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people that believe in karma are stupid.

split from the moral dilemma thread.

and no, i dont think omega is stupid. but the rest of you are.

quote:

Originally posted by Omega_M No there isn't. But lack of quantitative evidence does not necessarily mean that the mechanism does not exist. Karma (spiritual or whatever) is simply a cause-effect relation. Cause-Effect is the most fundamental relation which governs the dynamics of the physical universe. I don't see how human actions at all levels are not in any way bound by this relation.

because its ridiculous to contend that there is an inherent "right" or "wrong" in most behaviour, and that in the future that this comes back to you. what about all the "grey" behaviours - is there "grey" karma on the horizon for those straddling the middle?

let's say i steal your girlfriend. this obviously hurts you a great deal. but perhaps she is much happier and more sexually satisfied with me. she and i are now much happier than either of us were when you two were together. where is the wrong or right in this situation?

lack of evidence might not mean the mechanism doesn't exist, but it certainly isn't reason enough to believe that it does. people believe it because you can't prove otherwise, and you can't prove otherwise because its all bullshit.

quote:

Originally posted by Omega_M How will you prove or disprove this ?

the fact that as a naughty boy growing up i engaged in all kinds of illegal and unacceptable behaviour, and because im much smarter than the average bear, i saw no negative repercussions. at all. ever.

quote:

Originally posted by Omega_M Life spans over several decades and given the fact that the reaction may not be equal, opposite or instantaneous, you cannot say that this action will not result in an unpleasant effect at a later stage of your life.

true, but you would have to postulate a method of karmic equilibrium; ie you must have some kind of all-knowing "system" that measures ones activities and meters out just desserts at some stage in the future. im sorry but i find that possibility to be ludicrous, and lacking ANY evidence whatsoever.

there are far too many examples of good people being punished and bad people getting away scott-free for me to believe in karma. the instances of child starvation or cancer speaks volumes (to me) about the universe and her tendency to meet out fair and just outcomes for those that are without "sin".

quote:

Originally posted by Omega_M Human actions originate first in the mind and are then completed through the physical body. If the physical actions qualify as "bad" then I would also qualify the thoughts behind these actions as "bad". Killing someone and wishing someone death are both "bad" in my books. Social karma would simply be a subset of a more generalized version of karma.

the whole fact youre using " " around bad just shows the inherent problem. who is the central "CPU" that is determining what is good and bad, and how good or bad it is? this implies a karmic sentience - another concept i find ridiculous.

quote:

Originally posted by Omega_M Yeah but how would the person who stole the money know that ? There is no way for him to know this for a fact.

irrelevant. we're not talking about knowledge, we're talking about possibilities.

quote:

Originally posted by Omega_M I would go on and say that this may never be 100% true given the fact that stealing money is bad and hence adds up to bad karma and hence is bound to create an unpleasant reaction of some sort.

ive stolen plenty of shit in my life and gotten away with it each and every time. are you contending that everyone in the world that is downloading illegal mp3s is due for some bad karma? or do YOU not view downloading songs as "bad"? what does the sentient karmic being think about mp3s? see, such concerns are blatantly idiotic without SOME plausible explanation for how the mechanisms of karma work.

you can postulate anything and i can't disprove it, but ive never found that as a particularly compelling position to take. i can't prove there arent pink fairies on the dark side of the moon either

Was this an essay, or are you just riled up?

Oh god, not again.

quote:

Originally posted by jennypie Oh god, not again.

LOL

i believe in it, for no reason other than this bloke who was a real c�nt and bully in my grandparents village, he tried to push people about, a benefit cheat, a "union man" and a total c�nt in general got cancer & died. Never seen so many people happy in one go

quote:

Originally posted by jennypie Oh god, not again.

hey, blame omega!

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN hey, blame omega!

Too late!


*punch*

Re: people that believe in karma are stupid.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN let's say i steal your girlfriend. this obviously hurts you a great deal. but perhaps she is much happier and more sexually satisfied with me. she and i are now much happier than either of us were when you two were together. where is the wrong or right in this situation?

for every action there is an equal but opposite reaction.
so i'd say the emotional pain that i would feel (I wouldn't but just for the sake of argument) would be equal to the amount of happiness that was gained between you two. however, my pain is all on one person: myself.
whereas your gained happiness is split between two people.

therefore, the action of you stealing my girlfriend is inherently wrong.

i believe karma exists. its as simple as this. what ever u focus on you attract. if u look for everything with the color green in the wroom u will only see the color green, because your focusing on it. so if your constantly a cocksucker ur gonna lead urself down cocksucker paths and eventually be a cocksuckered by a bigger cocksucker at some point.

there's a lot of cock sucking going on in this thread

*leaves*

quote:

Originally posted by Vivid Boy i believe karma exists. its as simple as this. what ever u focus on you attract. if u look for everything with the color green in the wroom u will only see the color green, because your focusing on it. so if your constantly a cocksucker ur gonna lead urself down cocksucker paths and eventually be a cocksuckered by a bigger cocksucker at some point.

Thanks for that Dr Freud. If you were to be given an enema after death, they could bury you in a matchbox.

quote:

Originally posted by infinity HiGH there's a lot of cock sucking going on in this thread *leaves*

Don't lie, that's what brought you in here.

quote:

Originally posted by jennypie Don't lie, that's what brought you in here.

indeed. false advertising though. i wasn't expecting male-to-male cocksucking.

quote:

Originally posted by RickyM Thanks for that Dr Freud. If you were to be given an enema after death, they could bury you in a matchbox.

i thought u called him dr fraud.

quote:

Originally posted by jennypie Don't lie, that's what brought you in here.

LMAO

this video has been seen countless times; yet, propably one of the best examples relating to do with "Karma". Call it what you will; what goes around comes around.

I've personally learned this time and time again.

I think karma shares the same problem that evolutionary theory does, its all a bunch of post hoc BSing.

quote:

Originally posted by Boomer187 I think karma shares the same problem that evolutionary theory does, its all a bunch of post hoc BSing.

haha. no pkc fishes are biting today though im afraid

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN haha. no pkc fishes are biting today though im afraid

lol, and I thought I was so clever to add in the evo thingie


it is true though, evolutionary theory is faulted routinely for being a post hoc analysis, and I think we can also criticize karma for doing the same. We say bad things will happen sometime to a person, and after a while if a bad thing happens, we put 2 n 2 together



and I am about ready to order my Charles Darwin bust for my library as soon as my house is finished.

quote:

Originally posted by Boomer187 lol, and I thought I was so clever to add in the evo thingie it is true though, evolutionary theory is faulted routinely for being a post hoc analysis, and I think we can also criticize karma for doing the same. We say bad things will happen sometime to a person, and after a while if a bad thing happens, we put 2 n 2 together and I am about ready to order my Walter Sobchak bust for my library as soon as my house is finished.

Fixed, or something

quote:

Originally posted by Clovis EPIC Fixed, or something

fix...



I checked, they are no where to be found.

quote:

Originally posted by Ian i believe in it, for no reason other than this bloke who was a real c�nt and bully in my grandparents village, he tried to push people about, a benefit cheat, a "union man" and a total c�nt in general got cancer & died. Never seen so many people happy in one go

That's all well and good, but what about the millions of decent people who have died from cancer?

Karma is bullshit. There is no luck payoff, no eventual retribution for things we suppose to be "right" or "wrong" as there is no deific presence to decide such things. There are only "laws" which Nature expresses that we can sometimes observe and predict, but even our knowledge of such things is extremely limited.

I don't believe in Karma. Nothing is set in stone and nothing is pre-determined.

What goes around, comes around simple as that.

I don't believe in karma as such, but I definitely think each person is 'repaid' in full for his / her actions that could be perceived as 'wrong'. Then again, who's the ultimate authority to say what's right or what's wrong? Maybe it was the right thing to do at that point of time, who knows?

At the end of the day, Karma is something that cannot be quantized and/or proven by scientific and/or mathematical observation.

Whether you chose to believe in it or not, to each his own.

I believe the widespread idea of "karma" is due to 2 things:

1) if humans are disposed to help each others as much as possible, our species will tend to last longer. It is therefore natural that people engage in mildly subconscious mutual agreements, where both parts are expected to do something to help the other part.

2) any "bad" actions that a human does (ie, actions that go against what is considered acceptable by society) are always more likely to bring that human poor reputation or sanctions from other humans, compared to "good" actions.

Therefore karma is a (shitty) rationalization of these facts, giving an easier, straightforward reason for humans to understand why they shouldn't piss each other off. People are more likely to force themselves to behave if they believe there'll always be a punishment there (harm to their individual being), rather than if they only acknowledge a possibility of punishment, and very-long-term harm for the species.

Just my 2 cents of amateur, cheap, made-up philosophy.

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