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kicks - reverb ?

hi party people

I wanted to know weather you guys apply any reverb to you'll's kicks.
I somehow find my kick very upfront in the mix comapred to the kicks of most trance producers.
I like the kicks of super8/smith and pledger. It has a banging feel but is somehow a little back in the mix.
I tried volume, didn't work.
need help.
Please help.

darkestrance

I usually make my kicks mono and use no or very very little reveerb, I'd rather leave that space for other sounds. I'm a believer that kick and bass should sound clear and dry.

I always leave kicks and the lower part of the bass dry. If I have an upper bass I might put a bit of reverb or delay on it.

yeah, good info.
I always keep my kick mono too.

heres a sample.
I don;t know how most producers keep their kick powerful but no too upfront.

http://download.yousendit.com/102E9A2648C3E9ED

Like most other questions that deal with mixing, there's no simple answer here. But there are a few things that you should always keep in mind:

1. Choosing / making a decent kick sample in the first place.

2. Choosing a kick that "goes" with your bass / bass that "goes" with your kick.

3. EQing the bass and kick so that they "fit" together.

4. Compressing the bass and / or kick to make it all smooth and give your mix a good amount of headroom.

If you do all of those things well, you should be able to get a kick and bass combo that at least sounds decent.

maybe you heard the term 'room percussion' and thats what has you confused but your kicks should stay as dry as possible, usually just a touch of EQ to help it sit right with the bass. room percussion is generally used with top loops and only if your loops need to sit behind something else.

It's all about what kind of music you're making and the effect you want to achieve. Personally I like to use a little bit of reverb on kicks to give them a "live" and very dirty feel, but then, the kind of music I make is best described as listening music. Generally you want to keep it to a minimum. Just use your ears.

You also have to consider - where is this track going to be played? If it's going to be played in big room clubs, you want to cut down on reverb because it will add to the already heavy natural reeverb of the room. So big room tracks = more centered, cleaner mix. Loungey tracks = dirty live feel.

I honestly dont think that there should be a rule of thumb here...why not put some reverb on a kick? There should be room to fit it in. I'll tell you what I'm doing in a track I'm working on right now. I have my main kick which is dry. Then I have another kick which is eq'ed so it is not covering any frequencies that my main kick is taking up...and I added some small gated reverb...it gives the track a nice feel and sounds pretty good. The thing is you have to remember that you dont want it taking up the whole track. i also keep it to a level that you can hardly hear it..but it still makes a difference. There are rules but you can work around them to be creative.

quote:

Originally posted by Limit I honestly dont think that there should be a rule of thumb here...why not put some reverb on a kick? There should be room to fit it in. I'll tell you what I'm doing in a track I'm working on right now. I have my main kick which is dry. Then I have another kick which is eq'ed so it is not covering any frequencies that my main kick is taking up...and I added some small gated reverb...it gives the track a nice feel and sounds pretty good. The thing is you have to remember that you dont want it taking up the whole track. i also keep it to a level that you can hardly hear it..but it still makes a difference. There are rules but you can work around them to be creative.

Well said... The same type of thing applies to my bass sounds. There is a (not so common) effect that I got from a few guys which involves smashing a heap of reverb on your bass line but in a weird kind of way. You can set up the reverb so it gets louder as the bass gets quieter and quieter as the bass gets louder. So when your bassline is at full strength (127 on the midi scale) there is no reverb, but in between bass notes however the reverb is at full strength. If you have a lot of attack/release on the AMP Envelope of the bass, the reverb will fade in and out, in sync with the attack and release (but oppsite). When done right you get a cool gated reverb type of effect and can sound massive.

Obviously when you don't have any bass playing, say in a breakdown in your track, you automate the reverb off otherwise you get the reverb playing infinitely even when the bass isn't being heard. It usually sounds better on electro bass formats with few hits or even your standard kick-bass-kick-bass trance bassline. It can get a bit messy with rolling/complicated basslines.

This is the first time I have really explained it to anyone in writing so it may sound all over the place so I apologise. I am still working on perfecting it but getting some cool results to start with. Heck.... this may be more common than I realise but to me it's still a pretty new trick and I've been obsessed by it ever since I heard it.

i dont think that trick is that common. will be trying it tomorrow.

quote:

Originally posted by piku303 i dont think that trick is that common. will be trying it tomorrow.

I can send a video link of a guy doing it in Fruity Loops if you like?? Will have to fish it out for ya....

quote:

Originally posted by Blahzaay I can send a video link of a guy doing it in Fruity Loops if you like?? Will have to fish it out for ya....

Please do. My bass lines generally sound like a cow farting passed through a equalizer. I am so horrible at bass it's ridiculous. I know a few producers and i am the only who cant seem to make a sub bass. I know that it is basically just a sine or triangle wave but mine always are either inaudible or sound like a metal fart. LOL, anyways if you could get that tutorial for me hopefully it could be a great help and also, anytips on a sub bass other than what i stated, :P.

quote:

Originally posted by Blahzaay I can send a video link of a guy doing it in Fruity Loops if you like?? Will have to fish it out for ya....

You must be talking about that Benny Bennassi style bassline tutorial using the Peak Controller. In that case, the reveerb on the bassline has a big role on how the track sounds.

I think the consensus on kick reverb is pretty uniform: if you want a clear banging track that sounds good on a big range of sound systems, have a dry kick. If you want a more atmospheric track, try adding some reveerb to your kick, just don't overdo it.

anyone have any idea of how to link velocity with wet signal of the reverb in logic??

quote:

Originally posted by pwnage1 Please do. My bass lines generally sound like a cow farting passed through a equalizer. I am so horrible at bass it's ridiculous. I know a few producers and i am the only who cant seem to make a sub bass. I know that it is basically just a sine or triangle wave but mine always are either inaudible or sound like a metal fart. LOL, anyways if you could get that tutorial for me hopefully it could be a great help and also, anytips on a sub bass other than what i stated, :P.

Cool. It was a vid posted online and should still be there, hopefully I can still find it!!! Will check it out when I get home from work :-)

quote:

Originally posted by Blahzaay Well said... The same type of thing applies to my bass sounds. There is a (not so common) effect that I got from a few guys which involves smashing a heap of reverb on your bass line but in a weird kind of way. You can set up the reverb so it gets louder as the bass gets quieter and quieter as the bass gets louder. So when your bassline is at full strength (127 on the midi scale) there is no reverb, but in between bass notes however the reverb is at full strength. If you have a lot of attack/release on the AMP Envelope of the bass, the reverb will fade in and out, in sync with the attack and release (but oppsite). When done right you get a cool gated reverb type of effect and can sound massive.

Yeah man, I'm glad you brought this up. This is something I tried a while back actually. Bass track dry, Duplicate track wet with high pass delay and/or reverb, and the duplicate wet track sidechained with the dry track as signal. Potentially for some REALLY great sound. With a ping-pong type delay on short notes it can sound real sweet. Your bassline maintains definition by sidechaining the effects.

I have a track going now that uses this actually, but I haven't tried it on the kick itself. Worth a shot!

quote:

Originally posted by Zombie0729 maybe you heard the term 'room percussion' and thats what has you confused but your kicks should stay as dry as possible, usually just a touch of EQ to help it sit right with the bass. room percussion is generally used with top loops and only if your loops need to sit behind something else.

What? Born Slippy has a kick drum that is swamped in reverb. Your kicks don't have to be dry at all.

any good compressor setting for kicks.

I normally have 4:1 ratio
quick att, slow rel
still no go, my kicks are just too upfront.
help !

quote:

Originally posted by Derivative What? Born Slippy has a kick drum that is swamped in reverb. Your kicks don't have to be dry at all.

+1, it really depends what type of sound you are trying to achieve.

quote:

Originally posted by darkt help !

Give us a sample of it. What do you want it to sound like?

There is no "good compressor setting for kicks". It totally depends on the sample you're using and what you want to do to it.

There are no magic "always eq leads like this to get them to sound bright and clear, use these eq settings for warmth, use this compression for kicks and basses to get them pumping properly" guidelines.

It's called mixing, engineering. You listen to the sounds, determine what is required and use the tools to do what is required. Some kicks may require a compressor with a 4:1 ratio, some with a 16:1 ratio, some with no compression at all. I know a lot of the Vengeance kicks are used by fantastic producers in fantastic productions straight up, with no extra compression or eq. It all depends on the other sounds happening around the kick. I know when I started out, I got frustrated by a lot of things, and kicks was one of those things. I tried eqing the heck out of them, going crazy with compression and getting frustrated to the max because nothing was working.

If you have good samples then you probably won't need to do much, if anything, to them. There are a number of fantastic sample bundles out there. I mention Vengeance because they're very widely used, with good cause. They're in many fantastic productions and sound great. But there are a number of other quality options.

If you have quality samples, they'll very naturally slot into place without going overboard with processing.

But please, don't look for "secrets" or "tricks" or "magic settings which always work, no matter what the original sound is". Learn your tools inside out, know what you want to do to your sound and use your tools to do it.

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