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FBI wants palm prints, eye scans, tattoo mapping

http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/02/04/...rics/index.html

Discuss.

no, wait. really? um...

...ok

Repost

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...8&forumid=16&s=

My bad on the repost, first time it said I couldn't post so I figured it didn't get posted...
So nobody really cares about this?

Have patience. You posted this at 9PM PST, so most of the active users are probably asleep. We do work during the day.

Let's see;

We've already got our fingerprints and mug-shots on file with the DMV (the state).

Most of us have Passports with an equal amount of information on file with the Federal Government.

Banks and Credit Cards companies have some, or all, of the same information on file as well, and we're worried about what exactly?



We live in a world where being identifiable is what allows us to function safely, including protecting our assets from being stolen by Identity Thieves. I, for one, WANT to be properly identifiable for all the POSITIVE reasons that it entails.

The ACLU is worried about "privacy". Please.

So would everyone rather we DON'T use new technologies that may help us track Terrorists and Criminals better, all because we feel some imaginary need to remain completely anonymous? Why? It's not true as it stands right now anyway. And what purpose would it serve the average person anyway??

quote:

Originally posted by donnybrasco We live in a world where being identifiable is what allows us to function safely, including protecting our assets from being stolen by Identity Thieves. I, for one, WANT to be properly identifiable for all the POSITIVE reasons that it entails.

Just because you wish to be identifiable doesn't mean everyone wants to be. That should be decided by the people. If they wish for their information to be publicly displayed by other institutions, corporations, etc, then that's their right. But this should not be a mandatory decision forced down on every American citizen.

quote:

So would everyone rather we DON'T use new technologies that may help us track Terrorists and Criminals better, all because we feel some imaginary need to remain completely anonymous? Why? It's not true as it stands right now anyway. And what purpose would it serve the average person anyway??

The last time I checked, anonymity wasn't imaginary. Again, that's not for you to decide the fate of everyone else's privacy rights. While there may be some benefit in aiding law enforcement to track down terrorists and criminals, there's also a higher risk of abuse by these authorities. You're putting an awful lot of trust in hoping that someday, the same information that is supposed to help you isn't used against you. Bank accounts and SSN's are one thing, but being constantly monitored by RFID chips and infrared scanning devices are another. Why do I wish to have every move I make be scrutinized and monitored by a government known to lie about everything? For safety? What, I'm going to trip and fall on a sidewalk and they'll come rushing in bringing the first aid and a stretcher? I don't buy it. I don't need their kind of "protection," nor do I want it. It's this kind of complacency and short sighted thinking that's going to turn our Republic into a dictatorship.

quote:

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

I'm sure Mr. Franklin would be quite ashamed at seeing how many of you are eager to give up your freedom for protection from "Terrorists."

Soon they will demand nipple prints.

quote:

Originally posted by donnybrasco The ACLU is worried about "privacy". Please.

boomp3.com

quote:

Originally posted by SuspicionVandit boomp3.com

LOL @ "anal cavity."

quote:

Originally posted by Zharen Just because you wish to be identifiable doesn't mean everyone wants to be. That should be decided by the people. If they wish for their information to be publicly displayed by other institutions, corporations, etc, then that's their right. But this should not be a mandatory decision forced down on every American citizen. The last time I checked, anonymity wasn't imaginary. Again, that's not for you to decide the fate of everyone else's privacy rights. While there may be some benefit in aiding law enforcement to track down terrorists and criminals, there's also a higher risk of abuse by these authorities. You're putting an awful lot of trust in hoping that someday, the same information that is supposed to help you isn't used against you. Bank accounts and SSN's are one thing, but being constantly monitored by RFID chips and infrared scanning devices are another. Why do I wish to have every move I make be scrutinized and monitored by a government known to lie about everything? For safety? What, I'm going to trip and fall on a sidewalk and they'll come rushing in bringing the first aid and a stretcher? I don't buy it. I don't need their kind of "protection," nor do I want it. It's this kind of complacency and short sighted thinking that's going to turn our Republic into a dictatorship. I'm sure Mr. Franklin would be quite ashamed at seeing how many of you are eager to give up your freedom for protection from "Terrorists."

If you think you're anonymous in this day and age, you're delusional.

What are you fighting for exactly? Some imagined anonymity that doesn't exist anyway?

quote:

Originally posted by donnybrasco If you think you're anonymous in this day and age, you're delusional. What are you fighting for exactly? Some imagined anonymity that doesn't exist anyway?

I don't think he's saying we're anonymous. What he's saying is that there's a difference between "having information about this person" and "knowing every little thing about this person down to a T, including how long his shit was at 5:35AM."

^^^First off, the government would have to have cause to want to know about your shits at 5:35am.

I think the notion that our government is going to be up in everyone's biz-natch just because they can identify us easier is WAAAAAAAAAAAAY over-estimated.

quote:

Originally posted by donnybrasco ^^^First off, the government would have to have cause to want to know about your shits at 5:35am. I think the notion that our government is going to be up in everyone's biz-natch just because they can identify us easier is WAAAAAAAAAAAAY over-estimated.

Yes, it is. However, who's to say that this isn't something that could end up leading to a 1984-esque government? I'm not saying that it will, but you have to start somewhere, right? That's what they're afraid of. They're not saying that it is going to be that way, they're just trying to prevent it before it even gets close.

i love living in australia!

constantly monitored by RFID chips and infrared scanning devices are another. Why do I wish to have every move I make be scrutinized and monitored by a government known to lie about everything? For safety?


If you do something stupid (like kill someone) ,they will know you did it. Less crime means less privacy. No other way IMO

I can care less about this. I already had to have that done for my job, sans tattoo mapping.

quote:

Originally posted by SkyHigh constantly monitored by RFID chips and infrared scanning devices are another...

Nowhere in that article is it stated that they want to insert RFID chips in to anyone. Nor is this system a MANDATORY system that they are forcing everyone to take part in. Nor is it said that they wish to arbitrarily track everyone and their every movement throughout the country, for no reason other than because they can.

It's simply a database of existing forms of I.D. (garnered mostly from criminals), so they can track them easier. They may wish to do eye scans of criminals in the future, but so what? They have been doing finger-printing for nearly 100 years now, which is the same thing in terms of individual I.D.

This article is overly-sensationalized for the purpose of selling more ad space.

quote:

Originally posted by SkyHigh constantly monitored by RFID chips

yeah, like we're gonna be implanted with chips.

fuck you kids are idiots.

quote:

Originally posted by donnybrasco Nor is this system a MANDATORY system that they are forcing everyone to take part in.

In the future something like this may be required if you want to get a driver's license, since national driver's license standards are going to be established under the REAL ID Act. I tend to dismiss the "implant" idea as paranoia, but it's true that we're moving more and more toward omnipresent surveillance and tracking, and the disappearance of privacy.

Why? Because limits on surveillance and tracking generally mean less personal safety and less efficiency in financial transactions.

Anyway you look at this, its another step into a society of surveillance. Eventually, anywhere you go cameras will be able to ID you based on your face, eyes, even the way you walk.

And to whoever said that people cannot be searched without a warrant...the Patriot Act already showed that to be false.

This advanced surveillance might seem like a good idea to some now, but think of it down the road. What if some laws come about, probably in the interest to some particular entity, which are absurd and you don't agree with? Tough luck, you got nowhere to hide.

And whos to say that the FBI will use this new database only for its intended purpose and nothing else in the future? And that the information will certainly be safe?

This is giving a whole lot of power to the government.

Can't wait for the tinfoil comments...

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles In the future something like this may be required if you want to get a driver's license, since national driver's license standards are going to be established under the REAL ID Act. I tend to dismiss the "implant" idea as paranoia, but it's true that we're moving more and more toward omnipresent surveillance and tracking, and the disappearance of privacy. Why? Because limits on surveillance and tracking generally mean less personal safety and less efficiency in financial transactions.

^^^Maybe, but when you think about it, it's really nothing more than (as the FBI Rep stated) a matter of keeping pace with I.D. technology.

States used to issue DL's without photos years ago! When people started faking them and using them illegally, they added the photos.

Then they started adding security measures in the DL's, like swipe-strips and holograms, etc., all in the interest of staying abreast of security technology.

It would be like sticking with the old currency and all of it's flaws that would allow it to be counterfeited a lot more easily than newer money can be, all because we are ignoring progress. It's impossible to avoid. But more importantly, it's not a leap AHEAD of current I.D. technology, it's simply staying abreast of it.

This isn't Orwellian dogma, it's just the day to day business of a modern society identifying its individuals for their own safety's sake (financial transactions, buying and selling, and to help arrest the right people when they are wanted, etc.), nothing more.

quote:

Originally posted by Elec And whos to say that the FBI will use this new database only for its intended purpose and nothing else in the future? And that the information will certainly be safe?

No one, of course.

The funny thing is that people are already habituating themselves to displaying tons of information about themselves, all on their own with no prompting by governments.

What am I talking about? Why, MySpace and Facebook and all those other profile services, of course, not to mention the many journaling services like Blogger and LiveJournal. People willingly put up all their latest exploits and photos and relationships for friends and future employers to ogle over.

The coming generations will be so used to making so much of their lives publicly available, willingly, that a so-called "surveillance society" will seem like no big deal to them. They already put so much out there for fun, and nothing too bad comes of that...so why not give up a few more things for safety's sake?

quote:

Originally posted by Elec Anyway you look at this, its another step into a society of surveillance. Eventually, anywhere you go cameras will be able to ID you based on your face, eyes, even the way you walk.

and what exactly are the nefarious government going to do whilst they're watching you all day?

quote:

Originally posted by Elec This advanced surveillance might seem like a good idea to some now, but think of it down the road. What if some laws come about, probably in the interest to some particular entity, which are absurd and you don't agree with?

then you vote in a party/president who will change said laws obviously.

quote:

Originally posted by Elec And whos to say that the FBI will use this new database only for its intended purpose and nothing else in the future? And that the information will certainly be safe?

so, again, what do you think the evil government will do with this database? ooooh, so they can recognise me as i walk down the street. so what?

quote:

Originally posted by Elec This is giving a whole lot of power to the government.

yes, and it should certainly be looked upon with caution. but since there is no legal framework for them to demand any personal information they don't already have access to, im not sure why everyone is so paranoid.

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