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Music Programming

Does anyone know of a good forum about music programming. I guess I'd be looking for information on programming VSTs, but I'd be interested in the wider range of options such as creating VST's in DirectX format and I'd also be interested in creating midi sequencers, working with DSP's etc....I would even like to get an idea of what languages I would have to learn to program something like Cubase or ProTools or Ableton etc...not that I plan to tackle such a feat, but I want to be more familiar with my surroundings.

Any help in this area would be great because I'm finding it a bit challenging to find a good forum that covers these kinds of things....perhaps I need to buy a book on Max/MSP? ...but if money were no object, is Max/MSP the best program out there for this sort of thing?

Thanks!

Re: Music Programming

quote:

Originally posted by Kosmos & Skky ...is Max/MSP the best program out there for this sort of thing?

Hardly. You need to know C++ and assembly to make the more advanced stuff.
If you just want to make VST synths and effects I recommend Synthmaker. It's very easy to use and you can even use assembly code in it.

Thanks for the reply!

Are you saying that you need to use C++ and assembly to make the more advanced stuff in Max/MSP?

I do plan on eventually creating some programs that for both mac and pc and I want them to be very stable. And I was sort of hoping to create an environment to work across platforms like Ableton, Cubase, Pro Tools, etc...

So I'm planning on diving pretty deep to make a work environment that's very useful to my own work flow and eventually to others. So given that...would you still recommend SynthMaker? I'm assuming it would not give me that sort of flexibility?

Thanks!

quote:

Originally posted by Kosmos & Skky I do plan on eventually creating some programs that for both mac and pc and I want them to be very stable. And I was sort of hoping to create an environment to work across platforms like Ableton, Cubase, Pro Tools, etc...

no one understands what you're trying to do, because you don't even understand what you're trying to do.

are you trying to program a sequencer or what?

ahh well sorry for the confusion...

I'm trying to create a virtual studio that would enable one person to network with another online...so it would have to have an arrangement view and I was thinking it could have limited midi and audio processing functions.

In order for it to be semi useful I want to be able to integrate the program across platforms like Cubase, ProTools, Logic, Ableton etc...

I also want to be be able to integrate VST's within the virtual studio although the Virtual studio will be able to function as a VST as well.

It won't be a program for mastering or anything, just composing and arranging. Not only will you be able to network, but also work on the fly.

I know this will be costly in terms of time and what I ultimately hope to accomplish.

Right now, my main concern is what languages or programs would provide me with the best approach to create such a program.

I intend to develop the program for both mac and pc's

Hope this clears my question up

Please let me know if you need any additional information

Thanks

Do you even know anything about programming?

No offence, but this sounds like a stupid pipe dream. The idea is good and everything, but you clearly lack the technical knowledge to do write such a program in any less than ~3 years. To be honest, I don't think you would ever even finish it. Programming in C/C++ is not like Max/MSP; you don't connect things together with pretend wires, you write thousands of lines of algorithmic code. If you want it to be platform independant, then you have to worry about the different libraries on different OSs.

Now, if you want to work online with someone, there are options which already exist. You can use NINJAM to collaborate online. Alternatively, you could use a form of VNC. I'm not aware of any VNC programs that allow audio, but I'm sure they exist.

Alright well then let me be a little bit more straight forward...

I have an idea and I have investors....and so I have the time for three years...but I don't expect to take three years and I don't expect to do this all on my own

What I don't have time for is people telling me I can't do something...that wastes my time...although I appreciate you taking your time to tell me this

I've already brought two people onto my team that were helpful to me...that's why I'm trying to figure this out via websites like this...I like to work with people that give back and help each other out...and that's the kind of team I'm going to need to work with

I could hire as many experts as I want...but I plan to keep the group smaller with more defined roles

I may not yet know the proper programming languages...but I know how to manage...and eventually I will learn the programming languages because I don't do anything without getting my hands dirty...and I won't listen to anyone unless I double check what they tell me

I'm open to integrating a select amount of programs...if you think there's a program that will be useful to this idea or even if you've developed one...I may be willing to integrate it into my software...at your benefit

If you think this sounds a bit pie in the sky...all the more reason to help my poor sad soul...but otherwise there are opportunities here for experienced and hard working individuals who can work within a team and without letting their ego get the best of them

-Cheers

Like he said. To accomplish your goal you need to use efficient programming languages like C/C++ and probably some assembly coding. Those aren't programs they are programming languages. You should really look up the basics of software development before you proceed.

I say play the lottery, then when you win pay some company to build it for you

quote:

Originally posted by Kosmos & Skky What I don't have time for is people telling me I can't do something...

You CAN'T do it, that's why you're paying people to do it for you... lol.

My response was to a clueless newb who came on a forum with a pipe dream. You didn't give me enough information to reply in any other manner.

Now back on topic... It is a good idea and will be a good contribution to the scene if you can pull it off. However, it will take you at least 12 months just to learn how to program well, so you'll need to hire people to do 90% of the work if you want to have a stable release within 24 months.

You also have to understand that alot (most?) people just can't be good programmers. You need extremely good problem solving skills. For audio stuff in particular, you will also need very good math skill, as the algorithms are very complex. A smart businessman wouldn't take the risk of depending on skills he doesn't have.

You also need to consider the business side of it... Think about how small the audio community is, then think about how many of those people would be interested in collaborating online. You will have an extremely small market segment and will have to charge outrageous prices to recover your costs. Will people pay? There is a good chance you will lay out a significant ammount of money on this, the market probably won't be there, someone will come in and capitalise off your R&D and undercut your price. You'll probably be blown out of the market you initiated. Patents are useless, so you need to secure your first mover advantage, but history would suggest this is destined for failure.

A VNC style collaboration tool would be the ideal way, because then the application is not dependant on any particular host programs. The only downside is this will use a shitload of bandwidth. You would probably need 1mbit+ internet to get bareable performance. However, VNC would obviously give full access to all the software on the host computer. Look into it.

I have to be honest with you, the odds are really against you. Everything you have said so far is based on completely uneducated assumptions.
Good luck with it though, I think it it would be a great tool.

okay now we're sooooort of getting somewhere

I realize that C++ is a programming language...in fact I've used C++...just not with music...yet...

what I mean by integrating programs is that sometimes you may want to integrate a program that you would like to use with your program...e.g. if anyone here has ever used Mix Meister...you may notice the stripped down version of Izotope Ozone that's available....hence they probably had a contract with them so that they could bundle the software and create a more useful packaged program

you seem to take me as a moron...I'm really trying to be friendly here...perhaps I will have more success doing what I was doing...seeking programmers out individually rather than trying to get them to find me...but I'll give this one last shot

I'm interested in the languages that I'm going to have to use so that every time my project comes to a standstill I have something to keep me busy that will actually give me a chance to improve myself and expand my knowledge of the subject (but yeah that must be a moronic idea ehh?)

If there are certain programs that would give me an advantage in getting to my desired result...great then! I'd like to hear about it! Otherwise I'd be interested in the programming languages that offer the most opportunities, flexibility and stability to achieve the end result.

Some of this project is programming for hire, some of it is partially my own ideas. I was intelligent enough to offer novel ideas and that's the reason I'm in charge of this project. After I propose the project plan, then my resources are almost unlimited to reasonably do what I need to do.

so yeah...I'm gonna give this one last shot

Would anyone be so kind as to offer some helpful advice?

echosystm - I appreciate your concern but I majored in biochemistry and math. I know I can't do it all by myself and so I intend to hire other people. But as I said in my most recent email, I have to come up with a scope of work and to do that I have to get an idea of how I'm going to do it...not to actually do it.

Lets just assume money is no object (although I am working with businessmen so obviously I have to be reasonable) and lets just assume I won't have a problem selling the product...lets just assume I'm creating this program for some of the most well known producers in the world and I just happen to have a friend that trusts me enough to put me in charge of this project - so lets just assume that these well-known producers are going to help me advertise the product and I really don't have to worry about that part...at all


Then what would you say?

P.S. the program includes some very novel ideas about overcoming bandwidth issues...in fact it's designed to be used in a wireless environment...

There are many more ideas that I simply can't talk about yet that add to the value and usefulness of the product and it will ultimately capture a much larger market than you may think. There's no futility here.

quote:

Originally posted by Kosmos & Skky I'd be interested in the programming languages that offer the most opportunities, flexibility and stability to achieve the end result.

C++ is, more or less, your only real option.

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