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Posted by josh4 on Mar-18-2008 17:38:

Obama's Speech on Race

What do you do when it seems like the world is coming at you? Step back, say hold on, and talk to the country like a human. There really isn't an equal to this guy in politics today.



quote:
Barack Obama�s Speech on Race

The following is the text as prepared for delivery of Senator Barack Obama�s speech on race in Philadelphia, as provided by his presidential campaign.

�We the people, in order to form a more perfect union.�

Two hundred and twenty one years ago, in a hall that still stands across the street, a group of men gathered and, with these simple words, launched America�s improbable experiment in democracy. Farmers and scholars; statesmen and patriots who had traveled across an ocean to escape tyranny and persecution finally made real their declaration of independence at a Philadelphia convention that lasted through the spring of 1787.

The document they produced was eventually signed but ultimately unfinished. It was stained by this nation�s original sin of slavery, a question that divided the colonies and brought the convention to a stalemate until the founders chose to allow the slave trade to continue for at least twenty more years, and to leave any final resolution to future generations.

Of course, the answer to the slavery question was already embedded within our Constitution � a Constitution that had at is very core the ideal of equal citizenship under the law; a Constitution that promised its people liberty, and justice, and a union that could be and should be perfected over time.

And yet words on a parchment would not be enough to deliver slaves from bondage, or provide men and women of every color and creed their full rights and obligations as citizens of the United States. What would be needed were Americans in successive generations who were willing to do their part � through protests and struggle, on the streets and in the courts, through a civil war and civil disobedience and always at great risk - to narrow that gap between the promise of our ideals and the reality of their time.

This was one of the tasks we set forth at the beginning of this campaign � to continue the long march of those who came before us, a march for a more just, more equal, more free, more caring and more prosperous America. I chose to run for the presidency at this moment in history because I believe deeply that we cannot solve the challenges of our time unless we solve them together � unless we perfect our union by understanding that we may have different stories, but we hold common hopes; that we may not look the same and we may not have come from the same place, but we all want to move in the same direction � towards a better future for of children and our grandchildren.

This belief comes from my unyielding faith in the decency and generosity of the American people. But it also comes from my own American story.

I am the son of a black man from Kenya and a white woman from Kansas. I was raised with the help of a white grandfather who survived a Depression to serve in Patton�s Army during World War II and a white grandmother who worked on a bomber assembly line at Fort Leavenworth while he was overseas. I�ve gone to some of the best schools in America and lived in one of the world�s poorest nations. I am married to a black American who carries within her the blood of slaves and slaveowners � an inheritance we pass on to our two precious daughters. I have brothers, sisters, nieces, nephews, uncles and cousins, of every race and every hue, scattered across three continents, and for as long as I live, I will never forget that in no other country on Earth is my story even possible.

It�s a story that hasn�t made me the most conventional candidate. But it is a story that has seared into my genetic makeup the idea that this nation is more than the sum of its parts � that out of many, we are truly one.

Throughout the first year of this campaign, against all predictions to the contrary, we saw how hungry the American people were for this message of unity. Despite the temptation to view my candidacy through a purely racial lens, we won commanding victories in states with some of the whitest populations in the country. In South Carolina, where the Confederate Flag still flies, we built a powerful coalition of African Americans and white Americans.

This is not to say that race has not been an issue in the campaign. At various stages in the campaign, some commentators have deemed me either �too black� or �not black enough.� We saw racial tensions bubble to the surface during the week before the South Carolina primary. The press has scoured every exit poll for the latest evidence of racial polarization, not just in terms of white and black, but black and brown as well.

And yet, it has only been in the last couple of weeks that the discussion of race in this campaign has taken a particularly divisive turn.

On one end of the spectrum, we�ve heard the implication that my candidacy is somehow an exercise in affirmative action; that it�s based solely on the desire of wide-eyed liberals to purchase racial reconciliation on the cheap. On the other end, we�ve heard my former pastor, Reverend Jeremiah Wright, use incendiary language to express views that have the potential not only to widen the racial divide, but views that denigrate both the greatness and the goodness of our nation; that rightly offend white and black alike.

I have already condemned, in unequivocal terms, the statements of Reverend Wright that have caused such controversy. For some, nagging questions remain. Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes. Did I strongly disagree with many of his political views? Absolutely � just as I�m sure many of you have heard remarks from your pastors, priests, or rabbis with which you strongly disagreed.

But the remarks that have caused this recent firestorm weren�t simply controversial. They weren�t simply a religious leader�s effort to speak out against perceived injustice. Instead, they expressed a profoundly distorted view of this country � a view that sees white racism as endemic, and that elevates what is wrong with America above all that we know is right with America; a view that sees the conflicts in the Middle East as rooted primarily in the actions of stalwart allies like Israel, instead of emanating from the perverse and hateful ideologies of radical Islam.

As such, Reverend Wright�s comments were not only wrong but divisive, divisive at a time when we need unity; racially charged at a time when we need to come together to solve a set of monumental problems � two wars, a terrorist threat, a falling economy, a chronic health care crisis and potentially devastating climate change; problems that are neither black or white or Latino or Asian, but rather problems that confront us all.

Given my background, my politics, and my professed values and ideals, there will no doubt be those for whom my statements of condemnation are not enough. Why associate myself with Reverend Wright in the first place, they may ask? Why not join another church? And I confess that if all that I knew of Reverend Wright were the snippets of those sermons that have run in an endless loop on the television and You Tube, or if Trinity United Church of Christ conformed to the caricatures being peddled by some commentators, there is no doubt that I would react in much the same way

But the truth is, that isn�t all that I know of the man. The man I met more than twenty years ago is a man who helped introduce me to my Christian faith, a man who spoke to me about our obligations to love one another; to care for the sick and lift up the poor. He is a man who served his country as a U.S. Marine; who has studied and lectured at some of the finest universities and seminaries in the country, and who for over thirty years led a church that serves the community by doing God�s work here on Earth � by housing the homeless, ministering to the needy, providing day care services and scholarships and prison ministries, and reaching out to those suffering from HIV/AIDS.

In my first book, Dreams From My Father, I described the experience of my first service at Trinity:

�People began to shout, to rise from their seats and clap and cry out, a forceful wind carrying the reverend�s voice up into the rafters�.And in that single note � hope! � I heard something else; at the foot of that cross, inside the thousands of churches across the city, I imagined the stories of ordinary black people merging with the stories of David and Goliath, Moses and Pharaoh, the Christians in the lion�s den, Ezekiel�s field of dry bones. Those stories � of survival, and freedom, and hope � became our story, my story; the blood that had spilled was our blood, the tears our tears; until this black church, on this bright day, seemed once more a vessel carrying the story of a people into future generations and into a larger world. Our trials and triumphs became at once unique and universal, black and more than black; in chronicling our journey, the stories and songs gave us a means to reclaim memories that we didn�t need to feel shame about�memories that all people might study and cherish � and with which we could start to rebuild.�

That has been my experience at Trinity. Like other predominantly black churches across the country, Trinity embodies the black community in its entirety � the doctor and the welfare mom, the model student and the former gang-banger. Like other black churches, Trinity�s services are full of raucous laughter and sometimes bawdy humor. They are full of dancing, clapping, screaming and shouting that may seem jarring to the untrained ear. The church contains in full the kindness and cruelty, the fierce intelligence and the shocking ignorance, the struggles and successes, the love and yes, the bitterness and bias that make up the black experience in America.

And this helps explain, perhaps, my relationship with Reverend Wright. As imperfect as he may be, he has been like family to me. He strengthened my faith, officiated my wedding, and baptized my children. Not once in my conversations with him have I heard him talk about any ethnic group in derogatory terms, or treat whites with whom he interacted with anything but courtesy and respect. He contains within him the contradictions � the good and the bad � of the community that he has served diligently for so many years.

I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community. I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother � a woman who helped raise me, a woman who sacrificed again and again for me, a woman who loves me as much as she loves anything in this world, but a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe.

These people are a part of me. And they are a part of America, this country that I love.

Some will see this as an attempt to justify or excuse comments that are simply inexcusable. I can assure you it is not. I suppose the politically safe thing would be to move on from this episode and just hope that it fades into the woodwork. We can dismiss Reverend Wright as a crank or a demagogue, just as some have dismissed Geraldine Ferraro, in the aftermath of her recent statements, as harboring some deep-seated racial bias.

But race is an issue that I believe this nation cannot afford to ignore right now. We would be making the same mistake that Reverend Wright made in his offending sermons about America � to simplify and stereotype and amplify the negative to the point that it distorts reality.

The fact is that the comments that have been made and the issues that have surfaced over the last few weeks reflect the complexities of race in this country that we�ve never really worked through � a part of our union that we have yet to perfect. And if we walk away now, if we simply retreat into our respective corners, we will never be able to come together and solve challenges like health care, or education, or the need to find good jobs for every American.

Understanding this reality requires a reminder of how we arrived at this point. As William Faulkner once wrote, �The past isn�t dead and buried. In fact, it isn�t even past.� We do not need to recite here the history of racial injustice in this country. But we do need to remind ourselves that so many of the disparities that exist in the African-American community today can be directly traced to inequalities passed on from an earlier generation that suffered under the brutal legacy of slavery and Jim Crow.

Segregated schools were, and are, inferior schools; we still haven�t fixed them, fifty years after Brown v. Board of Education, and the inferior education they provided, then and now, helps explain the pervasive achievement gap between today�s black and white students.

Legalized discrimination - where blacks were prevented, often through violence, from owning property, or loans were not granted to African-American business owners, or black homeowners could not access FHA mortgages, or blacks were excluded from unions, or the police force, or fire departments � meant that black families could not amass any meaningful wealth to bequeath to future generations. That history helps explain the wealth and income gap between black and white, and the concentrated pockets of poverty that persists in so many of today�s urban and rural communities.

A lack of economic opportunity among black men, and the shame and frustration that came from not being able to provide for one�s family, contributed to the erosion of black families � a problem that welfare policies for many years may have worsened. And the lack of basic services in so many urban black neighborhoods � parks for kids to play in, police walking the beat, regular garbage pick-up and building code enforcement � all helped create a cycle of violence, blight and neglect that continue to haunt us.

This is the reality in which Reverend Wright and other African-Americans of his generation grew up. They came of age in the late fifties and early sixties, a time when segregation was still the law of the land and opportunity was systematically constricted. What�s remarkable is not how many failed in the face of discrimination, but rather how many men and women overcame the odds; how many were able to make a way out of no way for those like me who would come after them.

But for all those who scratched and clawed their way to get a piece of the American Dream, there were many who didn�t make it � those who were ultimately defeated, in one way or another, by discrimination. That legacy of defeat was passed on to future generations � those young men and increasingly young women who we see standing on street corners or languishing in our prisons, without hope or prospects for the future. Even for those blacks who did make it, questions of race, and racism, continue to define their worldview in fundamental ways. For the men and women of Reverend Wright�s generation, the memories of humiliation and doubt and fear have not gone away; nor has the anger and the bitterness of those years. That anger may not get expressed in public, in front of white co-workers or white friends. But it does find voice in the barbershop or around the kitchen table. At times, that anger is exploited by politicians, to gin up votes along racial lines, or to make up for a politician�s own failings.

And occasionally it finds voice in the church on Sunday morning, in the pulpit and in the pews. The fact that so many people are surprised to hear that anger in some of Reverend Wright�s sermons simply reminds us of the old truism that the most segregated hour in American life occurs on Sunday morning. That anger is not always productive; indeed, all too often it distracts attention from solving real problems; it keeps us from squarely facing our own complicity in our condition, and prevents the African-American community from forging the alliances it needs to bring about real change. But the anger is real; it is powerful; and to simply wish it away, to condemn it without understanding its roots, only serves to widen the chasm of misunderstanding that exists between the races.

In fact, a similar anger exists within segments of the white community. Most working- and middle-class white Americans don�t feel that they have been particularly privileged by their race. Their experience is the immigrant experience � as far as they�re concerned, no one�s handed them anything, they�ve built it from scratch. They�ve worked hard all their lives, many times only to see their jobs shipped overseas or their pension dumped after a lifetime of labor. They are anxious about their futures, and feel their dreams slipping away; in an era of stagnant wages and global competition, opportunity comes to be seen as a zero sum game, in which your dreams come at my expense. So when they are told to bus their children to a school across town; when they hear that an African American is getting an advantage in landing a good job or a spot in a good college because of an injustice that they themselves never committed; when they�re told that their fears about crime in urban neighborhoods are somehow prejudiced, resentment builds over time.

Like the anger within the black community, these resentments aren�t always expressed in polite company. But they have helped shape the political landscape for at least a generation. Anger over welfare and affirmative action helped forge the Reagan Coalition. Politicians routinely exploited fears of crime for their own electoral ends. Talk show hosts and conservative commentators built entire careers unmasking bogus claims of racism while dismissing legitimate discussions of racial injustice and inequality as mere political correctness or reverse racism.

Just as black anger often proved counterproductive, so have these white resentments distracted attention from the real culprits of the middle class squeeze � a corporate culture rife with inside dealing, questionable accounting practices, and short-term greed; a Washington dominated by lobbyists and special interests; economic policies that favor the few over the many. And yet, to wish away the resentments of white Americans, to label them as misguided or even racist, without recognizing they are grounded in legitimate concerns � this too widens the racial divide, and blocks the path to understanding.

This is where we are right now. It�s a racial stalemate we�ve been stuck in for years. Contrary to the claims of some of my critics, black and white, I have never been so na�ve as to believe that we can get beyond our racial divisions in a single election cycle, or with a single candidacy � particularly a candidacy as imperfect as my own.

But I have asserted a firm conviction � a conviction rooted in my faith in God and my faith in the American people � that working together we can move beyond some of our old racial wounds, and that in fact we have no choice is we are to continue on the path of a more perfect union.

For the African-American community, that path means embracing the burdens of our past without becoming victims of our past. It means continuing to insist on a full measure of justice in every aspect of American life. But it also means binding our particular grievances � for better health care, and better schools, and better jobs - to the larger aspirations of all Americans -- the white woman struggling to break the glass ceiling, the white man who's been laid off, the immigrant trying to feed his family. And it means taking full responsibility for own lives � by demanding more from our fathers, and spending more time with our children, and reading to them, and teaching them that while they may face challenges and discrimination in their own lives, they must never succumb to despair or cynicism; they must always believe that they can write their own destiny.

Ironically, this quintessentially American � and yes, conservative � notion of self-help found frequent expression in Reverend Wright�s sermons. But what my former pastor too often failed to understand is that embarking on a program of self-help also requires a belief that society can change.

The profound mistake of Reverend Wright�s sermons is not that he spoke about racism in our society. It�s that he spoke as if our society was static; as if no progress has been made; as if this country � a country that has made it possible for one of his own members to run for the highest office in the land and build a coalition of white and black; Latino and Asian, rich and poor, young and old -- is still irrevocably bound to a tragic past. But what we know -- what we have seen � is that America can change. That is true genius of this nation. What we have already achieved gives us hope � the audacity to hope � for what we can and must achieve tomorrow.

In the white community, the path to a more perfect union means acknowledging that what ails the African-American community does not just exist in the minds of black people; that the legacy of discrimination - and current incidents of discrimination, while less overt than in the past - are real and must be addressed. Not just with words, but with deeds � by investing in our schools and our communities; by enforcing our civil rights laws and ensuring fairness in our criminal justice system; by providing this generation with ladders of opportunity that were unavailable for previous generations. It requires all Americans to realize that your dreams do not have to come at the expense of my dreams; that investing in the health, welfare, and education of black and brown and white children will ultimately help all of America prosper.

In the end, then, what is called for is nothing more, and nothing less, than what all the world�s great religions demand � that we do unto others as we would have them do unto us. Let us be our brother�s keeper, Scripture tells us. Let us be our sister�s keeper. Let us find that common stake we all have in one another, and let our politics reflect that spirit as well.

For we have a choice in this country. We can accept a politics that breeds division, and conflict, and cynicism. We can tackle race only as spectacle � as we did in the OJ trial � or in the wake of tragedy, as we did in the aftermath of Katrina - or as fodder for the nightly news. We can play Reverend Wright�s sermons on every channel, every day and talk about them from now until the election, and make the only question in this campaign whether or not the American people think that I somehow believe or sympathize with his most offensive words. We can pounce on some gaffe by a Hillary supporter as evidence that she�s playing the race card, or we can speculate on whether white men will all flock to John McCain in the general election regardless of his policies.

We can do that.

But if we do, I can tell you that in the next election, we�ll be talking about some other distraction. And then another one. And then another one. And nothing will change.

That is one option. Or, at this moment, in this election, we can come together and say, �Not this time.� This time we want to talk about the crumbling schools that are stealing the future of black children and white children and Asian children and Hispanic children and Native American children. This time we want to reject the cynicism that tells us that these kids can�t learn; that those kids who don�t look like us are somebody else�s problem. The children of America are not those kids, they are our kids, and we will not let them fall behind in a 21st century economy. Not this time.

This time we want to talk about how the lines in the Emergency Room are filled with whites and blacks and Hispanics who do not have health care; who don�t have the power on their own to overcome the special interests in Washington, but who can take them on if we do it together.

This time we want to talk about the shuttered mills that once provided a decent life for men and women of every race, and the homes for sale that once belonged to Americans from every religion, every region, every walk of life. This time we want to talk about the fact that the real problem is not that someone who doesn�t look like you might take your job; it�s that the corporation you work for will ship it overseas for nothing more than a profit.

This time we want to talk about the men and women of every color and creed who serve together, and fight together, and bleed together under the same proud flag. We want to talk about how to bring them home from a war that never should�ve been authorized and never should�ve been waged, and we want to talk about how we�ll show our patriotism by caring for them, and their families, and giving them the benefits they have earned.

I would not be running for President if I didn�t believe with all my heart that this is what the vast majority of Americans want for this country. This union may never be perfect, but generation after generation has shown that it can always be perfected. And today, whenever I find myself feeling doubtful or cynical about this possibility, what gives me the most hope is the next generation � the young people whose attitudes and beliefs and openness to change have already made history in this election.

There is one story in particularly that I�d like to leave you with today � a story I told when I had the great honor of speaking on Dr. King�s birthday at his home church, Ebenezer Baptist, in Atlanta.

There is a young, twenty-three year old white woman named Ashley Baia who organized for our campaign in Florence, South Carolina. She had been working to organize a mostly African-American community since the beginning of this campaign, and one day she was at a roundtable discussion where everyone went around telling their story and why they were there.

And Ashley said that when she was nine years old, her mother got cancer. And because she had to miss days of work, she was let go and lost her health care. They had to file for bankruptcy, and that�s when Ashley decided that she had to do something to help her mom.

She knew that food was one of their most expensive costs, and so Ashley convinced her mother that what she really liked and really wanted to eat more than anything else was mustard and relish sandwiches. Because that was the cheapest way to eat.

She did this for a year until her mom got better, and she told everyone at the roundtable that the reason she joined our campaign was so that she could help the millions of other children in the country who want and need to help their parents too.

Now Ashley might have made a different choice. Perhaps somebody told her along the way that the source of her mother�s problems were blacks who were on welfare and too lazy to work, or Hispanics who were coming into the country illegally. But she didn�t. She sought out allies in her fight against injustice.

Anyway, Ashley finishes her story and then goes around the room and asks everyone else why they�re supporting the campaign. They all have different stories and reasons. Many bring up a specific issue. And finally they come to this elderly black man who�s been sitting there quietly the entire time. And Ashley asks him why he�s there. And he does not bring up a specific issue. He does not say health care or the economy. He does not say education or the war. He does not say that he was there because of Barack Obama. He simply says to everyone in the room, �I am here because of Ashley.�

�I�m here because of Ashley.� By itself, that single moment of recognition between that young white girl and that old black man is not enough. It is not enough to give health care to the sick, or jobs to the jobless, or education to our children.

But it is where we start. It is where our union grows stronger. And as so many generations have come to realize over the course of the two-hundred and twenty one years since a band of patriots signed that document in Philadelphia, that is where the perfection begins.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/18/u...agewanted=print


Posted by MisterOpus1 on Mar-18-2008 23:59:

Pretty damn impressive.


Posted by Magnetonium on Mar-19-2008 01:26:



Those are not his words, but words prepared by people working for big bucks in his campaign preparing all these pretty speeches. Only G-d knows what he actually believes and thinks. I wouldn't buy a single word he says until he puts his words into actions.


Posted by MisterOpus1 on Mar-19-2008 01:55:

quote:
Originally posted by Magnetonium


Those are not his words, but words prepared by people working for big bucks in his campaign preparing all these pretty speeches. Only G-d knows what he actually believes and thinks. I wouldn't buy a single word he says until he puts his words into actions.


Actually, a writer/blogger from a pretty prominent politics mag here in the U.S. says he wrote the whole thing himself:

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com...iter_of_one.php

I agree that we should read more from actions and not words, however if these are his own words I believe we can view a bit more into this candidate than some of the other candidates and their respective political rhetoric.

Say what you will about politicians in general, or in specifically - I'd more than likely agree with you on most points. However it's hard to see any other candidate not only speak so eloquently as he did today, but to speak pretty candidly towards issues that have been directed (I'd say ridiculously blown up) by our media.


Posted by guerra-monstru on Mar-19-2008 02:13:

quote:
Originally posted by MisterOpus1
Actually, a writer/blogger from a pretty prominent politics mag here in the U.S. says he wrote the whole thing himself:

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com...iter_of_one.php

I agree that we should read more from actions and not words, however if these are his own words I believe we can view a bit more into this candidate than some of the other candidates and their respective political rhetoric.

Say what you will about politicians in general, or in specifically - I'd more than likely agree with you on most points. However it's hard to see any other candidate not only speak so eloquently as he did today, but to speak pretty candidly towards issues that have been directed (I'd say ridiculously blown up) by our media.

It's not his word's no politician writes their own speeches anymore. It is the truth don't be fooled.


Posted by DJ Shibby on Mar-19-2008 03:51:

Felt like it was written by someone else. Who knows?

I still respect the bottomline. I still recognize that he's a politician.


Posted by Lebezniatnikov on Mar-19-2008 05:05:

quote:
Originally posted by Magnetonium


Those are not his words, but words prepared by people working for big bucks in his campaign preparing all these pretty speeches. Only G-d knows what he actually believes and thinks. I wouldn't buy a single word he says until he puts his words into actions.



Actually, it's been pretty well-documented that Obama writes the majority of his stump speeches - something that has been noted as a clear distinction between his campaign and Clinton's.


Posted by Q5echo on Mar-19-2008 08:45:

take it from another politician...a very smart one.


Link: sevenload.com

"Repudiating the words after the fact is a study of political convenience by a politician desperately trying to get elected and hoping you'll forget that for 20 years he didn't do it"


Posted by DJ Shibby on Mar-19-2008 09:40:

quote:
Originally posted by Q5echo
take it from another politician...a very smart one.

lol fox news

"Repudiating the words after the fact is a study of political convenience by a politician desperately trying to get elected and hoping you'll forget that for 20 years he didn't do it"


You apparently didn't watch the speech, or understand what the man was trying to say...

Are we supposed to reward you for this with attention?

You're striking out here with your inability to make rational decisions, especially after the WMD fiasco, so don't be surprised as people take you less and less seriously as you continue to cling to your ideological fundamentalisms.


Posted by Q5echo on Mar-19-2008 10:03:

quote:
Originally posted by DJ Shibby
You apparently didn't watch the speech, or understand what the man was trying to say...


what? am i supposed to get caught up in his "eloquence" and worry about whether people get the impression that he wrote it opposed to someone else? seems to be the only benchmark for considering the next leader of the free world around here. no, fuck that.

unlike you, i'm not too worried about the delivery or technique as much as i am what he's saying and why he's saying it.

do you understand what he was trying to say?

quote:
]Are we supposed to reward you for this with attention?

You're striking out here with your inability to make rational decisions, especially after the WMD fiasco, so don't be surprised as people take you less and less seriously as you continue to cling to your ideological fundamentalisms.


awww did Newt hurt your delicate sensibilities....poor thing.

forget about me dude. who cares what i say. you attacking me about this says more about you anyway you doped up walking brainfart.

what about what Newt said?

attack that if youre so offended somebody said something uncomfortable about your boy...or don't and go hit the f**kin pipe and melt into a couch somewhere.

...but no. all youre capable of is attacking FoxNews. ooooohhhh big man
as if you weren't already enough of a cliche'


Posted by Q5echo on Mar-19-2008 11:03:

Obama is toast >LINK<


Posted by shaolin_Z on Mar-19-2008 11:17:

I see his rhetoric is being lapped up, how predictable, not to mention the content is rather... shallow and empty, all things considered.


Posted by shaolin_Z on Mar-19-2008 11:39:

quote:
Originally posted by MisterOpus1
but to speak pretty candidly towards issues that have been directed (I'd say ridiculously blown up) by our media.

I agree on that point, especially by FOX... although I'd categorize FOX as being almost pure propaganda, nothing less.


Posted by shaolin_Z on Mar-19-2008 11:49:

quote:
Originally posted by Q5echo
awww did Newt hurt your delicate sensibilities....poor thing.

I don't think so, since the attack was rather baseless to begin with. I don't even like or support Obama for crying out loud, but the ad hominem directed at him is quite sad to say the least. Surely you can appreciate the irony of playing the reverse race card where it doesn't even apply.


Posted by Q5echo on Mar-19-2008 12:10:

quote:
Originally posted by shaolin_Z
Surely you can appreciate the irony of playing the reverse race card where it doesn't even apply.


surely, if you can show me how Gingrich "played the reverse race card"

failing that, i hardly see your point.

Gingrich demostrated a obvious weakness in Obama's position being a President. a flaw in Obama's logic that Obama wants you to overlook. not a black weakness or a polka-dot weakness...a weakness.

not once did Gingrich mention race in ANY context. if it weren't for the fact that everybody knows Obama is black and him using certain pronouns describing Obama , Gingrich could have been talking about an Asian woman FFS. so forgive me if i accuse you of pulling a "race" card.


Posted by shaolin_Z on Mar-19-2008 12:35:

quote:
Originally posted by Q5echo
surely, if you can show me how Gingrich "played the reverse race card"

failing that, i hardly see your point.

Gingrich demostrated a obvious weakness in Obama's position being a President. a flaw in Obama's logic that Obama wants you to overlook. not a black weakness or a polka-dot weakness...a weakness.

not once did Gingrich mention race in ANY context. if it weren't for the fact that everybody knows Obama is black and him using certain pronouns describing Obama , Gingrich could have been talking about an Asian woman FFS. so forgive me if i accuse you of pulling a "race" card.

Gee, I don't know... how about asserting Obama's comments were nothing more than mere politics, as part of his insinuation? That's implicity playing the race card, which isn't hard to miss.


Posted by LazFX on Mar-19-2008 18:41:

quote:
Originally posted by Q5echo
surely, if you can show me how Gingrich "played the reverse race card"

failing that, i hardly see your point.

Gingrich demostrated a obvious weakness in Obama's position being a President. a flaw in Obama's logic that Obama wants you to overlook. not a black weakness or a polka-dot weakness...a weakness.

not once did Gingrich mention race in ANY context. if it weren't for the fact that everybody knows Obama is black and him using certain pronouns describing Obama , Gingrich could have been talking about an Asian woman FFS. so forgive me if i accuse you of pulling a "race" card.

ha ha


Posted by Fir3start3r on Mar-20-2008 02:02:

Just my 2 cents but I've watched one other speech by him and personally, even if that wasn't written by him (which I don't believe it is), he pulls it off amazingly.

Something I found on DIGG:

quote:
He was the chief editor of the Harvard Law Review. Trust me, you don't get to that position without knowing how to write and write well. Remember, he was a professor and an academic before getting into politics. He wrote his own book, the Iraq speech, and the victory/stump speech he's been walking around with. He has editors and people who proofread, but he is a writer.


I would tend to believe the DIGGers because for someone not to have written that themselves, and be that natural in their delivery (in all their speeches) would be an extreme accomplishment IMHO.

Another interesting comment:

quote:

I am not an Obama supporter, I plan on voting for John McCain, however I am an open minded individual who can appreciate one of the most prolific speakers of my generation ( I'm currently 25 ). Barack Obama is just that.

Barack Obama's speech was intelligent, inspiring, and could very easily serve as the foundation for a serious dialogue about race relations in America. This was a speech that will be replayed and quoted in Political Science and Sociology classes for years to come, and rightfully so.

While I still do not agree with his feelings on many of the major issues we're facing as a country this election, I can appreciate a historic moment when I see it, and that's exactly what this was.

Kudos to Barack.


Posted by MisterOpus1 on Mar-20-2008 03:47:

quote:
Originally posted by Q5echo
Obama is toast >LINK<


Okay, that was funny.


Posted by MisterOpus1 on Mar-20-2008 05:10:

quote:
Originally posted by Q5echo
surely, if you can show me how Gingrich "played the reverse race card"

failing that, i hardly see your point.


Then perhaps I can make one, or at least try.

quote:
Gingrich demostrated a obvious weakness in Obama's position being a President. a flaw in Obama's logic that Obama wants you to overlook. not a black weakness or a polka-dot weakness...a weakness.

not once did Gingrich mention race in ANY context. if it weren't for the fact that everybody knows Obama is black and him using certain pronouns describing Obama , Gingrich could have been talking about an Asian woman FFS. so forgive me if i accuse you of pulling a "race" card.



Let's see if I can sum up our dear honest Newt's argument (coming from such a wonderful honest fellow like Newt, that's almost funny on the face itself, but I digress):

The Reverend was saying things that were so dishonest, so Anti-American, so wrong. Obama should have flat out repudiated the Reverend. Furthermore, at the very least Obama should have had a conversation with him at some point to tell him how wrong he is. And if Obama can't tell the Reverend these things, if he can't communicate with him about why he thinks he's wrong, how can he lead our country? How can he tell other countries how wrong they may be with their policies and actions, especially if they're against democracy or in the best interests of the United States?

I don't want to put words in Newt's mouth, so if these sound unfair or incorrect than I'll accept it, but this is at least what I heard, more or less. Let me try to to get to these points.

In regards to whether or not the Reverend was wrong in what he said, I think that is certainly the perogative of Obama to object and state unequivocally that Wright was wrong in what he said. Now as to whether or not that's true with what Wright had said, I think honestly that's a very worthy point of contention to make and discuss. Now keep in mind, what I said is not HOW Wright said it - to that end I think there's no question that was wrong.

But as to whether or not our country is truly treating African-Americans fairly, I really don't want to be completely closed off to the idea that we may not actually the wonderful, nondiscriminatory country that we purport. It's a conversation that I think is worth having, and Obama really emphasized this point in his speech. As a male Caucasian, I can only look through my own eyes and state as objectively as possible what I see. But I have to accept the fact that even though I try hard to be objective at times, it simply is not the same unless I truly walk into the shoes of someone else whom I'm having a discussion with. I am not African-American. I do not know what it is like to be African-American. Of course I have friends throughout the years that are African-American, but that certainly does not give me a fucking honorary badge of any sort when discussing issues pertaining to them such as race and discrimination.

My point is this: whether or not Wright was wrong in saying what he said does not dismiss the fact that he said it and felt it. It also does not dismiss the fact that there very well may be many other African Americans who feel the exact same way as he does. In fact his remarks are not the first time I've heard of such sentiments from the African American community. Can I honestly just simply be dismissive of what he said and brand him as unAmerican, unPatriotic, and blasphemous for saying such things about my country and how I think things are here? Or should I listen and ponder that there is an underlying reason as to why I keep hearing this from folks in the African American community?

Even if I believe they are wrong in the end and disagree with what they said, I think the conversation is worth having to at least hear what they have to say. Because if there's a chance of some validity to their arguments, then the opportunity exists to promote some change for the better, and to me that's a conversation worth having.

Point 2, that Obama should have repudiated Wright, well, I guess this might be a valid point if we, as a Christian nation and wonderful Christians that we all are, repudiate not just the sin but the sinner at all turns. Afterall, this is indeed what our beloved President had done with the Reverend Pat Roberts on matters about whether or not to invade Iraq:

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLI...iraq/index.html

Nevermind that Roberts is one of the most inflammatory shithead pseudo-Christians this planet has ever seen, someone who believes that God allowed 9/11 to occur as punishment for the evils of this country.

Or how about the Reverend John Hagee, a personal endorser or the GOP candidate John McCain, who embraced with full vigor this crazy SOB's endorsement who calls the Catholic Church "The Great Whore" and "False Cult System":



And on to point 3, that Obama should have repudiated Wright. Just like, of course, McCain who repudiated the nutbag Hagee, or Roberts who whispers in the ear of our President. Or how about the rotten turd, Jerry Falwell, who said 9/11 was caused as a result of all the homosexuality in our country, who just so happened to have our President's ear on Supreme Court nominees:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/13/p...gin&oref=slogin

And that Bush kept in touch with Falwell, up to a month just prior to his death:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalr...ll_funeral.html

And had such wonderful things to say about Falwell on his death:

http://www.reuters.com/article/news...542579420070515

Surely Bush repudiated Falwell, just as Obama should be repudiating the man Wright, right?

Or how about a sitting GOP Senator, our dearly beloved Senator Inhofe who said this about 9/11:

quote:
"the spiritual door was opened for an attack against the United States of America"


All because America pressured Israel to give away parts of the West bank.

Surely Bush and McCain have repudiated him, just as Obama should be repudiating the man, Reverend Wright, and not what he said, right?

And as for Newt's last point, how can Obama be a leader if he can't somehow call out someone doing something wrong in the world? Gosh, I almost blinked at that one. Is someone like Newt going to try to convince me that his fearless leader in George Bush has been nothing but exemplary in this regard? That his fearless leader has been a really fucking shiny example of calling out those who do wrong in the world?

Does this really need remarking?

This is no more a stain on Obama than the Wingnutters trump up as their leader or potential leader. But of course you hear so very little in comparison by our media. Such issues like the glamorous endorsement of Hagee to McCain or the whispering in the ear of Bush by the nutbags Falwell or Robertson receive narry a mention when we've got someone like Obama to Swiftboat out there.

And this is exactly what Obama was talking about in his speech. We can have inflammatory discussions. We can have incendiary remarks and smears just like we had 4 years ago. We can be left up to the world of Drudge via insinuation, guilt by association, and nonsequitur arguments that lead us nowhere when discussing what we OUGHT to be doing now, or we can decide to fall back on the world of the National Enquirer and throw mud at each other, hoping to Gawd that something sticks and then running with it no matter the consequences.

Unfortunately we all know it will be the latter and not the former, primarily because it's not just the media's fault, but our fault as well. We've been spoonfed heresay and juicy gossip not just by People Magazine and TMZ, but by our own fucking media. It's where they live and have felt quite comfortable now. The intellectual capacity has been wholly absent in any worthy news story or news cycle. I cannot begin to tell you how brave I think Obama is for trying to give us this opportunity to rise above the muck and have worthy conversations about things like race in our country. It's honestly what made his speech so compelling - not just for what he tackled but what he's given us as an opportunity to tackle and discuss.

The problem, of course, is that our media, the Right Wing Noise Machine, or so many in the public would be willing to have that conversation, which might actually do something totally alien to everyone - bring us a bit closer together. God knows we could sure use that opportunity. God knows we've been too far apart for too long. I know it's naive, and I know there will forever be major differences between the Right and the Left, but the opportunity exists out there to be able to bring us together just that much closer if we allow ourselves to do so.

Unfortunately and quite sadly, I just don't think that will happen.


Posted by DJ Shibby on Mar-21-2008 00:22:

quote:
Originally posted by Q5echo
what? am i supposed to get caught up in his "eloquence" and worry about whether people get the impression that he wrote it opposed to someone else? seems to be the only benchmark for considering the next leader of the free world around here. no, fuck that.

unlike you, i'm not too worried about the delivery or technique as much as i am what he's saying and why he's saying it.

do you understand what he was trying to say?



awww did Newt hurt your delicate sensibilities....poor thing.

forget about me dude. who cares what i say. you attacking me about this says more about you anyway you doped up walking brainfart.

what about what Newt said?

attack that if youre so offended somebody said something uncomfortable about your boy...or don't and go hit the f**kin pipe and melt into a couch somewhere.

...but no. all youre capable of is attacking FoxNews. ooooohhhh big man
as if you weren't already enough of a cliche'


Apparently you didn't even read my original response on the topic before making this reply.

Thanks for the ad hominems though.


Posted by jerZ07002 on Mar-21-2008 00:41:

quote:
Originally posted by Fir3start3r
Just my 2 cents but I've watched one other speech by him and personally, even if that wasn't written by him (which I don't believe it is), he pulls it off amazingly.

Something I found on DIGG:



I would tend to believe the DIGGers because for someone not to have written that themselves, and be that natural in their delivery (in all their speeches) would be an extreme accomplishment IMHO.

Another interesting comment:


you are absolutely correct, he has to be an amazing writer being the chief editor of the harvard law review. i don't even like obama because i think he's blowing smoke up america's ass, but he's an eloquent speaker and brilliantly intelligent.


Posted by Q5echo on Mar-21-2008 02:12:

quote:
Originally posted by shaolin_Z
how about asserting Obama's comments were nothing more than mere politics?


is Obama not a politician?

aren't we talking about a black man?

aren't we talking about a black politician wanting to seperate himself politically from someone who was close to him?

regardless, none of that has anything to do with the validity of Gingrich's argument and if thats all you can come up with then...i don't even have to say, really.



quote:
That's implicity playing the race card


wrong. no one has to imply Barak Obama is black, it's understood.

if you have to resort to accusing someone of "implying" that the person they were talking about was black then you've kinda missed the point. it's called the race card.

let it go man.


Posted by Q5echo on Mar-21-2008 02:23:

quote:
Originally posted by DJ Shibby
Apparently you didn't even read my original response on the topic before making this reply.


i did. but i didn't quote that post did i?

no, i quoted the one where you accuse me of not understading what i just read. the one where you just wanted to be a condecending ***** not wanting to "reward me" for some reason and asserting that i have the "inability to make rational decisions" together with some BS about WMD's. whatever.

you want to talk about Obama or Gingrich then man up. otherwise STFU.

quote:
Thanks for the ad hominems though.


back at ya.


Posted by Q5echo on Mar-21-2008 02:40:

quote:
Originally posted by jerZ07002
you are absolutely correct, he has to be an amazing writer being the chief editor of the harvard law review.


just a suggestion. try researching exactly how he performed during his term as editor of HLR. you might be suprised.

take what information you find with a grain of salt because it is the internet and there really isn't much.

and if you can find ANYTHING he published during his tenure at HLR then let us know. a lot of people would be grateful.


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