days.

Dude wake up can you see??If you leave Iraq now the insurgents will somehow follow you back to the U.S. and will take your freedom.

You guys all missed the punchline: it's a FoxNews poll.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: FOX News Poll: Nearly 1 in 5 Democrats Say World Will Be Better Off if U.

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Originally posted by DJ Shibby Wow, I don't know whether this is true or not, but it's really good thinking.

It's based on what a friend of mine told me about his military training. He pointed out that on a battle feild it's better to hit an enemy in the leg because it takes him out of the battle right away and 4-6 of his mates out soon after as they carry him back.

Instead of starting a new thread, I thought I would just tack this on here.

quote:

Report says war on terror is fueling al Qaeda By Kate Kelland 2 hours, 52 minutes ago Six years after the September 11 attacks in the United States, the "war on terror" is failing and instead fueling an increase in support for extremist Islamist movements, a British think-tank said on Monday. A report by the Oxford Research Group (ORG) said a "fundamental re-think is required" if the global terrorist network is to be rendered ineffective. "If the al Qaeda movement is to be countered, then the roots of its support must be understood and systematically undercut," said Paul Rogers, the report's author and professor of global peace studies at Bradford University in northern England. "Combined with conventional policing and security measures, al Qaeda can be contained and minimized but this will require a change in policy at every level." He described the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq as a "disastrous mistake" which had helped establish a "most valued jihadist combat training zone" for al Qaeda supporters. The report -- Alternatives to the War on Terror -- recommended the immediate withdrawal of all foreign troops from Iraq coupled with intensive diplomatic engagement in the region, including with Iran and Syria. In Afghanistan, Rogers also called for an immediate scaling down of military activities, an injection of more civil aid and negotiations with militia groups aimed at bringing them into the political process. If such measures were adopted it would still take "at least 10 years to make up for the mistakes made since 9/11." "Failure to make the necessary changes could result in the war on terror lasting decades," the report added. Rogers also warned of a drift toward conflict with Iran. "Going to war with Iran," he said, "will make matters far worse, playing directly into the hands of extreme elements and adding greatly to the violence across the region. Whatever the problems with Iran, war should be avoided at all costs."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071008..._afghanistan_dc

I'm wondering if this was more an administrative coincidence than an executive decision.
Either way, hopefully gets it resolved quickly.

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