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IRL & Champ Cars to finally merge?

let's bloody well hope so. the decade+ rift has killed open-wheel racing and i for one wanna see all the best drivers competing against each other again, as well as introducing more non-oval circuits to the IRL.

fingers crossed people!!!

quote:

MOORESVILLE, N.C. -- Thursday could be one of the most important days in IndyCar racing history as a resolution that would bring Champ Car teams into the IndyCar Series is nearing completion and could become official in two days. The deal has not been completed as of late Tuesday afternoon, however, because IndyCar founder Tony George is in Orlando, Fla. at a meeting for ACCUS, the arm of the FIA which rules all international motorsports. Champ Car principle Kevin Kalkhoven is in London for a family anniversary and is not expected to return until Thursday. "Discussions are ongoing," said IndyCar Series vice president of public relations John Griffin. "There is still an agreement that needs to be completed. "We're confident but discussions are ongoing." Drafts of an agreement between the two sides were exchanged on Tuesday, according to sources. This would end the 13-year war that began when George, the Indianapolis Motor Speedway president, announced the creation of a new racing series on Mar. 20, 1994. At that time, most of the teams which competed in the Indianapolis 500 were in CART, a series that went bankrupt and would later be revived as Champ Car. The series didn't move toward reality until 1995 and began competition on Jan. 27, 1996. George's original intention was to have CART teams participate in what was then known as the Indy Racing League. But most of those teams refused, starting a lengthy and divisive battle for supremacy in North American open wheel racing. Now it appears Champ Car will agree to cease operations, allowing its teams to accept George's offer of a free Dallara chassis and free Honda engines to make the transition to IndyCar. In addition, IndyCar is expected to get Champ Car's race dates for the Long Beach Grand Prix along with street races in Edmonton, Alberta. Surfer's Paradise Australia. Mexico City and Toronto could be added in 2009. This would not be a merger of Champ Car and IndyCar because the IndyCar Series will be the only series in competition. And it is not technically an acquisition because IndyCar will not be acquiring all of the assets of Champ Car. The proper term would be an "amalgamation" which means Champ Car closes up business and its teams join IndyCar. In recent weeks, while George was making his pitch to bring the two sides together, Champ Car's principles including Kalkhoven, Gerald Forsythe, Paul Gentilozzi and Dan Pettit considered one last effort to stage the 2008 season or to file bankruptcy. Either way, the IndyCar Series will now have the opportunity to lead this form of racing into the future with the Indianapolis 500 as its cornerstone event. But any agreement does not necessarily mean a large contingent of Champ Car teams will be joining IndyCar this year. Some teams may close up or enter a new form of racing, such as sports cars. Champ Car teams Walker Racing and Newman-Haas-Lanigan are expected to join the IndyCar Series. But some of IndyCar's current teams, such as Dreyer & Reinbold and Vision Racing (which ironically is owned by George), may have to reduce the number of cars they field this season. Dreyer & Reinbold campaigned two cars in IndyCar last season but may run just one car in 2008. In addition, Vision Racing has 10 cars in its possession and will be the main source of cars for Champ Car teams that decide to join IndyCar. But as former CART and IndyCar driver Robby Gordon said at last week's Daytona 500: "Getting the cars together is the easy part. The hard part was getting the two sides to finally agree to become one." The lengthy war for control of open wheel racing in America coincided with NASCAR's rapid growth to become the premier racing series in the United States. Even with one unified IndyCar Series, it may be difficult to compete in the racing world with NASCAR's huge sponsorship, media and fan base advantages. But at the very least, it will help restore stature to IndyCar's premier event, the Indianapolis 500.

go team andretti!!!!!!!

Yeah I've been following this with a lot of attention. I'm not too much of a fan of oval racing as it's going to have lots this year, but it should be a good platform for better things in the future.

I wonder why F1 keeps ignoring both of them, unless one driver is a triple champion lol

quote:

Originally posted by stren I wonder why F1 keeps ignoring both of them, unless one driver is a triple champion lol

what do you mean? there are plenty of drivers andretti, mansell, montoya, da matta that moved from CART to F1.

but, its pretty hard for an IRL driver to move to F1 because theyre not used to turning right

compared to european racing series, I'd wouldn't say "plenty"

quote:

Originally posted by stren compared to european racing series, I'd wouldn't say "plenty"

well of course, but the drivers in the US simply arent as good imo, which is why the racing is far more interesting

quote:

Originally posted by stren I wonder why F1 keeps ignoring both of them, unless one driver is a triple champion lol

Because US open wheel is currently full of paydrivers, F1 rejects and F3000/GP2 rejects. The standard of driving talent is simply lower. Plus, while some guys that made the change have been good (J Villeneuve, Montoya), others were complete flops (Zanardi, Michael Andretti, and to a lesser extent Da Matta).

champ cars/indy cars are easier to drive too.

so how much of a difference is there,when it comes to power between your typical champ car and an f1 car?

quote:

Originally posted by jfk-pilot so how much of a difference is there,when it comes to power between your typical champ car and an f1 car?

i used to know that off by heart! in essence indy cars had more horsepower, but were much heavier. the gold coast track for instance, there's a 2-4 second per lap difference with the F1 faster.

in the mid 90s a champ car had about 900 HP, whereas an F1 car had about 750.

champ cars also use a modelled underneath for greater grip, use slick tyres but not tyre warmers. they were also turbo charged at about 32 psi which is where all the extra grunt came from. they're a little wider too i think (because they need more structure to protect the driver on oval tracks).

i always thought the champ cars sounded cooler too, tho i havent heard an F1 car in person.

well f1 cars pretty much change every year due to regulations, so there were years of 1000hp f1 machines, but they didnt last long. champ cars usually ranged 700-900 hp, although heavier. im not sure about easier to drive however, as f1 cars have basically driven themselves with all the driver aids for decades now. f1 hasnt much had real drivers machines since the late sixties - before downforce.

even if the drivers are 'less talented' in the US, at least they pass for most of the race. the IRL was bogus for me because George thot that since Indy was legendary and Nascar was popular everyone wanted to see ovals. while i think racing an oval might be entertaining (it certainly keeps a race closer) its piss poor from a viewing standpoint. i always loved the long beach gp or vancouver, etc|

Even with all the aids F1 cars are seriously hard to drive. Im actually glad that every year an aid or two gets banned so that soon it will be just like in the late 80s & early 90s...just man and machine.


And as for overtaking, the guys on top gear had a great idea how to mkae drivers pass eachother more. Give each F1 driver a salary they can live on...50.000� for example. Then, give them a 1.000.000 � each time they overtake somebody and see how long they complain about how hard it is to overtake

quote:

Originally posted by Moongoose Even with all the aids F1 cars are seriously hard to drive. Im actually glad that every year an aid or two gets banned so that soon it will be just like in the late 80s & early 90s...just man and machine. And as for overtaking, the guys on top gear had a great idea how to mkae drivers pass eachother more. Give each F1 driver a salary they can live on...50.000� for example. Then, give them a 1.000.000 � each time they overtake somebody and see how long they complain about how hard it is to overtake

I don't think its because they are not motivated enough to overtake, Its just hard with all the aerodynamics.
Looking forward to 2009 season with a radical reducing of aero + slicks! fuck yeah

quote:

Originally posted by stren I don't think its because they are not motivated enough to overtake, Its just hard with all the aerodynamics. Looking forward to 2009 season with a radical reducing of aero + slicks! fuck yeah

meh, its still its gonna be a money related pissing contest. nothing will change. whomever spends the most gets a chance to pass, but the whole system isnt cohesive enough to accept true competition|

quote:

Originally posted by biznology meh, its still its gonna be a money related pissing contest. nothing will change. whomever spends the most gets a chance to pass, but the whole system isnt cohesive enough to accept true competition|

pretty much. which is why i fell so much in love with CART coz the racing was just so damned close, lots of passing, lots of crashing, and michael andretti had my baby

lol a bunch of cynics here I see
welp, I hope for the best

quote:

Originally posted by stren lol a bunch of cynics here I see welp, I hope for the best

that's due to years of sitting up late and watching a race where there's 10 seconds between each car, and you need to go down to a battle for 9th to see some decent racing.

best cars, best drivers, worst excitement.

I guess I'm still an idealist, this will be my 2nd full season watching F1

quote:

Originally posted by biznology well f1 cars pretty much change every year due to regulations, so there were years of 1000hp f1 machines, but they didnt last long. champ cars usually ranged 700-900 hp, although heavier. im not sure about easier to drive however, as f1 cars have basically driven themselves with all the driver aids for decades now. f1 hasnt much had real drivers machines since the late sixties - before downforce.

Downforce is nowadays present in every major open wheel series, and that includes CART/IRL. It doesn't necessarily make it easier to drive, it only fucks up passing. Thankfully the regulations are changing for 2009, the quality of racing in the last couple years in F1 really went downhill as the cars became ridiculously aero-sensitive when following another car. My opinion is that F1 and Indycars simply require slightly different styles of driving, some might be better at one category and crap at the other, but talent should give race wins anyway.

The other thing that gives CART/IRL close racing is the single-chassis, everyone has the same equipment even if some teams are better at handling it than others, while F1 teams all build their own cars increasing the difference. Personally I like watching both F1 for the top class performance, and GP2/A1GP for entertainment with single-chassis. These lower level european series are full of noob drivers, but that makes it more unpredictable and you can spot some of the future stars before they reach F1.

but it seems that in europe the rise to the top (or lack thereof) is much more institutionalized. there is nothing genetically that makes a european driver *better* than an american one, but it seems that without the strict institution - american drivers are worse.

in the US the culture is a bit more patchwork, but most of the successful drivers have been driving just as long as in europe. its just in autocross, karting, dirt track - not the fia system. that being said, many of the most popular arent the best. ffs in nascar they hire people like boris said to race the road courses as many of the drivers of ovals cannot be competitive. thats bs.

quote:

Originally posted by biznology but it seems that in europe the rise to the top (or lack thereof) is much more institutionalized. there is nothing genetically that makes a european driver *better* than an american one, but it seems that without the strict institution - american drivers are worse. in the US the culture is a bit more patchwork, but most of the successful drivers have been driving just as long as in europe. its just in autocross, karting, dirt track - not the fia system. that being said, many of the most popular arent the best. ffs in nascar they hire people like boris said to race the road courses as many of the drivers of ovals cannot be competitive. thats bs.

American drivers don't lack talent, what happens is that in the US drivers are mostly groomed to race in stockcars in ovals, while in Europe they're mostly groomed to race in open-wheelers in road courses. The fact CART and IRL have been going at each others throats for over a decade doesn't help, NASCAR has won too much ground. Some of the their top talents like Tony Stewart and Allmendinger have moved to NASCAR, this sort of stuff doesn't help.

hay guise!

ohh look, a sports discussion thread. hmm...

quote:

Originally posted by denys envy hay guise! ohh look, a sports discussion thread. hmm...

look for threads that belong in the political discussion , make it your quest!

quote:

Originally posted by stren look for threads that belong in the political discussion , make it your quest!

but they aren't serious discussion. this one actually sounds legit.

quote:

Originally posted by denys envy but they aren't serious discussion. this one actually sounds legit.

sorry for being serious. I'm gonna stop posting in this thread if you want

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