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Physics and immortality

Would physical immortality require infinite energy?

It seems that it would if the following two assumptions are true:

1. Life requires useful energy (i.e. thermodynamic free energy).

2. The universe has an irreversible tendency toward thermodynamic equilibrium (i.e. the total amount of useful energy inevitably declines over time).

So unless the energy of the universe is infinite (never reaching total thermodynamic equilibrium), life will inevitably die out due to lack of useful energy.

you need to explain consciousness in physical terms and connect it to the physical forces before you can answer questions about immortality.

No matter how much technology increases, humanity WILL die one day. You can't reverse entropy

http://www.multivax.com/last_question.html Awesome short-story.

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Originally posted by Omega_M you need to explain consciousness in physical terms and connect it to the physical forces before you can answer questions about immortality.

Can't there be some sort of unconscious life? That would make consciousness irrelevant

Not nearly high enough to be joining this thread yet.

The question itself though, is unanswerable due to our lack of knowledge regarding the boundaries of the universe.

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Originally posted by Omega_M you need to explain consciousness in physical terms and connect it to the physical forces before you can answer questions about immortality.

I don't think so. The assumptions I listed seem to apply to anything with a body.

But maybe you want to say that consciousness can exist without any physical substrate whatsoever. My reply would be: evidence?

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles I don't think so. The assumptions I listed seem to apply to anything with a body. Maybe you want to say that consciousness can exist without any physical substrate whatsoever. My reply would be: evidence?

I thought the original question was about physical immortality and not consciencious (spiritual?) immortality. Consciousness without any physical existance (organic or mechanical) is really bordering more on religious debate, no?

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Originally posted by Gen3r4l1ty I thought the original question was about physical immortality and not consciencious (spiritual?) immortality.

It is, and I would like the thread to focus mostly on that.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles I don't think so. The assumptions I listed seem to apply to anything with a body. But maybe you want to say that consciousness can exist without any physical substrate whatsoever. My reply would be: evidence?

asking for evidence in a thread like this is..... well, useless.

But, MrJive, if you grant the existence of a subtantial dualism (matter and spirit), what keeps spiritual substance from following different rules? Newtonian physics needn't apply in this case.

Edit: Hey, why isn't Arthur wearing a santa hat? He's cranky, but it's still Christmas

can energy be destroyed?

UNNNNLIIMITTEDD POOOWWWEEEEEERRRRRR!!!!

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Originally posted by Lira But, MrJive, if you grant the existence of a subtantial dualism (matter and spirit), what keeps spiritual substance from following different rules? Newtonian physics needn't apply in this case.

Nothing, of course.

Good luck defining the term "spirit" meaningfully (i.e. not purely in terms of what properties it doesn't have -- "no spatial location, not quantifiable, not destructible, etc." is the usual litany).

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Edit: Hey, why isn't Arthur wearing a santa hat? He's cranky, but it's still Christmas

Because nobody has made him one.

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Originally posted by eRRaTiK can energy be destroyed?

Nope.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Because nobody has made him one.

I'm going to uni and I'm going to make him one when I come back

Is it possible our assumptions of the universe are wrong?

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Originally posted by eROs.au http://www.multivax.com/last_question.html Awesome short-story.

That was cool.

I've thought of something like that scenario before. Supposedly when things cool to near absolute zero, quantum effects become visible on a macroscopic scale. So maybe at the "end" of the universe quantum effects become so big that they result in a new universe popping into existence.

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Originally posted by ballmouse Is it possible our assumptions of the universe are wrong?

Sure.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles I don't think so. The assumptions I listed seem to apply to anything with a body. But maybe you want to say that consciousness can exist without any physical substrate whatsoever. My reply would be: evidence?

Is there a calculation that determines when all useful energy will be dissapated?

ITT:

Insignificant MORTAL MINDS discussing the UNKNOWN...




Immortality...get over it plz...



we should be grateful for transient life...

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Originally posted by Lunar Phase 7 Is there a calculation that determines when all useful energy will be dissapated?

I don't think so, since we don't know the total amount of energy in the universe.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles I don't think so, since we don't know the total amount of energy in the universe.

Just wondering cause I remember they have estimated the total mass, and so I was wondering if they had calculated to total energy too.

Also are there no space anomalies that generate energy, even is hypothetical?

I wish i carried on physics, as it really interests me, I'm just too dumb to get my head aroundf the maths.

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Originally posted by Lunar Phase 7 I wish i carried on physics, as it really interests me, I'm just too dumb to get my head aroundf the maths.

agreed...

although knowing the Math just bogs down your mind with unnecesary grunt work at a certain point...

the theories are all that really matter

quote:

Originally posted by Lunar Phase 7 Also are there no space anomalies that generate energy, even is hypothetical?

I don't think so. Conservation of energy is one of the most fundamental principles of physics. If it were found to be untrue, then all kinds of crazy things might be possible (perpetual motion, for example).

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I wish i carried on physics, as it really interests me, I'm just too dumb to get my head aroundf the maths.

I don't really know much more than the basic concepts myself.

well the bible says we are all immortals. what more of an explanation do you need?

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