TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Political Discussion / Debate
-- Somalia & the Islamic Courts Union
Somalia & the Islamic Courts Union
Unreported World - Somalia & the Islamic Courts Union
If you don't know much about recent Somali events, this video will help you understand. After over a decade of constant civil war, a group calling themselves the Islamic Courts Union gained prominence as a trustworthy authority for Somalis tired of corruption, warfare, and economic collapse. They took over the capital in 2006. They opened Mogadishu International Airport for the first time in over a decade. They reopened the Port of Mogadishu after a decade of closure. A legitamite court system began administering justice in civic AND criminal cases. They had massive support of the populace for bringing law and order back and actually doing something to restore the Somali country.
Unfortunately, foreign powers decided the party was over, and Ethiopia, along with US support destroyed what could have been a return from failed-state status for Somalia. Regime-change, as always is what really matters, not domestic self-determination.
Well, the map below is how it went down in 2006, with Ethiopia using superior forces to obliterate the ICU forces, and now today, is Mogadishu safer? I think the answer is a resounding HELL NO. It's stuff like this that really pisses me off with this neoconservatism bullshit that's hijacked US policy.
What domestic progress was destroyed in Somalia...
| quote: |
| On 6 June 2006 the ICU further claimed it was in control of all the lands up to 100 kilometers (62 miles) inland from Mogadishu. The warlords were reported to have either been captured or to have fled the city, abandoning most of their weapons, with the majority fleeing to Jowhar, which was taken by the ICU militia on 14 June. This brought ICU in control of much of the weaponry in the country, which made a resurgence by the warlords difficult without outside support. The ICU also controlled significant territory outside the capital, including the important town of Balad. In mid-August, ICU militiamen swept into the port town of Hobyo, 500 kilometers north of Mogadishu, meeting no opposition. The ICU organized a clean-up campaign for the streets of Mogadishu on 20 July. This was the first time litter and rubbish had been collected in the entire city since it collapsed into chaos over a decade earlier. On July 15, 2006, the Islamic Courts reopened Mogadishu international airport, which had been closed since the withdrawal of the international forces in 1995. The first airplane chartered by the Arab League flew from the airport for the first time in 11 years picking up Islamic Courts delegates to the Sudanese capital of Khartoum. On August 15, 2006, the ICU captured Haradhere, some 500km northeast of Mogadishu, which had become a safe haven for pirates, who had forced shipping firms and international organisations to pay large ransoms for the release of vessels and crews. On August 25, 2006 the Islamic Courts reopened historic Mogadishu seaport, which was formerly one of the busiest in East Africa but had been shut down for 10 years. On October 5, 2006 the Islamic Courts declared the formation of the supreme Islamic Sharia court of Banadir province, ending all tribal Islamic Courts in the capital. |
| quote: |
| Meanwhile, in the United States the Bush administration neither confirmed nor denied support for either side. However, it was reported that American officials had anonymously confirmed that the U.S. government was funding the ARPCT, due to concerns that the ICU is linked to al-Qaeda and is sheltering three al-Qaeda leaders involved in past terror attacks, including the 1998 U.S. Embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania. |
Anybody watch the video?
The Islamists are fighting back and slowly taking back what they won in 2006. I hope they win and destroy the useless corrupt puppet government which exists only because foreign troops occupy the country. Reminds me a lot of a couple other countries...
| quote: |
| Somali Islamists seize port as insurgency gains NAIROBI, Kenya � An increasingly powerful Islamic insurgency is advancing toward Somalia's seaside capital, capturing town after town and seizing territory from the weak U.N.-backed government often without firing a shot. But analysts say the hardline militants cannot achieve their ultimate goal of laying siege to Mogadishu, the capital, while powerful Ethiopian troops remain stationed in the once-beautiful city on the shore of the Indian Ocean. Somalia's two-year insurgency has already killed thousands and will likely continue as fighters consolidate territory, undermining peace talks between more moderate opposition members and the government. The U.N. has tried to advance the talks, but a recent deal seems only to have worsened the violence. Militants from Al-Shabab � which the U.S. considers a terrorist organization � have refused to take part in the peace talks, saying Ethiopians troops that support the government must leave first. The group aims to impose Shariah law on Somalia. Somalia has not had a functioning government since 1991, when warlords overthrew a socialist dictator and turned their clan-based militias on each other. After decades of violence, half the population is expected to be dependent on aid by the end of the year. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081112/ap_on_re_af/af_somalia |
they got another ship today. yeahh modern day pirates kick some ass and protect those fishing waters from greedy japanese fisherman who shouldn't fish there anyway
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=80313
that's some shit that went unddddder the radar, i'm not even sure anyone knows what the real deal is
| quote: |
| Originally posted by diesel_tron3000 they got another ship today. yeahh modern day pirates kick some ass and protect those fishing waters from greedy japanese fisherman who shouldn't fish there anyway http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=80313 that's some shit that went unddddder the radar, i'm not even sure anyone knows what the real deal is |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Krypton The Islamists are fighting back and slowly taking back what they won in 2006. I hope they win and destroy the useless corrupt puppet government which exists only because foreign troops occupy the country. |
I disagree that ICU provides "stability" and security ... they're a lot like Taliban to me. In particularly when it comes to human rights (women's rights), democracy, freedoms and all the fancy. They dont control the situation, they feud constantly, civil war is in full force, violence in Mogadishu is almost daily.
Previous socialist dictators were horrible, but now the situation is nowhere better.
Its hard to fight the radical Islamists, whether or not their case is good/bad or whether you support them or not. If you like Taliban, then ICU is down your valley. ICU can bring "stability" and "peace" to the country, but at what cost - and will they guarantee that the feuds will end? The country is made up of many clans and provinces which will be hard to control by force if ICU takes control, make no mistake about it. The pirates have been in full force ever since Socialist leader was toppled, and last time I checked, the Islamists could care less about the pirates ...
ICU is not going to make friends with Kenya or especially Ethiopia, who are bitter enemies. Perpetual war between ICU and Ethiopia will be in the books if ICU takes the upper hand in Somalia.
Ethiopia will never accept ICU ...
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Magnetonium I disagree that ICU provides "stability" and security ... they're a lot like Taliban to me. In particularly when it comes to human rights (women's rights), democracy, freedoms and all the fancy. They dont control the situation, they feud constantly, civil war is in full force, violence in Mogadishu is almost daily. Previous socialist dictators were horrible, but now the situation is nowhere better. Its hard to fight the radical Islamists, whether or not their case is good/bad or whether you support them or not. If you like Taliban, then ICU is down your valley. ICU can bring "stability" and "peace" to the country, but at what cost - and will they guarantee that the feuds will end? The country is made up of many clans and provinces which will be hard to control by force if ICU takes control, make no mistake about it. The pirates have been in full force ever since Socialist leader was toppled, and last time I checked, the Islamists could care less about the pirates ... ICU is not going to make friends with Kenya or especially Ethiopia, who are bitter enemies. Perpetual war between ICU and Ethiopia will be in the books if ICU takes the upper hand in Somalia. Ethiopia will never accept ICU ... |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Krypton Did you watch the video expose? |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Magnetonium Now I did. Surely there are some good points there. Surprising to find they are establishing some law and order in a non-oppressive way. But that was a guided tour, for sure - you won't get to see or understand everything unless you live there for a bit. One of the kids clearly said that things were better in the UK, LOL .... But obviously extremists and Al-Qaeda are strong there. Islamic Courts, aka militant Islamic fighters have been accused of killing foreigners and aid workers. Plus I think that the group will pursue more Islamic/Wahhabist approach once it seizes control over the country. In the meantime they are playing a smart game of tolerance to groups and people who are not threatening them. They dont appear to be extermists, but the way they proclaim jihad and bring their children to the front lines is scary. But by all accounts it appears that ICU will provide better security and stability to Somalia than the American/Ethiopian backed forces. Its the fear of militant Islam, I suppose. Though warlords have failed to provide security and stability that ICU may be able to provide. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Krypton What do you expect in a conflict zone? That foreigners are somehow going to be protected? Al-Qaeda is nothing more than a name. Do you actually think the ICU is a threat to your country? LOL... What is the War on Terror? If not our own form of "jihad"... |
I am quite a private person despite my participation on this forum - I'm far from the person like you imagine I am on the forums, once you get to know me - and you won't - not on the forums
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Magnetonium Good points. I also agree that the whole Al Qaeda thing is just a label that politicians and even average people attach to any Muslims who preach anti-American agenda. ICU is pretty harmless, I cant imagine them taking control over Africa or the region for that matter. I think the issue is about the whole Islamic sharia-centered system, which is considered to be a threat to the neighbours ... not all Somalis are associated with that branch of Islam anyway, and Somaliland and Puntland seem to enjoy their current semi-independent position. I still dont want ICU to run the country. Of course any radical religious system will be better at controlling a country, whether its Islamic or else, but I dont think in the long run its a good thing for its people. I wont get into details about other reasons, I dont get into details about all my beliefs and things I support, if you know what I mean I am quite a private person despite my participation on this forum - I'm far from the person like you imagine I am on the forums, once you get to know me - and you won't - not on the forums |
It's basically a choice between the Talibans and anarchy. Neither is good, but I somehow resent Talibans a bit more.
| quote: |
| Somali Islamists seize town, impose Islamic law MOGADISHU, Somalia � Advancing ever closer to Somalia's beleaguered capital, heavily armed Islamic fighters declared Thursday they will use strict Muslim rules to bring their lawless Horn of Africa country back under control. The latest conquest by Islamic forces came late Wednesday in Elasha, 10 miles from the capital of Mogadishu. Thousands of people who have fled a bloody, two-year insurgency are living there in flimsy huts made of sticks and plastic tarp. Islamic fighters now control most of southern and central Somalia, with the crucial exceptions of Mogadishu and Baidoa, where the parliament for Somalia's weak, U.N.-backed government sits. Further complicating the situation, Ethiopia, which has backed Somalia in its fight against the groups, has pulled back from some positions as part of a peace deal with moderate Islamists. The Ethiopian regime says it wants to withdraw, but others believe it has calculated that an occupation of Somalia is better than having a radical Islamist regime next door. The insurgents, who are fighting to enforce Shariah law in Somalia, are not a homogenous group. Al-Shabab, which the U.S. considers a terror group because of its leaders' alleged links to al-Qaida, controls the most territory. Elasha, however, was taken over by more moderate fighters. "Our fighters have taken the control of the area to provide security for the displaced people" suffering under the constant fighting, said Abdirahin Isse Adow, a spokesman for the Islamist forces in Elasha. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081113...e_af/af_somalia |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Magnetonium I disagree that ICU provides "stability" and security ... they're a lot like Taliban to me. In particularly when it comes to human rights (women's rights), democracy, freedoms and all the fancy. They dont control the situation, they feud constantly, civil war is in full force, violence in Mogadishu is almost daily. Previous socialist dictators were horrible, but now the situation is nowhere better. Its hard to fight the radical Islamists, whether or not their case is good/bad or whether you support them or not. If you like Taliban, then ICU is down your valley. ICU can bring "stability" and "peace" to the country, but at what cost - and will they guarantee that the feuds will end? The country is made up of many clans and provinces which will be hard to control by force if ICU takes control, make no mistake about it. The pirates have been in full force ever since Socialist leader was toppled, and last time I checked, the Islamists could care less about the pirates ... ICU is not going to make friends with Kenya or especially Ethiopia, who are bitter enemies. Perpetual war between ICU and Ethiopia will be in the books if ICU takes the upper hand in Somalia. Ethiopia will never accept ICU ... |
SO, it turns out that Islamic Courts are intermingled with the pirates. So much for Krypton's glory stories of great future for Somalia ... 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/7737375.stm
Pirates 'working with Islamists'
quote:
Somali pirates have been accused of forming what is described as an "unholy high seas alliance" with some of the country's Islamist insurgents.
Jane's Terrorism and Security Monitor says certain insurgents are using pirates to smuggle weapons and supplies and help provide bases in return.
The London-based newsletter says pirates are also training Somali hardliners in naval tactics.
The links are traced to 2007, after Ethiopian forces invaded Somalia.
The Union of Islamic Courts (UIC), which took control of much of southern Somalia in 2006, had cracked down on pirate operations in Hobyo and Harardheere.
They even freed a dhow captured by the pirates in August 2006.
But after the UIC were ousted, various Islamic groups formed links with the pirates.
Maritime force
Bruno Schiemsky - who formerly monitored UN arms shipments into Somalia - says these links take a variety of forms:
Islamists have used the pirates to bring in arms shipments and foreign fighters, providing weapons and training in their use in return. They also help with bases from which the pirates operate
Hardliners, known as the Shabab, now have a degree of control over several pirate groups and provide operating funds and specialist weapons in return for a share of the ransoms being paid to free the ships and crew
As many as 2,500 young Somalis have been trained by the Shabab at points all along the Somali coast
The Islamists are using the pirates to train their own forces in naval tactics so that they can provide protection for arms being smuggled in Somalia from Eritrea.
The article provides details of three arms shipments brought into the country by pirates.
It says two shipments in May were for Sheikh Hassan Abdulle Hersi, who is also known as Hassan Turki, an Islamist leader who is based in southern Somalia near Kismayo.
They are reported to have been picked up from islands off the Eritrean coast.
One was landed south of the capital, Mogadishu, the other brought into Mogadishu port where businessmen are alleged to have bribed port officials to allow them to be landed.
Another shipment arrived in July and is reported to have contained large quantities of weapons including specialist sniper rifles, heavy machine guns, guided anti-tank missiles and anti-aircraft guns, as well as ammunition.
This is said to have been landed in Puntland in north-eastern Somalia.
The maritime force organised by the Shabab - along the lines of the Sea Tigers operated by the Sri Lankan Tamil Tigers - is said to be located in southern Somalia.
They are reported to be 480 strong, and the article says they will operate off the coast of Somalia and northern Kenya.
Religious tolerance? Another chapter of the religion of peace?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7464035.stm
quote:
Somali Christians struggle in Kenya
In a secluded house just outside the Kenyan capital, Nairobi, a group of men and women meet at least once a week to worship in secret.
Their prayer session is simple and conducted in Somali. Elders take turns to pray or read verses from the Somali bible before a sermon is delivered.
There are dozens of Somalis living in Nairobi who have converted from Islam to Christianity.
Some say they have been practising Christianity for more than 10 years.
But they live in constant fear of persecution from members of the Somali community, which is predominantly Muslim.
There is a sizeable Somali community in Kenya, comprising ethnic Somali Kenyans, and a large number of refugees from Somalia.
Most of the community lives in Nairobi's Eastleigh Estate, which is now referred to as Little Mogadishu, after Somalia's capital.
Fundamentalist threat
Many of the refugees fled the war in Somalia.
For a few, it was the threat of religious persecution that forced them to leave their homes and seek refuge in Kenya.
"There was a group of people who wanted to kill me, so I was one of the first refugees to leave Mogadishu because I knew I would be a target as soon as the government collapsed," says Michael, one of the converts.
"The fundamentalists could easily attack me and kill me," he says.
Some of his fellow converts were not so lucky.
"They killed some of my friends. There was a small fellowship that used to meet in my house, about 12 of them, six of them were killed," he says.
Despite fleeing to Kenya, where Christianity is the major religion, life has still not improved for the Somali Christians.
They say they have suffered at the hands of their families and fellow Somalis in Kenya who are angry with their decision to change their religion.
They have been targets of physical attacks and beatings. In other instances, they have had their wives and children taken away from them.
Outcasts
To ward off these reprisal attacks, many hold on to their Muslim names in an attempt to blend in.
Away from home and rejected by their community, the converts say they have been forced to live as outcasts.
The Council of Imams and Preachers of Kenya (CIPK) has rejected claims that the Somali Christians are facing persecution.
Some say they have suffered at the hands of fellow Somalis
"We are very saddened by these claims because Islam gives people the freedom to choose their faith," said Sheikh Hassan Omar, a CIPK official.
"I don't believe the stories by the Somali Christians that they have faced persecution because they converted to Christianity. These are lies," Sheikh Omar said.
He said Kenya has freedom of religion and association, and that the Somali Christians have the freedom to practise their faith and congregate and worship with other Christians.
He dismissed the claims as a ruse to get try to get asylum in the US and other Western countries.
"I would advise them, if they want to go [to the US], they should look for other channels and should not involve Islam and Muslims in the issue."
But Khatazar Gondwe from Christian Solidarity Worldwide, which has been lobbying for protection for the Somali Christians, says there is a problem.
"We have been in contact with the UNHCR (United Nations High Commission for Refugees) in Geneva who have acknowledged that this is an issue," Ms Gondwe says.
Numbers growing
The Somali Christians living in Kenya complain that the UNHCR in Nairobi has not been responsive to their plight.
"According to the refugees, in some cases [the UNHCR] are very unsympathetic, if not hostile, and tell these poor people to go back to camps before they will deal with them," Ms Gondwe says.
"In those camps, these people are in greater danger than they are even in Nairobi itself."
The UNHCR office in Nairobi has denied these claims, saying all refugees get an opportunity to present their case and receive the necessary protection.
UNHCR spokesman Emmanuel Nyabera says the agency has responded to a few cases concerning Somali Christians, but adds that some cases were rejected after they discovered that they were not genuine.
Despite the hardships the face, this unique group of Christians says its numbers are growing.
In the late 1990s, there were barely 20 Somali Christians in Nairobi, but now their number is close to 200, they say.
And they pray that one day they will be accepted by a society that jealously guards its religious beliefs.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Magnetonium SO, it turns out that Islamic Courts are intermingled with the pirates. So much for Krypton's glory stories of great future for Somalia ... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/7737375.stm Pirates 'working with Islamists' |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Krypton Key words.... "The links are traced to 2007, after Ethiopian forces invaded Somalia. The Union of Islamic Courts (UIC), which took control of much of southern Somalia in 2006, had cracked down on pirate operations in Hobyo and Harardheere. They even freed a dhow captured by the pirates in August 2006. But after the UIC were ousted, various Islamic groups formed links with the pirates." After losing power, do you honestly think they give a fuck about it now? Are you going to tell me the transitional government is better? Or that ethiopian occupation is good for Somalia? LOL... |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Magnetonium That still doesnt make them the good guys. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Krypton Good for you? No. Good for Somalia? Not for you to decide...It's called self-determination. Sovereignty is another key word. |
good video Krypton..just curios did u ever study poli sci?
any more vids of these type that u care to share?
| quote: |
| Originally posted by DJ Damerchi good video Krypton..just curios did u ever study poli sci? any more vids of these type that u care to share? |
bump
Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.