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Creativity and Evolution

Question: What role does creativity (music, art, literature, etc.) play in the evolution of homo sapiens? Why does creativity even exist? How would creativity aid survival of fittest? What purpose is there for creativity?

This came up while listening to music. I thought, "What is the point in putting sounds together, and why does it sound good to us?"

My friend and I had a discussion about this the other day. We concluded that the arts have contributed far more to the advancement of humanity than science could ever hope to, and I'll stand by that.

A lot of this segues with the topic about the evolution of religious beliefs and the answer here is pretty similar. While it's unlikely that there would be much positive selection pressure for "creativity" itself, there likely would be positive selection pressures for the sort of cognitve functions that give rise to creativity.

There are sexual selection theories for the emergence of creativity (an individual capable of stimulating the senses of a potential mate has an advantage over those that aren't so capable - so human creativity, by this logic, would serve the same function as, say, a bird's mating call) but the problem here is that it doesn't explain how the parts of the brain responsible for creativity emerged in the first place.

I think the answer lies in our proclivity to engage with what anthropologist Pascal Boyer terms "supernormal stimuli". With regards to music specifically, he writes:

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There is no human society without some musical tradition. Although the traditions are very different, some principles can be found everywhere. For instance, musical sounds are always closer to pure sound than noise.... To exaggerate a little, what you get from musical sounds are super-vowels (the pure frequencies as opposed to the mixed ones that define ordinary vowels) and pure consonants (produced by rhythmic instruments). The properties make music an intensified form of sound-experience from which the cortex receives purified and therefore intense doses of what usually activates it.... This phenomenon is not unique to music. Humans also fill their environments with artifacts that overstimulate the visual cortex, for instance by providing pure saturated colour instead of the dull browns and greens of their familiar environments.

(From pages 132-133 of this book, which I think I've referenced on these forums about 100 times. )

So, in other words, we have parts of our brain devoted to the processing and creation of language that are stimulated when we listen to or produce music. There's compelling neurological evidence for this hypothesis (link) although it's not yet conclusive. There is, however, evidence of animals being engaged by supernormal stimuli to the same extent that humans are (see some of the work of Nikolaas Tinbergen) except the difference is that animals don't have the capacity for novelty that humans do - so animals, in a sense, are capable of appreciating "art" (supernormal stimuli) that specifically engages the parts of their brain that deal with sensory perception, though they are incapable of producing such "art". Humans, however, do have the capacity to create novel supernormal stimuli and this is likely a side-effect (or "spandrel") of our capacity for novelty in the expression of language.

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov My friend and I had a discussion about this the other day. We concluded that the arts have contributed far more to the advancement of humanity than science could ever hope to, and I'll stand by that.

Both contribute/have contributed enormously, and will continue to.

Unfortunately we like to make division lines to piece our lives into neat little edible pie charts to make it easier to fathom, but really the line between science and art is blurred only by dictum.

Re: Creativity and Evolution

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Originally posted by Krypton Question: What role does creativity (music, art, literature, etc.) play in the evolution of homo sapiens? Why does creativity even exist? How would creativity aid survival of fittest? What purpose is there for creativity? This came up while listening to music. I thought, "What is the point in putting sounds together, and why does it sound good to us?"

Creativity is a natural side effect of experiencing this infinite universe with our seemingly finite range of sensory impulses.

Survival of the fittest is obsolete, by the way.

I'd give a detailed explanation of my thoughts on the subject but I can't, kinda busy, this is an interesting thread though.

I think that music MIGHT be part of the way people select mates. Either that or our brains just like patterns. I read somewhere that most men learn instruments and stuff to pick up chicks rather than for the music, and that women use it as some type of mood enhancer.

Here's an interesting link on where I read that: http://www.howmusicreallyworks.com/.../1_5.html#1.5.1

As for theatre and it's cousins film etc. I think it creates a pseudo-social environment, and that's why we like it. Same thing with books.

Creativity as a means of courtship makes sense because sex seems to be ingrained in popular culture. Sex sells?

Re: Creativity and Evolution

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Originally posted by Krypton Question: What role does creativity (music, art, literature, etc.) play in the evolution of homo sapiens? Why does creativity even exist? How would creativity aid survival of fittest? What purpose is there for creativity? This came up while listening to music. I thought, "What is the point in putting sounds together, and why does it sound good to us?"

Not many people know that in 1931, Adolf Hitler made a visit to the United States, in the course of which he did some sightseeing, had a brief affair with a lady named Maxine in Keokuk, Iowa, tried peyote (which caused him to hallucinate hordes of frogs and toads wearing little boots and singing the Horst Wessel Lied, infiltrated a munitions plant near Detroit, met secretly with Vice-President Curtis regarding sealskin futures, and invented the electric can opener.

Re: Re: Creativity and Evolution

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Originally posted by DJ Shibby Survival of the fittest is obsolete, by the way.

Incorrect... survival of the fittest remains, the criteria for what is "fittest"; however, is changing.

Heck, if the game 'SPORE' puts music in as a social development, then it MUST be important...or something like that...

Re: Re: Creativity and Evolution

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Originally posted by DJ Shibby Survival of the fittest is obsolete, by the way.

How so?

generate population
crossover and mutate selected individuals
mate population
asses fitness function for said population
discard individuals below arbitrary fitness function value
repeat

Re: Creativity and Evolution

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Originally posted by Krypton This came up while listening to music. I thought, "What is the point in putting sounds together, and why does it sound good to us?"

I think it has something to do with a way of demonstrating the quality of ones senses.

Muscular proof is easy, lift something big. Proving good hearing or sight can be demonstrated through creative means.

There's also some kind of element of skill with comunication that is associated with the arts. Music can be a way to convey things that might be difficult to write or illustrate.

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Originally posted by Zild generate population crossover and mutate selected individuals mate population asses fitness function for said population discard individuals below arbitrary fitness function value repeat

What is fitness?

A function that acts upon the individuals of a population and returns 'fitness' value which indicates an individuals propensity for mating, and number of offspring.

The only reason I ever got interested in music in the first place was that at the age of 13 I thought being a DJ would be cool and would help me get laid.

You can now carry on with the intelligent debate.

Re: Re: Re: Creativity and Evolution

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Originally posted by Krypton How so?

This clip fits in so perfectly with this quote it's almost scary.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Creativity and Evolution

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Originally posted by DJ Neovig This clip fits in so perfectly with this quote it's almost scary.

GOod movie, bad point.

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Originally posted by Zild A function that acts upon the individuals of a population and returns 'fitness' value which indicates an individuals propensity for mating, and number of offspring.

But the "fitness" of a population isn't simply how well or often they mate, it has more to do with how well thier offspring will survive to reproduce. Seeing as the future is unknown we are in no position to evaluate "fitness" of anyone.

What if there is a massive food shortage? Then "fitness" will be small people, or people who eat less.

What if the world runs out of power? Then "fitness" will be similar to traits that predominated in medival times.

What if the world finds a massive source of renewable, cheap, power? Then people who know how to use machines will be the "fitesst".

selecting individuals for mating in any population, be it human or cow or corn, will clearly create vulnerabilities as well as strengths.

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