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copyright / sampling issues

Lets say someone was to sample the vocals of the song Waiting Here For You and take just a split second of the "ta" sound from "take me away". Then use the "ta" sound to make effects or whatever throughout his track... what are the copyright issues for this split second sample from recorded vocals? Is it fine to just use it or would there be a royalty fee / and need to get permission from the artist. If permission is needed, who would be the appropriate person to ask, Thrilseekers (the producer) or Aruna (the vocalist).

Im asking because I happened to make a cool sounding effect from First State - Falling song but was afraid to continue because i didnt want to get sued .

You can ask Steve Helstrip (Thrillseekers) himself directly on his board:

http://www.thethrillseekers.co.uk/phpBB2/index.php

He usually answers questions within a week or two, in my experience.

Nevermind; I see you already did that.

Re: copyright / sampling issues

quote:

Originally posted by Krispy Kreme Is it fine to just use it

No. It doesnt matter how small the part you take is, the entire recording is still covered by copyright law.

right, Moby got sued for a lot for that sample of "GO!" ... just one word

Technically maybe its illegal, but if the part you have sampled is very small and then on top of this you add FX etc to it then I don't think anyone would ever know whre you got the sample from and I for one wouldn't bother to get permission

quote:

Originally posted by G-Con Technically maybe its illegal, but if the part you have sampled is very small and then on top of this you add FX etc to it then I don't think anyone would ever know whre you got the sample from and I for one wouldn't bother to get permission

If you listen to White Room - White Room from Andy Moor, you can tell that its just the vocals from BT - Remember chopped up and used in that song.

I must have listened to White Room 10 times before I realized thats where he got the vocals. I probably wouldn't have even recognized them after that, had I not listened to Remember about a million times (PVD mix still one of my favs).

However, it is still technically illegal, so if you want to keep yourself completely covered, then you may want see if you can find a set of royalty-free vocal sample CD's and just chop those vocals up.

Sometimes a bootleg remix like that can be wildly popular as well, although it better be a REALLY good track to achieve that status. You are taking a massive risk, but it may end up working out in the end. I have heard from a LOT of people that Prydz certainly didn't get Steve Winwoods' permission before writing Call On Me. The thing about that is if the track proves to be in demand, then its probably going to be easier to get clearence, albiet more expensive.

It's still very hard to find an original copy of Prodigy - Full Throttle, because they got in trouble for the Star Wars sample, and Scott Hardkiss - Phoenix sampled ELO illegially, so thats even harder to find.

thanks for the replies guys

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Nevermind; I see you already did that.

It's illegal, but if you edit it to the point where it can't be reconized, no one will bother looking into it. Except now this thread will serve as evidence. Well played, sir.

If you do it only for your personal use you can do whatever you feel like.

But it's still illegal!

Okay then, champ.

How would it be illegal for personal use?

What about scratching a sample in a dj set at home, whats the difference? or looping in a cdj1000 for that matter

Re: Re: copyright / sampling issues

quote:

Originally posted by ******** but it really "isn't" real infringement..

Yes it is. Copyright covers BOTH the ideas AND the tangible audio that is the result of those ideas.

quote:

Originally posted by flutlicht junky How would it be illegal for personal use?

It isnt, as long as you dont give or play it to anything other than yourself.

Copyright covers all of the following forms of 'copying':

- To reproduce the work in copies (such as on CDs, tapes, DVDs.)
- To prepare derivative works based upon the work.
- To distribute copies of the work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership, or by rental, lease, or lending.
- To perform the work publicly, such as in a bar or other venue. It also means when a jukebox, radio station, or streaming online internet radio stations or podcasts "perform" your song publicly. This is typically known as a "Performance Right."

Theres two levels to this question really:
Technically: any sampling or creation of derivative works is illegal. I believe it may even be illegal for you to manipulate the sound and listen to it yourself (based on creation of derivative works).

Practically: If you can't tell where it came from OR if it could have some from more than one place its OK. For example, if you write a song using a certain element, then realise its already been done, you can probably get away with it as long as you can find ANOTHER song which shares the element. After all, theres only so many notes to be used.

And anything at all is OK provided you don't try to make profit. You might even be able to push it to sending a track to labels, but make sure you inform them that there's an uncleared sample in there, then you can either talk to them about getting permission (not likely) or try and re create a new sample of similar sound (like in instamatick by Stephen Kroos, which used a pink floyd sample originally.)
The reason most labels will let you get as far as getting it signed without clearance, is that if they want the royalties the track needs release, so its to their economic advantage to allow you to send the track (with sample) to labels, who might sign it and pay the copyright holder royalties to release it.

Of course, I've never really been faced with these problems and don't have much experience, so you should probably talk to a lawyer if your really worried. Copyright is way too complex these days and stifles creativity.

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