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futurism: passed?

This was a thread inspired by an article posted here by paulandrews. I started to write a reply but then decided to turn it into a new topic because it got lengthy and I thought it might make a better discussion topic than deadmau5 or track of the year. So...


(PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING ARTICLE FIRST)

Here's the article that he posted:

quote:

Originally posted by paulandrews http://www.de-bug.de/texte/5129.html

I think what the article doesn't acknowledge is there is a whole group of people coming of age, including myself, who missed out on the "futurist era" of electronic dance music, and has a genuine interest or romantic attitude towards it. For instance, I bought both of the Cybotron re-release records after I heard francois K play the original for the first time this summer.

the major problem with electronic music, which the article begins to touch on, is that the technology isn't really opening any doors for musical experimentation and production. The technology these days is all about performance, spectacle, video, superlatives, etc. In terms of creating music, there's not a whole lot out there that's much different. Now the other problem here is that our computers have become so easy to control that we can craft whatever we want and have it come out the way we expect. All efforts are focused on the sound of sound rather than the production of sound, and I am guilty of this myself with making music.

There are still things out there such as Max MSP and pure data which allow you to push the limits of sound production, and there are some artists experimenting with these things. Carsten Nicolai is a good example, a german sound and light sculptor who I actually saw at a lecture last night. (http://www.carstennicolai.de/) (http://noton.raster-noton.de/)

You have a whole generation of people who admire the past for its futurist sensibility and few outlets for real current futurist experiments. There is a tangible sense that everything has already been done, and that brings a sense of camp and kitsch to things like glitch, minimal, rock/dance hybrids, etc

Add to that the "blog house" culture that the article alludes to, the mass journalism and global consciousness of dance music, the global reach of record labels, charts, livesets, beatport, etc - this has led to the scene becoming ever more self-referential and journalistic. Even DJ sets such as my own I feel are too journalistic rather than productive. If you don't get what I mean by that exactly, basically there is a difference between making something about something and just making something.

So...

I am wondering what the article wonders - is futurism a thing of the past (passed), how long will it take for people to break out of the self referential, nostalgic, conservative loop and create something new.

Do we not want to make new things because the old paradigm is still working for us? Still making us happy? People are still finding dance music anew even though many of us realize it is old... And for those who have been in it long enough to be nostalgic, are they living in the past?

I started a topic a while ago called 'music is obsolete' that sort of was about my concern for the lack of substantive innovation in music in our contemporary global society. If the cutting edge has always been about succombing to technology, subverting technology, or creation through error, or the freak results of new systems, what is today's cutting edge?


PS: If the words are too big for you, don't even bother posting. I don't need that shit again

lol I remember when Adam got bashed for using big words....LAWLZ! Well, I have to go to school I'll read it when I'm back.

quote:

lol I remember when Adam got bashed for using big words....LAWLZ! Well, I have to go to school I'll read it when I'm back.

dual meaning here?

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec dual meaning here?

wait....wh...what?

quote:

Originally posted by wotyzoid wait....wh...what?

Exactly.

wotyzoid really is priceless

Yes, it's a thing of the past now.

quote:

but an ongoing consolidation of tastes has shifted the emphasis from local scenes to a global marketplace

This is part of it.

But I think the futurism that was an inspiration for early electronic music could last only as long as people still had some level of discomfort and unfamiliarity with computer technology. After everybody got p2p, iPods, after everybody and his dog bought turntables and tried his hand at DJing, after everybody downloaded cracked production software and tried his hand at production, that discomfort was gone. Nobody in the richer countries thinks of computers as alien, arcane, or disquieting anymore, and the newer, easier interfaces have even made regular use of computers much less foreboding when before it was the domain of weirdos, obsessed hobbyists, and nerds. If you live in a world where most people have little discomfort with computers or software, where half the population walks around each day with what is essentially a tiny computer filled with gigabytes of music in their hand, good luck making a super-technological future seem either romantic or frightening.

And I think the way that the death of electronic music's futurism parallels the growth of the PC industry and the consumer-friendly interfaces for Internet use bears this out.

Now people look at a highly technological, computerized future and say either, "Bring it on" or "Who cares? It's already here."

Another thing is just that genres of music have (I think) become somewhat less attached to extra-musical "lifestyles" and "attitudes" than they used to be.

Thanks for posting this article, this is something that I find interesting and I am hoping we can get some nice discussion on it.

There are surely gonna be new elements in dance music, as more and more ethnically disparate, underground scenes pop up (Rio Funk and Kwaito) that more recognized producers will lap up and be influenced by.

I think the biggest worry, that the article alludes to, is seeing whole scenes and genres just drop off the face of the earth (progressive breaks, UK garage, electroclash, etc), before the genres have a chance to stabilize or expand outwards. Nowadays, I think every genre seems overly influenced by electro and minimal, this is creeping into every single genre creating some sort of homogenous sound.

Another thing that the article forgets to mention, really (aside from a pointless slag at Tiesto) is the continuing popularity of trance, which, to my knowledge, still holds a fair bit of popularity in more mainstream dance music circles.

It's kind of funny that I am 1 of only 291 people in the US who bought the Burial album, though!

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Yes, it's a thing of the past now. This is part of it. But I think the futurism that was an inspiration for early electronic music could last only as long as people still had some level of discomfort and unfamiliarity with computer technology. After everybody got p2p, iPods, after everybody and his dog bought turntables and tried his hand at DJing, after everybody downloaded cracked production software and tried his hand at production, that discomfort was gone. Nobody in the richer countries thinks of computers as alien, arcane, or disquieting anymore, and the newer, easier interfaces have even made regular use of computers much less foreboding when before it was the domain of weirdos, obsessed hobbyists, and nerds. If you live in a world where most people have little discomfort with computers or software, where half the population walks around each day with what is essentially a tiny computer filled with gigabytes of music in their hand, good luck making a super-technological future seem either romantic or frightening. And I think the way that the death of electronic music's futurism parallels the growth of the PC industry and the consumer-friendly interfaces for Internet use bears this out. Now people look at a highly technological, computerized future and say either, "Bring it on" or "Who cares? It's already here."

That might be true. Technology used to be this mysterious, romantic, magical thing, and now it's become so incorporated into our lives that we take it for granted. Earlier EDM captured this feeling especially well. It was an optimistic and uplifting view of our future, and now we're here and no one is impressed anymore.

I especially like his take on the demise of the subgenre:

quote:

When was the last time you heard anyone seriously dispute the differences between "microhouse," minimal techno, and minimal? The terms that do arise � like "fidget house," to describe the kinetic style of London producers like Switch � by and large fail to stick. And as techno and house continue to blur, it seems that fewer and fewer people are interested in differentiating even between those two major pillars of electronic music. Today, subgenres are more likely to be objects of identification, more lifestyle brands than true subcultures. Whatever we're to call the movement encompassing Ed Banger, Kitsun�, and rock remixes, it seems less a subgenre than a promiscuous, post-genre approach.

This is more than idle observation; I think the convergence of subgenres, and the end of defined stylistic territory, is more telling than anything. The past ten years of dance music were practically defined by the incessant splintering of new variants, each claiming their own camp. One of the big surprises (to me) in the past three years has been the mass die-off of niche genres, and the tearing down of walls between, well, almost everything. As someone who grew up with dance music over the past ten years, I guess I assumed that it would continue as an ever-radiating zoo. This consolidation of dance genres isn't going to be reversed anytime soon, I suspect.

Regarding futurism, I think it's evident from the sounds today that old hands have been trying to bring it back. I agree with the author that it probably won't happen in the cultural context; futurism isn't edgy anymore. The cyber-impulse now evokes bad memories of dressed-up 90s cyberpunk, not the robot aesthetic of the 80s. Perhaps futurism will come back in some radically different incarnation, but not in the original techno mold.

Centerpointe upgraded their Holosync meditation cds a little while back and they made some of the background sounds appear to be in 3D. It's hard to imagine that you can get a 3d sound from two stereo speakers, but the cassette tape demo was amazing. Planes flying above and a bee buzzing around your head sounded very real.

The technology is called "Virtual Audio 3D."

Also here is a thing that is important. The more technology progresses, the less it will rely on humanity, and so you can imagine music created and deejayed without people. And it also makes sense from a market standpoint. But the problem is the ritual of a party, the ritual of dancing, is something innately human, and so at a point I feel like technology will take us as far as we are willing to go.

Unless becoming less human and more machine is something fashionable in the future?

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec Also here is a thing that is important. The more technology progresses, the less it will rely on humanity, and so you can imagine music created and deejayed without people. And it also makes sense from a market standpoint. But the problem is the ritual of a party, the ritual of dancing, is something innately human, and so at a point I feel like technology will take us as far as we are willing to go. Unless becoming less human and more machine is something fashionable in the future?

I'm sorry to answer your question with another question but.. Does becoming 'more machine' imply that we become less human? After all isn't the machine a product of human thinking, and therefore an extension of our humanity?

In relation to your first point; Music that relies less on human intervention would be a contradictory concept. The machines are autonomous, but they're still a tool created by humans. Maybe a better way to describe it would be "music that is created by indirect human intervention"?

Yes, technically you're right, but I think you got what I meant when you said that about it being "indirect".

I am talking more about a tangible sense of human interaction, like if you can see a DJ smiling at you, or you know the producer personally, etc.

quote:

Does becoming 'more machine' imply that we become less human? After all isn't the machine a product of human thinking, and therefore an extension of our humanity?

Yeah that's a good point, and one reason while I added that caveat about being "fashionable", because people in the future might also believe this point you make and then embrace more machines in their lives and bodies.

Of course everything we do is human, even if indirect, so maybe this is the illusory "barrier" that prevents us from continuing to embrace technology - we're afraid to cross the historical (but theoretically nonexistent) barrier between man and machine

You and I are among the first generations to really grow up with technology being an important and essential part of our lives, so it's often easy to forget how recent this is on a societal scale. It's been mentioned in a few posts above how technology has become a more casual thing, so if the trend continues, then I could definately see our culture adopting that mindset.

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec But the problem is the ritual of a party, the ritual of dancing, is something innately human, and so at a point I feel like technology will take us as far as we are willing to go.

I think this would bring some good things too. Sure, the human element would be gone and it seems like a logical following when we've already separated music and it's physical data medium. But I can see the party deejayed by a machine as some kind of returning to the roots. There would be no fixation on the dj, the cult of a man (woman) standing on a pedestal would exist no more and people could return back to the good old rave mode where the music coming out of speakers was the only thing that mattered.

Of course it probably won't be that ideal but there is hope.

quote:

Originally posted by paulandrews There would be no fixation on the dj, the cult of a man (woman) standing on a pedestal would exist no more and people could return back to the good old rave mode where the music coming out of speakers was the only thing that mattered.

"Hey man, are you going to see NRZ-T60023 this Saturday?!"

"Hell yeah! NRZ-T60023 plays all the hot ch00nz!!!"

[At the event, NRZ-T60023, with smooth mechanical movements, does the Jesus pose and flashes a robotic smile at all the humans, who raise their arms and sway during the extended supersaw breakdown.]

that's so depressing lol

but you're completely right


plus his arms could extend during the jesus pose and light on fire

Oh the possibilities!

Yeah.

Re: futurism: passed?

Awe-fucking-some article, so interesting. I loved this part:

"And as techno and house continue to blur, it seems that fewer and fewer people are interested in differentiating even between those two major pillars of electronic music."

And that is soooo true people are more worried about what is minimal and what is tech-house than simply relying on edm subgenres as house and techno.

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec Do we not want to make new things because the old paradigm is still working for us? Still making us happy? People are still finding dance music anew even though many of us realize it is old... And for those who have been in it long enough to be nostalgic, are they living in the past? I started a topic a while ago called 'music is obsolete' that sort of was about my concern for the lack of substantive innovation in music in our contemporary global society. If the cutting edge has always been about succombing to technology, subverting technology, or creation through error, or the freak results of new systems, what is today's cutting edge?

Great reply to the article as well. I haven't been listening to EDM all that long to even give a worthy comment but I think that current EDM still makes a lot of people happy, at least that's how I feel about it. And people that are usually sick of EDM just go on to other things and refuse to do anything about it. So unless somebody does something about it it will just consist of the people who are happy with it. EDM does sound really recycled at this day in age but then again it depends what you are into. I'm sure if you are looking for something innovative and look into IDM and Experimental you'll be satisfied for at least a short while..

teh Phuture!1

quote:

Originally posted by rawbound teh Phuture!1

BRILLIANT, how is this not all over the news??

Re: futurism: passed?

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec Do we not want to make new things because the old paradigm is still working for us? Still making us happy? People are still finding dance music anew even though many of us realize it is old... And for those who have been in it long enough to be nostalgic, are they living in the past?

i don't think music should be forced to sit on a timescale.

there seems to be massive overbearing pressure from the electronic music 'elite' for everything electronic to sound groundbreakingly different and well.. new (this doesn't necessarily mean futuristic, if say, it involves taking retro influences & twisting them into an updated sound), when really most people (i would think) just want something that pleases their ears, regardless of how new or old the sound is.

i think that because dance music goes through different trends every few years, it gives the illusion of an overall evolution. when really these trends largely consist of: a) a core group of fickle enthusiasts who wildly support these trends for being avant garde or whathaveyou... and b) a different wave of new clubbers/edm listeners each time, whom during their honeymoon phases will follow the leads of said enthusiasts. so when certain popular artists decide to push boundaries & make new subgenres popular, i don't see it as pushing evolution within dance music; i just see it as one sound being bigger than it was before.

i think that if history starts repeating itself & old sounds become popular again, then it will tear down the notion that good music needs to evolve along a linear timescale, and maybe things will sound less restricted. i'd love to hear more instances of new sounds mixed with old sounds, or new sounds that sound like old sounds. basically anything that would lead towards tearing down the ideation of having a '2007 sound' or a '2008 sound' that periodically updates itself whilst leaving the old styles behind...

too bad this probably won't ever happen on a large scale, since the majority of top DJs seem to root themselves into one particular style at a time before wearing it out & moving on, which ends up influencing alot of followers too (as mentioned two paragraphs above)

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