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religion is so great, doo-dah doo-dah

quote:

A Turkish prosecutor has launched a probe into whether a book by best-selling atheist writer Richard Dawkins is an attack on religious values -- a move that could lead to the prosecution of the book's Turkish publisher. "The God Delusion" has sold some 6,000 copies in Turkey. Publisher Erol Karaaslan said he would be questioned by an Istanbul prosecutor on Wednesday as part of the official investigation into Dawkins' book, "The God Delusion." Karaaslan could face trial and up to one year in prison if the prosecutor concludes that the book "incites religious hatred" and insults religious values, Milliyet newspaper reported. Karaaslan is both the publisher and translator of the book. The investigation of the British scientist's book comes at a time when Turkey has been criticized for targeting writers and intellectuals for expressing opinions. The European Union, which Turkey hopes to join, is pressing Ankara to change laws that curb free expression, calling them inconsistent with the bloc's free speech standards. Turkey said this month it would soften a much-criticized law that makes denigrating Turkish identity, or insulting the country's institutions, a crime. The Nobel Prize-winning author Orhan Pamuk was among the highest profile Turks snared by the law, when he commented on the mass killings of Armenians by Turks in the early 20th century. Historians estimate up to 1.5 million Armenians were killed by Ottoman Turks around the time of World War I, an event widely viewed by genocide scholars as the first genocide of the 20th century. Turkey, however, denies the deaths constituted genocide, saying that the toll has been inflated and that those killed were victims of civil war and unrest. A probe was launched into "The God Delusion" after one reader complained that passages in the book were an assault on "sacred values," Karaaslan said. No one was available for comment at the prosecutor's office. The book has sold about 6,000 copies in Turkey since it was published by Karaaslan's Kuzey publishing house in June.

for anyone wondering, THIS is why atheists like myself might sound just as zealot-like as the actual zealots. how this stuff doesn't make everybody's blood boil is beyond me

shut up, jihad joe.

Fair enough, but Dawkins is still a twat

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Originally posted by RJT Dawkins is still a twat

I think that's what he's saying?

such a very smart twat though.

I'm almost finished this book and, while a cool read and nicely eye opening to a few things, is quite hypocritical on one point.

He has a go at the religions for pushing their version of religion on the masses, in it's various forms.

However, to me, the book read as him doing the exact same thing for atheism. I know he used science, logic, etc (the foundations of atheism, so no surprise there) but that means he is just pushing the values of atheism just like the Vatican push the values of Christianity.

That said, it's an awesome read and should be read by everyone, along with his numerous articles, journals etc. He's a very cluey guy and writes well.

Oh and the Turkey this is crapola, but what do you expect from a country as religious as that? Like trying to sell "LOL ISLAM" in Iraq.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN such a very smart twat though.

About some things, others, not so much.

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Originally posted by Teh Jim I'm almost finished this book and, while a cool read and nicely eye opening to a few things, is quite hypocritical on one point. He has a go at the religions for pushing their version of religion on the masses, in it's various forms. However, to me, the book read as him doing the exact same thing for atheism. I know he used science, logic, etc (the foundations of atheism, so no surprise there) but that means he is just pushing the values of atheism just like the Vatican push the values of Christianity. That said, it's an awesome read and should be read by everyone, along with his numerous articles, journals etc. He's a very cluey guy and writes well.

he doesn't push "values" at all. he pushes science. what he does is illustrate the evils that religion causes in the world. how can it be the same thing when atheism doesn't cause similar evils?

atheism has no values. it is purely a response to (and abscence of) religion. they are not "different sides of the same coin" by any stretch of the imagination. you cant push a value that isn't there. there are no 10 commandments of atheism that he is trying to get everyone to adhere to.

apples and oranges.

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Originally posted by RJT Fair enough, but Dawkins is still a twat

how so?

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Originally posted by Az how so?

i beg of you: DO NOT PROD HIM.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN he doesn't push "values" at all. he pushes science. what he does is illustrate the evils that religion causes in the world. how can it be the same thing when atheism doesn't cause similar evils? atheism has no values. it is purely a response to (and abscence of) religion. they are not "different sides of the same coin" by any stretch of the imagination. you cant push a value that isn't there. there are no 10 commandments of atheism that he is trying to get everyone to adhere to. apples and oranges.

He is a fundamentalist scientist, he is NO different than those religious wackos out there, just with science. He ONLY sees science, extreme objectivity (and is it objective at all?) and from I see..ignores anything relating to subjective experience.

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Originally posted by Spirit5 He is a fundamentalist scientist, he is NO different than those religious wackos out there, just with science. He ONLY sees science, extreme objectivity (and is it objective at all?) and from I see..ignores anything relating to subjective experience.

you people clearly dont understand the difference between religious wackos and atheists. im not going to bother with you peasants

i hope you all go to hell.

this book is much better than dawkins'

hitchens doesn't like dawkins either

Re: religion is so great, doo-dah doo-dah

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN atheists like myself

ahhh...so you ARE an atheist. KNEW IT!

Re: Re: religion is so great, doo-dah doo-dah

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Originally posted by fayraree ahhh...so you ARE an atheist. KNEW IT!

shhh, i try to keep that part of myself well-hidden

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Originally posted by Spirit5 He is a fundamentalist scientist, he is NO different than those religious wackos out there, just with science. He ONLY sees science, extreme objectivity (and is it objective at all?) and from I see..ignores anything relating to subjective experience.

The term subjectivity is a human construct. It stems from the fact that we perceive each human to have their own consciousness. Weak people use the word to rationalize their inability to explain their thoughts. As if it's somehow exempt from criticism. Well guess what, bullshit isn't tolerated in the lab, and it shouldn't be tolerated anywhere else.

Now if you'd actually like to argue the merits of organized religion, go ahead. Just about everything you could think of can be shot down using rational thinking though. These schmucks who expect to be treated as intelligent beings can't even explain why they need religion so much. It's convoluted, it's based in fear and weakness, and it brings out the worst in people.

So anyone who's up for it: if religion has been beneficial to society (because I assume that's what everybody wants. if not, that's a different argument), point out how.

I don't mind athesists and I don't mind religious people. What I do mind is people that have this ridiculous hobby of trying to disprove other people's beliefs. I know athesists that only read anti-God books, believe they are intelligent for doing so, and go out of their way to attack and harass believers. I also know believers that go out of their way to attack and harass people without mercy. These people just need to chill and find some relaxing hobby.

well if you any desire to see the end of war, racism, violence and ignorance on this planet, you have a very compelling reason to see the end of religion. that is the point of "atheist books"...

i know someone will say it and i'll just tell you now i don't really give a shit what jesus means to you and how you handle it, i'm talking about what religion does to groups of people... and that is to divide them and make them dumber.

I like what Freud had to say about the crowd who uses "it's all subjective anyway" and "you can't be absolutely sure there's not a God" to "justify" their belief in gobbledygook:

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'If even the crabbed sceptics admit that the statements of religion cannot be confuted by reason, why should not I believe in them, since they have so much on their side -- tradition, the concurrence of mankind, and all the consolation they yield?' Yes, why not? Just as no one can be forced into belief, so no one can be forced into unbelief. But do not deceive yourself into thinking that with such arguments you are following the path of correct reasoning. If ever there was a case of facile argument, this is one. Ignorance is ignorance; no right to believe anything is derived from it.

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Originally posted by R!CH well if you any desire to see the end of war, racism, violence and ignorance on this planet, you have a very compelling reason to see the end of religion. that is the point of "atheist books"... i know someone will say it and i'll just tell you now i don't really give a shit what jesus means to you and how you handle it, i'm talking about what religion does to groups of people... and that is to divide them and make them dumber.

Are you being serious? I can't tell when people are sarcastic or not over the net. If you are being serious open your eyes and stop believing everything that is fed to you. Those things aren't caused by religion they are caused by humanity. Humans aren't perfect and never will be. Those things will not disappear if religion disappears. The worst monstrosities ever committed in our history were committed by atheists but believers have their share as well.

All I was saying with my comment above was that people need to relax. It boggles my mind that people take this stuff to such an extreme(either side) that it becomes a hobby for them to start arguments with people over the net. I'm hoping that this is just a periodic trend on the internet and it will pass once the situation in the Middle East quiets down but unfortunately for some it is their lives.

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Originally posted by weymouth The worst monstrosities ever committed in our history were committed by atheists.

yeah, like jihads and locking up galileo for saying the earth is not the center of the universe... fuck those athiest bastards.

lol...

i'm sorry man, religion is a cess pool of stupidity, ignorance and bullshit. if people didn't rebel against religion, we would still be thinking the earth is flat.

ps. hitler was neither athiest nor christian. don't go there.

quote:

Originally posted by weymouth Those things aren't caused by religion they are caused by humanity. Humans aren't perfect and never will be. Those things will not disappear if religion disappears.

so why should we accept one (and its a fucking big one, the biggest of all time infact) extra source of division between peoples?

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN so why should we accept one (and its a fucking big one, the biggest of all time infact) extra source of division between peoples?

religion is a bigger divider than race?

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