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Crazy stuff from the Bible

Either God is stupid, or he was constantly pissed when he spoke the words of the Bible, and couldn't remember what he'd previously said! He is also technically a war criminal and would be sharing a cell with Milosovic were they both on Earth today (as it is they're probably sharing stories of smiting upstairs!)

Anyway, check these beauties out from the Bible:

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"For I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not keep anger forever." (Jeremiah 3:12) "Ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn forever." (Jeremiah 17:4)

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"Jacob said, 'I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.'" (Genesis 32:30) "No man hath seen God at any time." (John 1:18)

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We should fear God (Matthew 10:28) We should love God (Matthew 22:37) There is no fear in love (1 John 4:18)

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"But anyone who says 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell." (Jesus) Mat 5:22 "You fools!" (Jesus) Luke 11:40 "You blind fools!" (Jesus) Mat 23:17 "How foolish you are" (Jesus) Luke 24:25

And now God the war criminal:

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"I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children." (Leviticus 26:22) "Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourself every girl who has never slept with a man." (Numbers 31:17-18) "The Lord commands: "... slay old men outright, young men and maidens, little children and women" (Ezechial 9:4-6) "When the Lord delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the males .... As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves." (Deuteronomy 20:13-14) "You will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the Lord your God has given you." (Deuteronomy 28:53) "The Lord said to Joshua [...] 'you are to hamstring their horses.' " (Exceedingly cruel.) (Joshua 11:6) "... Go and smite the inhabitants of Jabesh-gilead with the edge of the sword and; also the women and little ones.... every male and every woman that has lain with a male you shall utterly destroy." (Judges 21:10-12) "This is what the Lord says: Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass .... And Saul ... utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword." (1 Samuel 15:3,7-8) "The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their women with child ripped open." (Hosea 13:16) "A curse on him who is lax in doing the LORD's work! A curse on him who keeps his sword from bloodshed!" (Jeremiah 48:10)

Anyone who says that Islam is the "religion of hate" needs to take a damn good look at what the Bible says!

More crazy stuff from the Bible

good stuff. I love religion

I post this in response to every fundie wacko I see online. Christianity gets wtfPwned starting at 13:00

Re: Crazy stuff from the Bible

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Originally posted by George Smiley Anyone who says that Islam is the "religion of hate" needs to take a damn good look at what the Bible says!

Is not Impressed....

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Jeramiah 3:12-3:14 12 Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith the LORD; and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful, saith the LORD, and I will not keep anger for ever. 13 Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the LORD thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith the LORD. 14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion: Jeramiah 17:1-17:8 1 The sin of Judah is written with a pen of iron, and with the point of a diamond: it is graven upon the table of their heart, and upon the horns of your altars; 2 Whilst their children remember their altars and their groves by the green trees upon the high hills. 3 O my mountain in the field, I will give thy substance and all thy treasures to the spoil, and thy high places for sin, throughout all thy borders. 4 And thou, even thyself, shalt discontinue from thine heritage that I gave thee; and I will cause thee to serve thine enemies in the land which thou knowest not: for ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn for ever. 5 Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD. 6 For he shall be like the heath in the desert, and shall not see when good cometh; but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land and not inhabited. 7 Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is. 8 For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, and that spreadeth out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat cometh, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit

Hmm... if you don't take them out of context then they are hardly contradictory... both passages talk about the forgiveness of sin... in 17:4 the "fire in mine anger, which shall burn forever" is for unrepentant sinners... God "will not keep anger forever" to those who repent. My guess is that if you actually read the other quotes you posted in context you'd find the same thing... of course that would go against your pre-conceived notions regarding the bible so why would you want to do that?

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard Hmm... if you don't take them out of context then they are hardly contradictory... both passages talk about the forgiveness of sin... in 17:4 the "fire in mine anger, which shall burn forever" is for unrepentant sinners... God "will not keep anger forever" to those who repent. My guess is that if you actually read the other quotes you posted in context you'd find the same thing... of course that would go against your pre-conceived notions regarding the bible so why would you want to do that?

Nah mate, God was a nutter!

What about him being a war criminal?

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Originally posted by George Smiley Nah mate, God was a nutter! What about him being a war criminal?

that was all before the Geniva convention

In truth, I don't have the time nor inclination to look it all up; however, I would suggest that taken out of context the verses you cite mean very little. I would further remind that the Old Testament is a bizzar combination of history, prophesy, secular laws, and morality tales. One must read those books as a whole in order to gain any insight from them; however, one thing that is clear is that these books cannot be 100% litteral... one must use reason and critical thinking to judge what they believe is true, allagory, or embellishment. Personally, I think it's a little nuts to believe that God gave explicit commands on matters of military conquest and the pillaging of the defeated, more likely these are verses that have been ascribed to God as justification for the actions of men.

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard that was all before the Geniva convention In truth, I don't have the time nor inclination to look it all up; however, I would suggest that taken out of context the verses you cite mean very little. I would further remind that the Old Testament is a bizzar combination of history, prophesy, secular laws, and morality tales. One must read those books as a whole in order to gain any insight from them; however, one thing that is clear is that these books cannot be 100% litteral... one must use reason and critical thinking to judge what they believe is true, allagory, or embellishment. Personally, I think it's a little nuts to believe that God gave explicit commands on matters of military conquest and the pillaging of the defeated, more likely these are verses that have been ascribed to God as justification for the actions of men.

well stated

and george, you are going to be right there in the 9th circle if you do not accept Christ as your personal savior....

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Originally posted by George Smiley Nah mate, God was a nutter! What about him being a war criminal?

You've got your wires crossed. Your argument is not with God but the authors of the bible.

Hobbes puts it quite nicely in his little work "Leviathan"

(emphasis mine)

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Originally posted by Thomas Hobbes From whence we may infer that when we believe any saying, whatsoever it be, to be true, from arguments taken, not from the thing itself, or from the principles of natural reason, but from the authority and good opinion we have of him that hath said it; then is the speaker, or person we believe in, or trust in, and whose word we take, the object of our faith; and the honour done in believing is done to him only. And consequently, when we believe that the Scriptures are the word of God, having no immediate revelation from God Himself, our belief, faith, and trust is in the Church; whose word we take, and acquiesce therein. And they that believe that which a prophet relates unto them in the name of God take the word of the prophet, do honour to him, and in him trust and believe, touching the truth of what he relateth, whether he be a true or a false prophet. And so it is also with all other history. For if I should not believe all that is written by historians of the glorious acts of Alexander or Caesar, I do not think the ghost of Alexander or Caesar had any just cause to be offended, or anybody else but the historian. If Livy say the gods made once a cow speak, and we believe it not, we distrust not God therein, but Livy. So that it is evident that whatsoever we believe, upon no other reason than what is drawn from authority of men only, and their writings, whether they be sent from God or not, is faith in men only.

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Originally posted by atbell You've got your wires crossed. Your argument is not with God but the authors of the bible.

Well obviously duh! God doesn't exist!

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Originally posted by George Smiley Well obviously duh! God doesn't exist!

i was bored and I can't fall asleep

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Originally posted by George Smiley Well obviously duh! God doesn't exist!

That's lucky you understand, cause you'd look silly arguing with yourself.

Ah but I'm not the one that believes in the Bible literally...

My argument is that the Bible is a load of gibberish (well, I suppose Jesus does make some good points, but he'd have made them a damn sight better had he not tried to pass it off as God's word instead of his own, but then I suppose you have to consider the time and the delinquents he was trying to convince)

There are probably as many Christians who believe the Bible is literal and the word of God as there are Muslims who believe the same.

The Bible contains a number of hilarious contradictions, but also contains as much blood thirsty violence as the Koran, which either faith, believing their book to be God's words, could use to justify like-minded violence.

Likewise, just because some Muslims do, that does not reflect on the religion, because as I said, both religions justify violence in their texts, so you can't say "Islam is evil because it says they can kill in the Koran" because the Bible says exactly the same. You can only criticise the people who interpret it that way.

But the moral of the story is, ALL religions are idiotic. Fact

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Originally posted by George Smiley But the moral of the story is, ALL religions are idiotic. Fact

Obviously minus the parts about being a decent person and respecting each other, etc, etc. That's actually not that bad at all, I just wish people who were religious would take note of that part of their religion and not the part that says KILL KILL KILL (or the fact that most of them put the emphasis in believing in God rather than on how to be a good person)

I agree with Moral Hazard. It's very easy to take passages out of context to mean anything the observer wants to believe.

I find the bible to be a revelation from another reality outside of our space-time universe and beyond any scientific measurement or comprehension, so I am not surprised at all at the confusion of humanity with the divine.

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Originally posted by Krypton I agree with Moral Hazard. It's very easy to take passages out of context to mean anything the observer wants to believe. I find the bible to be a revelation from another reality outside of our space-time universe and beyond any scientific measurement or comprehension, so I am not surprised at all at the confusion of humanity with the divine.

But it was written by humans.... How can it be a revelation from another reality if it was written by people just like you and me. It may seem from another reality because it is very old text, meant for people that had different circumstances and a different perception of the world that we have. The bible is so open to interpretation (as are many other texts) that it is easy for anyone to draw some enlightening conclusion from it. You can read it as you want. It's been around for so long, no one really knows what message they were trying to convey in the first place.

There is no denying that the bible is incoherent. It was written by many people, in many places at different times. They did the best they could to match up the more coherent books out there during the council of Nicea, but in the end, it is impossible to bunch up together such a diverse collection of ideas. The fact is, the bible was arbitrarily put together. Any of the books the church calls apocrypha could up ended up in it. I've always thought the bible is a decent self help book, nothing more.

Nah I'm pretty swayed by krypton's space-time continuem theory

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Originally posted by George Smiley My argument is that the Bible is a load of gibberish (well, I suppose Jesus does make some good points, but he'd have made them a damn sight better had he not tried to pass it off as God's word instead of his own, but then I suppose you have to consider the time and the delinquents he was trying to convince)

You've either never read the Gospels or you didn't pay attention... Jesus, while living, takes great care to point out that he is a man and never portrays himself as devine.

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There are probably as many Christians who believe the Bible is literal and the word of God as there are Muslims who believe the same.

This is doubtful as Roman Catholics make up approximately half of Christianity at present and they do not believe the bible to be entirely litteral nor do they consider all of it to be the word of God.

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The Bible contains a number of hilarious contradictions, but also contains as much blood thirsty violence as the Koran, which either faith, believing their book to be God's words, could use to justify like-minded violence.

Your issue here should be with the Jews not the Christians, as the blood thirsty portions of the Bible are in the Old Testament which is rendered void by Jesus' commandment to "love one another as [he] has loved [us]." Unfortunately, there are Christians who still cling to the teachings of the Old Testament; however, this is actually contrary to their faith. In this instance one must conclude that the problem is not related to the religion itself but to the misguided parishener. Violent people will find something to justify their violent behaviour... if not religion they'd use philosophy or some other belief system (ugenics perhaps).

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Likewise, just because some Muslims do, that does not reflect on the religion, because as I said, both religions justify violence in their texts, so you can't say "Islam is evil because it says they can kill in the Koran" because the Bible says exactly the same. You can only criticise the people who interpret it that way.

I agree with you here.

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But the moral of the story is, ALL religions are idiotic. Fact

Fact? How so, because you declaire it? All religions, ALL, have merit and value. Even if there is no devine being or universal truths there is still merit in the guidence, codes of conduct, and stores of wisdom provided through religions. To state all religions are idiotic is in itself idiotic as you dismiss all the good things to have come from religion, which far out weighs the bad.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I worship at the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

Here is an Open Letter to the Kansas City School Board on behalf of my religion:

I have been touched by his noodly appendage.

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Originally posted by LazFX

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Originally posted by venomX But it was written by humans.... How can it be a revelation from another reality if it was written by people just like you and me. It may seem from another reality because it is very old text, meant for people that had different circumstances and a different perception of the world that we have. The bible is so open to interpretation (as are many other texts) that it is easy for anyone to draw some enlightening conclusion from it. You can read it as you want. It's been around for so long, no one really knows what message they were trying to convey in the first place. There is no denying that the bible is incoherent. It was written by many people, in many places at different times. They did the best they could to match up the more coherent books out there during the council of Nicea, but in the end, it is impossible to bunch up together such a diverse collection of ideas. The fact is, the bible was arbitrarily put together. Any of the books the church calls apocrypha could up ended up in it. I've always thought the bible is a decent self help book, nothing more.

Sure it was written by humans, but for some reason, the bible has a strange cohesion for being written by over 40 authors, at different times spanning thousands of years, in different places, cultures, by average men, kings, and prophets, young and old, covering history, prophecy, and poetry. I simply can't just write off the bible as a simple self-help book. The bible is unique in its composition that despite the differences in the authors lives, still maintains a cohesion no other holy book can claim. I have not come across another holy book that wasn't written by little more than 1 author.

I think the councils did their job canonizing the different books floating around the ancient world for proof of divine inspiration, eye-witness account by the authors, and agreement with accepted canon texts. Their investigations ruled out the apocrapha's very well with questionable authorship, non-agreement with accepted canon, and the requirement for eye-witness account by every author. I can trust the gospels as truth because they written by eye-witnesses, who better to write about Jesus than the very people who lived with him 24/7??

We can certainly agree to disagree, especially with some of the atheists on this board, but as I said, I believe the bible to be divinely inspired revelation from a reality outside scientific inquiry.

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You've either never read the Gospels or you didn't pay attention... Jesus, while living, takes great care to point out that he is a man and never portrays himself as devine.

Jesus very much claimed himself as divine...

John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Why do you think the Jews wanted him executed so badly for blasphemy?

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard You've either never read the Gospels or you didn't pay attention... Jesus, while living, takes great care to point out that he is a man and never portrays himself as devine.

Is he not supposed to be God on Earth?

And whether he portrays himself as devine or not, Christianity says that he is devine (they had a vote on the issue!)

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This is doubtful as Roman Catholics make up approximately half of Christianity at present and they do not believe the bible to be entirely litteral nor do they consider all of it to be the word of God.

And how many Muslims believe the Koran literally?

Anyway, it was just a phrase of expression. The point is, there are a hell of a lot of Christians who believe the Bible literally (iirc this is what defines Evangelicals and there are 70 million of them in America alone)

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Your issue here should be with the Jews not the Christians, as the blood thirsty portions of the Bible are in the Old Testament which is rendered void by Jesus' commandment to "love one another as [he] has loved [us]." Unfortunately, there are Christians who still cling to the teachings of the Old Testament; however, this is actually contrary to their faith. In this instance one must conclude that the problem is not related to the religion itself but to the misguided parishener. Violent people will find something to justify their violent behaviour... if not religion they'd use philosophy or some other belief system (ugenics perhaps).

Well ok, if you say so, I'll blame it all on the joos! (Only messin!) Either way, the Old Testament is a Christian book as well as Jewish, so its up to the individual Christian to decide which contradiction he should follow, just like it is up to the individual Muslim to decide whether to justify actions based on the peace verses or the mentalist war verses (that, is probably not the correct term)

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Fact? How so, because you declaire it? All religions, ALL, have merit and value. Even if there is no devine being or universal truths there is still merit in the guidence, codes of conduct, and stores of wisdom provided through religions. To state all religions are idiotic is in itself idiotic as you dismiss all the good things to have come from religion, which far out weighs the bad.

I did actually say all that in the post after I posted that above.

But if we leave aside all the God nonsense from religion, and only concentrate on, for example, Jesus' guide to life, is that really religion what we have left, or is it merely another political philosophy to go with all the others like Marxism or Liberalism?

The fact is, religion is defined mainly by a belief in something (the existance of which is usually questionable), or faith, in order to make an idea presentable to people.

But today, this faith is not needed to create an ideology and present it to people, then the need for God in ideologies has vanished.

Religion no longer has the preserve of ideas, only of God.

The ones that have not worked that out tend to put too much emphasis on belief in God than in the ideas proposed by their respective religion. Belief in God seems to be more important than being a good person (something you don't need God for) and this has adverse effects such as the aids crisis in Africa, horrible oppression in dictatorships and a complete psychopath in charge of the largest military in the world!

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Originally posted by Krypton Jesus very much claimed himself as divine... John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Perhaps there is a suggestion of divinity there but he certainly did not overtly state he was divine. This verse could just as easily mean that only by following Jesus' teachings could one gain access to God. That same passage goes on to refer to God as the Father and Jesus as a son but he also refers to all people as God's Children (interestingly... Jesus' in the original Aramaic texts refers to God as Abba, which doesn't mean father... it's meaning is closer to Daddy... it's a very informal word).

Jesus goes out of his way to avoid claiming divinity by not giving straight answers when asked... normally saying things like "if you say I am", or "as you state", never does he say "I am the son of God and divine" or anything close.

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Originally posted by George Smiley Is he not supposed to be God on Earth? And whether he portrays himself as devine or not, Christianity says that he is devine (they had a vote on the issue!)

Yes, Christians (myself included) believe Jesus to be divine; however, he does not state this. You're statement was that Jesus would be more influential if he had not tried to pass himself off as divine, I was mearly pointing out that he never did.

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The point is, there are a hell of a lot of Christians who believe the Bible literally

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But if we leave aside all the God nonsense from religion, and only concentrate on, for example, Jesus' guide to life, is that really religion what we have left, or is it merely another political philosophy to go with all the others like Marxism or Liberalism? The fact is, religion is defined mainly by a belief in something (the existance of which is usually questionable), or faith, in order to make an idea presentable to people. But today, this faith is not needed to create an ideology and present it to people, then the need for God in ideologies has vanished. Religion no longer has the preserve of ideas, only of God.

Sorry friend, I think you're being too dismissive. If you actually believe that religion no longer serves a useful purpose in society then I fear your eyes are closed. I'm not saying that it is a necessity but you cannot discount it as being without merit. There is far more good done in the name of God then there is evil and what evil is done is done by persons manipulating religion to suit their own agenda.

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard Perhaps there is a suggestion of divinity there but he certainly did not overtly state he was divine. This verse could just as easily mean that only by following Jesus' teachings could one gain access to God. That same passage goes on to refer to God as the Father and Jesus as a son but he also refers to all people as God's Children (interestingly... Jesus' in the original Aramaic texts refers to God as Abba, which doesn't mean father... it's meaning is closer to Daddy... it's a very informal word). Jesus goes out of his way to avoid claiming divinity by not giving straight answers when asked... normally saying things like "if you say I am", or "as you state", never does he say "I am the son of God and divine" or anything close.

Uh, I don't think so. It's pretty straightforward. Jesus overtly states that he himself IS the way, is truth, and life. That's pretty much saying "I'm divine." I can't say that I am the embodiment of truth. I can't say I am the way, and I certainly can't say I am the personification of eternal life as Jesus stated numerous times. His followers and detractors all understood his words to claim divinity.

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard Yes, Christians (myself included) believe Jesus to be divine; however, he does not state this. You're statement was that Jesus would be more influential if he had not tried to pass himself off as divine, I was mearly pointing out that he never did.

Right, so Jesus never claimed to be anything to do with God? Because my exact quote, was that Jesus tried to "pass it off as God's word"

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Sorry friend, I think you're being too dismissive. If you actually believe that religion no longer serves a useful purpose in society then I fear your eyes are closed. I'm not saying that it is a necessity but you cannot discount it as being without merit. There is far more good done in the name of God then there is evil and what evil is done is done by persons manipulating religion to suit their own agenda.

I don't completely dismiss religion as having no useful purpose in society, just that, as you say, it is no longer necessary to carry a certain message/guide to life (that now ideology can carry without the need for worshiping/fearing God)

I also fundamentally reject the requirement to worship and fear God in order to be a "good person" (which religion tells me I should)

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