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-- CNN readers respond angrily to 'race or gender' story

CNN readers respond angrily to 'race or gender' story

I thought it was interesting that CNN itself published an article about it:

quote:

Within minutes of posting a story on CNN's homepage called "Gender or race: Black women voters face tough choices in South Carolina," readers reacted quickly and angrily. Many took umbrage at the story's suggestion that black women voters face "a unique, and most unexpected dilemma" about voting their race or their gender. CNN received dozens of e-mails shortly after posting the story, which focuses largely on conversations about Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama that a CNN reporter observed at a hair salon in South Carolina whose customers are predominantly African-American. The story states: "For these women, a unique, and most unexpected dilemma, presents itself: Should they vote their race, or should they vote their gender?" Read the story An e-mailer named Tiffany responded sarcastically: "Duh, I'm a black woman and here I am at the voting booth. Duh, since I'm illiterate I'll pull down the lever for someone. Hm... Well, he black so I may vote for him... oh wait she a woman I may vote for her... What Ise gon' do? Oh lordy!" Tiffany urged CNN to "pull this racist crap off" the Web site and to stop calling Hillary the "top female candidate." "Stop calling Barack the "Black" candidate," she wrote. Many readers were upset that the story did not delve beyond a cursory mention of the issues. The article stated: "While race and gender play a role, most women here say they plan to vote based on the issues. They rank health care, education and the economy in order of importance." The salon owner, Angela Jackson, a Clinton supporter, is quoted as saying: "They don't pay my bills. And they're not attached to my belly. Nobody is attached to my belly but me. They don't feed me, clothe me. I don't care what they think. ... She's a woman, I'm a woman." A reader named Joan e-mailed: "Really CNN, is this how you view black women[?] Are you suggesting that white women are going to have it easier [?] How about issues? Should a black woman consider the candidates position on issues, or should we just stick to race and gender. Disgusting!" Matt e-mailed, "The article itself shows black women have brains and actually choose candidates based on issues and not just gender or race, but CNN doesn't seem to give them that credit." Others responding to the story wrote that they want CNN and other media to focus on the substance of the candidates' accomplishments and stances on issues, rather than their appearance. "Since Edwards no longer officially exists, as a white male I face the same choice - either I vote my race (Clinton) or my gender (Obama). Or I could just pick the candidate based on who I think would be best," wrote Michael. Another e-mailer, D.T., who describes herself as a young, white woman, said voters should choose the candidate best qualified to lead. "I'm sure there are plenty of black women who are Republican and could care less who the Dem leader will be," she said. "Close your eyes and look at who can fulfill the best to their promises."

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITIC...=rss_topstories

I liked Michael's reply, personally. Although I'm not much into American politics, I find it weird that they seem to represent a "minority" (to the media) rather than their ideals...

This is beautiful example of how liberals in this country favor minorities...not because they understand or empathize with them (not by a long shot), but rather because they pity them to such a degree with presumptions of minority ignorance...thus engaging in the very forms of racism which they themselves claim to deplore.

Racism isn't always as obvious as the KKK or similar hate-groups. It just as often hides behind pity, born out of feelings of superiority.

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Originally posted by donnybrasco This is beautiful example of how liberals in this country favor minorities...not because they understand or empathize with them (not by a long shot), but rather because they pity them to such a degree with presumptions of minority ignorance...thus engaging in the very forms of racism which they themselves claim to deplore. Racism isn't always as obvious as the KKK or similar hate-groups. It just as often hides behind pity, born out of feelings of superiority.

whaaaaa...?

How does this story represent liberals doing anything? Are you implying once again that CNN is a liberal news agency, because if you are, I'd first like you to prove it.

quote:

Originally posted by donnybrasco This is beautiful example of how liberals in this country favor minorities...not because they understand or empathize with them (not by a long shot), but rather because they pity them to such a degree with presumptions of minority ignorance...thus engaging in the very forms of racism which they themselves claim to deplore. Racism isn't always as obvious as the KKK or similar hate-groups. It just as often hides behind pity, born out of feelings of superiority.

I thought it was a disgusting example of how shit main stream media has become. I used to get a lot of my news from CNN but somewhere along the way I just couldn't take it anymore.

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Originally posted by Lebezniatniko whaaaaa...? How does this story represent liberals doing anything? Are you implying once again that CNN is a liberal news agency, because if you are, I'd first like you to prove it.

You seem to think it's "fair and balanced", so there-in lies the proof.

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Originally posted by donnybrasco You seem to think it's "fair and balanced", so there-in lies the proof.

Ah yes, here we have the classic case of a person without the intellectual capacity to back up arguments, resorting instead to baseless assertions defended with personal attack and deflection.

I hardly think CNN is "fair and balanced" and I'm a little surprised you jumped to that conclusion from my previous post, as CNN does a fine job of distorting news through both lenses.

Point is, even if you accept that there is a liberal media bias (which I do not for the basic reason that any study that shows so has been roundly discredited in academic fora), CNN has repeatedly been one of the most moderate news sources evaluated. Only CSPAN has stuck more closely to the center of the political spectrum, but then again, what kind of commentary does CSPAN offer?

So anyhow, would you care to substantiate your claim that CNN is a liberal news network, or are you going to fling accusations and run from debate as usual?

Here's a study that can get you acquainted with what you're talking about, and from a non-"liberal" perspective too. Imagine that.

http://www.newsroom.ucla.edu/portal...-UCLA-6664.aspx

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Originally posted by Lebezniatniko Point is, even if you accept that there is a liberal media bias

yeah, it irritates me no end when people say this. mostly because they don't seem to be able to grasp that a media outlet's ideological "bias" is completely relative to the bias of the person making the statement.

i for one see most media having a conservative bias; it IS a corporation after all!

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN yeah, it irritates me no end when people say this. mostly because they don't seem to be able to grasp that a media outlet's ideological "bias" is completely relative to the bias of the person making the statement. i for one see most media having a conservative bias; it IS a corporation after all!

There are academic studies that have concluded both - that there is a liberal bias or a conservative bias depending on the methodology used. Point is, there are conservative views and liberal views on each major network (with the possible exception of Fox, since Colmes isn't even a liberal). They average out. They really do - if they didn't, then the media wouldn't be popular among both demographics or respected.

Take MSNBC for example. Keith Olbermann is no conservative. That much is clear. But what about Chris Matthews? He practically foams at the mouth when talking about Hillary and gets a hard-on when interviewing John McCain. Olbermann's bias is known and advertised. Matthews is their hard-hitting objective journalist who is anything but objective. Since their liberal mouthpiece is known (therefore not really a bias persay), couldn't it be said that MSNBC has a conservative bias since conceal it to a far greater extent?

And if you compare American media to media abroad, in Australia or Great Britain and continental Europe, our media is overwhelmingly conservative. All one needs to do is watch a half hour of CNN followed by a half hour of the BBC or CNN International to get an idea.

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatniko And if you compare American media to media abroad, in Australia or Great Britain and continental Europe, our media is overwhelmingly conservative. All one needs to do is watch a half hour of CNN followed by a half hour of the BBC or CNN International to get an idea.

yeah, that's the impression ive always gotten. that said, the US paradoxically produces some of the best "liberal" documentaries you'll ever see. i don't understand the disparity.

PBS and jim lehrer rock my world too.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN PBS and jim lehrer rock my world too.

Yes, Jim Lehrer and Charlie Rose on PBS are top notch!

Makes me want to eat my ass out with a spoon when I watch Tim Russert or Wolf Blitzer.

Watch CNN and watch Fox News nightly, and you can SEE clearly the differences.

I happen to think Fox IS fair and balanced. There are many people who think CNN is fair and balanced. That means to either of us, the other network MUST be by default then, at the other end of the middle-ground, no?

And who exactly am I supposed to get to "prove" the difference between Liberalism and Conservatism? Who defines such things? CNN? Or Fox?

Get my point

I'll call CNN what I want, and you call Fox what you want, and Al Quada will call Al Jazeera what they want, and Brits will call The BBC what they want, etc...

There is no absolute truth about what outlet is what, there's only individual perception...and yours is no more valid than mine. It's just pure individual opinion...

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Originally posted by donnybrasco I happen to think Fox IS fair and balanced.

oh man, you CANT be fucking serious!

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN oh man, you CANT be fucking serious!

Bam!
There it is!

My point is made.

Thanks Raisin!!

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Originally posted by donnybrasco And who exactly am I supposed to get to "prove" the difference between Liberalism and Conservatism? Who defines such things? CNN? Or Fox?

And yet, there are academic studies and institutes that attempt to do just that. I'm sure you're not familiar with the ADA or the ACU, but it's kind of like that.

My point here being that you made that insinuation based on mere personal point of view. And then you defend yourself from attack by saying that any counterpoint can be dismissed as only... a personal point of view. Do you see the hypocrisy in that as clearly as I do?

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Originally posted by donnybrasco Bam! There it is! My point is made. Thanks Raisin!!

no, its not fvcking made, hahaha. there is a certain amount of latitude you can expect, but there are extremes that arent subjective. you might be able to argue about a colour "is it blue?" "is it green?" but it sure as fuck isn't orange

fox news is a pile of shit and im surprised even you watch it.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN no, its not fvcking made, hahaha. there is a certain amount of latitude you can expect, but there are extremes that arent subjective. you might be able to argue about a colour "is it blue?" "is it green?" but it sure as fuck isn't orange fox news is a pile of shit and im surprised even you watch it.

DUH.

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Originally posted by Lebezniatniko And yet, there are academic studies and institutes that attempt to do just that. I'm sure you're not familiar with the ADA or the ACU, but it's kind of like that.

Universities? Doing studies on what Liberalism is?!?

That's like Clinton and his self-created study of what the word "is" is ...ie., it's ludicrous!

And there is no hypocrisy in my statement. I made an observation. You're the one trying to say that it was more than just a P.O.V., not me.

I already said that you have your P.O.V., and I have mine. I think I was clear about that.

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Originally posted by donnybrasco Universities? Doing studies on what Liberalism is?!?

what- because conservatism doesn't exist at uni? come on now, let's be serious!

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN what- because conservatism doesn't exist at uni? come on now, let's be serious!

Oh please, go hang out at any major univ. in the states and you'll see far more liberal viewpoints over conservative. I don't think even the Liberal element debates that TOO much...although to them, on the whole, University politics probably seem generally; "Fair and Balanced"

quote:

Originally posted by donnybrasco Oh please, go hang otu at any major univ. in the states and you'll see far more liberal viewpoints over conservative. I don't think even the Liberal element debates that TOO much...although to them, University politics seem; "Fair and Balanced"

of course there's a prevelance of "liberal" ideas, they're young! i bet even you were a tad liberal when you were a kid.

but this does not mean that resarch done can be immediately thrown out either. i encountered many young Liberals (conservatives) when i was at uni. its not all hippies and marxists you know. ESPECIALLY in the US.

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Originally posted by donnybrasco Oh please, go hang otu at any major univ. in the states and you'll see far more liberal viewpoints over conservative. I don't think even the Liberal element debates that TOO much...although to them, on the whole, University politics probably seem generally; "Fair and Balanced"

Oh boy. You're one of those. The largest student organization at my university was the College Republicans. Yes that is anecdotal, but it just goes to show that your post was plain silly.

And we're talking about academic studies carried out by academics that clearly delineate methodology and are subject to peer-review in order to ensure objectivity. If you really think there is a "liberal bias" among academic journals and research... well, I can see it is a pointless exercise to take anything you write seriously.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN of course there's a prevelance of "liberal" ideas, they're young! i bet even you were a tad liberal when you were a kid.

"When I was a boy, I was quite Liberal.
But when I became a man, I put away childish things"

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatniko If you really think there is a "liberal bias" among academic journals and research... well, I can see it is a pointless exercise to take anything you write seriously.

Cool. Then you'll engage your "ignore" feature and I won't bother you anymore.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN of course there's a prevelance of "liberal" ideas, they're young! i bet even you were a tad liberal when you were a kid.

I went to UC Santa Cruz in California, easily among the most far left liberal/wackiest colleges in the entire US. The extreme liberal atmosphere made me a foaming to the mouth liberal for the first two years, especially when Bush got reelected in 2004. Thankfully I came to my senses.

quote:

Originally posted by donnybrasco This is beautiful example of how liberals in this country favor minorities...not because they understand or empathize with them (not by a long shot), but rather because they pity them to such a degree with presumptions of minority ignorance

Agreed.

How hard is it for human beings to embrace unknown variables?

In their embrace lies every "advancement" we've ever yet come to know.

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