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Access Virus voice limitations - whats expected?

Guys,

What should I expect if I run out of voices on my Virus TI? I have created a track in Cubase which is so far using 8 out of the 16 channels available for 8 different midi tracks. I have now added a 9th channel and when I play this channel, one of the other channels just stops playing.

I logged a call with Access and they tell me it sounds likely that I have run out of voices. I'm pretty certain this is the case however I just wanted to check if others have experienced this as well? I will just be happy to learn that the issue is not related to bloody Vista or my sound card for once!!

It gets to me that I spend so much on a hardware synth and still have these limitations which I don't have with software!! So now it seems I have to record the channels seperately which is a pain in the arse. I may as well use seperate VSTs speaking of which I am a recent new Albino 3 user. WOW!!!!!

Depends on the amount of voices actually used per channel.

8 channels is already quite alot, you should be happy with that amount and start converting to audio if you need more.

quote:

Originally posted by Subtle Depends on the amount of voices actually used per channel. 8 channels is already quite alot, you should be happy with that amount and start converting to audio if you need more.

Thing is converting to audio isn't practical as I can't use automation and since I haven't finished the track yet, not sure how I may want to automate the patch later in the track.

I hear you though just dissapointed.

cheers

Actually quick question - is there any way of telling how many voices a patch is using? I thought the Virus has over 100 voices?

I don't have a TI (my virus is a KC) - I've seen a number of posts dealing with note dropouts/ TI's polyphony not seeming to be as many voices as advertised. I don't know if there's a way of telling how many voices are being used, it would probably depend on things like the release setting of the amp envelope, if some notes are still dying away then the synth should use new voices rather than cut off the release section of the previous voices. But if you're already using it for 8 separate parts, I'd be quite happy with that.

However, on that issue - using one synth for 8 different parts in the same track is going to make the whole character of the track the character of that synth. Each synth has it's own sound and it sounds fantastic when you have all these different sonic characters combining to create an incredibly beautiful track with many different textures. If you have some vsts, I would definitely recommend using them for some sounds, otherwise the track will be very Virus TI-ey and potentially much more..what's the word..."monotonal?" than it could be.

I try not to use one synth for more than two elements in a song if possible. I love the blending of many synth's characters.

quote:

Originally posted by derail However, on that issue - using one synth for 8 different parts in the same track is going to make the whole character of the track the character of that synth. Each synth has it's own sound and it sounds fantastic when you have all these different sonic characters combining to create an incredibly beautiful track with many different textures. If you have some vsts, I would definitely recommend using them for some sounds, otherwise the track will be very Virus TI-ey and potentially much more..what's the word..."monotonal?" than it could be.

The TI is quite diverse though, more than a lot of synths.

But I still agree - find a sound that you don't necessarily need to use the TI for and use another synth or a VST.

The TI's polyphony is somewhere around 80 voices. Their site says this is under average conditions. Remember that patches with Unison and Delay/Reverb will take up extra voices as well. If you have any combination of these parameters on your patches, then I imagine with 8 parts, you're already over the 80 polyphony limit.

If you use the analog outputs in Virus|Control, you can use any type of External Instruments feature (a la Cubase/Live/Logic) and you should still be able to do automation on it.

The Virus TI will have roughly 80-100 voices assuming you're using only init patches. As soon as you add delay, reverb, additional oscs, hypersaw etc. The polyphony drops. Unison will lower your polyphony dramatically. A three note chord with 5x unison will eat up 15 voices!

I don't understand how you can compare the Virus to a VST. I think it's quite obvious that you won't be able to match the multitimbral aspect of VSTs with a hardware synth.

quote:

Originally posted by No Left Turn If you use the analog outputs in Virus|Control, you can use any type of External Instruments feature (a la Cubase/Live/Logic) and you should still be able to do automation on it.

I think it goes without saying you can't do automation on a bounced synth. Why would using the analog outs be any different?

That's a hell of a lot of virus patches for a single track. Are you seriously not happy enough with any of the sounds to bounce them off?

I'd spend some time finalizing the sounds you're using and then bouncing them off before adding more.

I agree, lock it down to audio, commit to it. Otherwise you're going to spend forever just making one more tweak...one more tweak...

Though, having said that, I also went through that phase a while back, so maybe it's something producers just have to go through for themselves.

In any case, if you lock it down and then don't like the filter automation, just re-record the part. As Sean said, surely there are some parts you are happy with? Lock down all the ones you're happy with currently and focus on the ones that aren't quite there.

Or grab a few more synths, that will give you different textures to work into your tracks and you'll never need to care what a synth's polyphony is...if you're using the TI for only an element or two, they're going to need to be pretty complex to max out the polyphony.

quote:

Originally posted by Eldritch I think it goes without saying you can't do automation on a bounced synth. Why would using the analog outs be any different?

"External Instrument" track features work like this. You have a hardware synth with outputs going into your audio interface. Your sequencer with the External Instrument feature will allow you to use those inputs on your audio interface "like a virtual instrument", meaning you just write/record any midi that you want and you don't have to bounce anything to audio. Thus, giving you the ability to add any automation and not have to commit it right away.

How is the "external instrument" track feature related to the original question? How is the feature going to help increase the Virus TI's polyphony, so Reno doesn't have notes dropping out?

quote:

Originally posted by derail However, on that issue - using one synth for 8 different parts in the same track is going to make the whole character of the track the character of that synth. Each synth has it's own sound and it sounds fantastic when you have all these different sonic characters combining to create an incredibly beautiful track with many different textures. If you have some vsts, I would definitely recommend using them for some sounds, otherwise the track will be very Virus TI-ey and potentially much more..what's the word..."monotonal?" than it could be.

I disagree with this. The TI is capable of a very wide range of sounds. Lately, I've been using the TI for near enough everything apart from drums. On my last track, I got a lot of feedback and not one person thought that the sounds were samey or monotonous (not that the track wasn't without its faults ) and I doubt anyone would have guessed I used one synth for everything.

Thats not to say that the TI can do ANY sound. I'm sure that some FM synths would make a great pairing with the virus and this is probably the next type of synth I'll purchase...

Thanks for the responses. I've taken several suggestions on board. I'd never actually committed anything to audio before the final mix, didn't really see the point but it's helped in this case. The problem was definitely max voices reached.

I don't agree with the suggestion that I should use multiple synths because otherwise the track will lack character. Thats ridiculous considering the diverse range of sound that comes from the synth. Who's going to listen to a track and go "sounds like he used 7 virus patches in this tune".

Not sure I understood about the external outputs etc.

cheers

Just bounce to audio, it's very rare I play with the synth on midi for very long at all. The wav's can still be manipulated with vst fx/filters just not exactly in the same way. You can always go back and re-record.

Making a track entirely on a virus is entirely doable, much more than a lot of synths out there. I have made a couple tracks entirely with the JP as the only synth before... and there is so much more you can do with a Virus

quote:

Originally posted by Luke Terry The wav's can still be manipulated with vst fx/filters just not exactly in the same way

Exactly. I used to use a few arpeggiator sounds through the virus to fill some frequency content in my tracks and then complain that I couldn't put effects on them separately as the Virus has limited audio outputs. But hey it's a friggin arpeggiator and it's barely changing in sound so why not bounce it to audio? As long as I loop it at short enough points so I can copy and paste it at exact points in the song, I have no problems. Then you can got to town with automated filters and whatever other effects on that .wav file. The virus doesn't have a huge amount of effects anyway (that can't be found elsewhere), so when your happy with the notes or midi arrangement throughout the track definitely bounce it to audio.

My Virus KC has a very wide range of sounds. So does my Nord Lead 3, my Supernova 2, Micro Q and so on (my JP8080 not so much, but wide enough that it's still very useful for various applications). Some of my other synths are much more limited (like the TB303... it just sounds like a TB303... which is all I really want out of it...)

I'm not saying synths like the TI don't have a very wide sonic range. But each synth, hardware or software, has a certain character to it. And the more you get to know the character of each of your synths, the more you'll know where to turn for the sound you want. There is no such thing as a "my synth sounds exactly like every other synth, all combined into one" synth. it doesn't exist. The TI does amazing basses, leads, pads, you name it, and it has a wide range of these instruments. I'm not saying the TI only has one bass sound. But if I feel a particular track is crying out for a Nord Lead 3 bass sound, I go to my Nord Lead 3 because the Virus doesn't sound like a Nord Lead 3.

Yes, ultimately it's up to each producer to decide which of their synths to use in each of their productions, for which instruments. I don't consciously decide to not use my Virus for more than a couple of instruments, but for my production style there are other sounds I'm looking for which my other synths can give me.

If the TI is the only synth you have, then it's understandable. My KC was the first hardware synth I picked up and it had a wide range of beautiful sounds, so I used it for pretty much everything, since it sounded so much better than the software instruments I had at the time.

All I'm saying is, if you've only ever used a TI, consider picking up another synth or two if you happen to see them at a great price and you may be pleasantly surprised at how much wider your range of sounds becomes. Each synth, as versatile as it is, as wide a range as it has, has it's own particular character.

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