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USA to deploy another missle defense system ... in Turkey

Well, well ... so who is brewing Cold War this time around? Who is spreading bases, troops and military gear? Who is it NATO really against by continuously expanding eastward, towards Russian borders? What is the next country (near Russia) to receive a missile defense shield - Georgia, Azerbaijan, Ukraine, Kazakhstan - make your bets.

http://article.wn.com/view/2008/03/...n_addition_to_/

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USA to deploy another radar system in Turkey in addition to Poland and Czech Republic The US administration has been conducting secret talks on the deployment of a mobile radar of its missile defense system in another European country - Turkey. The USA may start official negotiations on the matter during the NATO summit. For the time being it is known that US Defense Secretary Robert Gates touched upon the issue during his recent visit to Turkey. The new plans of the US administration may seriously aggravate its relations with Moscow. The fact of USA's negotiations with Turkey...

http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/...p?enewsid=98659

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Gates, Turkish leaders held missile defense talks, US says U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates and top Turkish military and civilian leaders discussed American plans for a missile defense system to counter Iran during his visit to Ankara late February, the Pentagon said Monday. Asked at a briefing if the missile defense was an agenda item during Gates' talks in Turkey, Pentagon Spokesman Geoff Morrell admitted that it was. "The focus of the talks at the time primarily dealt with the [Turkish] cross-border operation into northern Iraq, but missile defense did come up during the course of our talks, not only with the Turkish military, but with President [Abdullah] G�l and Prime Minister [Recep Tayyip] Erdo�an," Morrell said, although he added: "Not that it was so much an issue here." The spokesman declined to provide other details, saying: "It was a subject of discussion, but I don't think we want to get into specifics at this point." The U.S. general overseeing the construction of the multi-billion dollar missile shield against Iran said one month ago that in addition to planned capabilities in the Czech Republic and Poland, Washington was also seeking cooperation with Ankara for a third missile defense site in Turkey. A powerful, "forward based" X-band radar station could go in southeastern Europe, possibly in Turkey, the Caucasus or the Caspian Sea region, Lt. Gen. Henry Obering, head of Pentagon's Missile Defense Agency, told a defense conference in Washington on Feb. 12. "This is very mobile, transportable, so it's not something we have to deal with immediately," Obering was quoted as saying by Reuters report at the time. "It's something we can deal with downstream." The United States is working with Poland and the Czech Republic for the first two European antimissile sites it has been seeking. The Czechs are planned to host a major radar while interceptor missiles would be deployed in Poland. Washington says the plan is to counter a possible missile strike from Iran, although Russia is skeptical over U.S. intentions and strongly opposes the system's construction in two of its former satellites.

http://english.pravda.ru/world/amer...88-usa_turkey-0

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The US administration has been conducting secret talks on the deployment of a mobile radar of its missile defense system in another European country � Turkey. The USA may start official negotiations on the matter during the NATO summit. For the time being it is known that US Defense Secretary Robert Gates touched upon the issue during his recent visit to Turkey. The new plans of the US administration may seriously aggravate its relations with Moscow. The fact of USA�s negotiations with Turkey has been officially confirmed only on March 13, 2008. Pentagon Press Secretary Geoff Morrell told reporters of Gates�s recent visit to Ankara, the capital of Turkey. US and Turkish officials discussed the military operation of the Turkish Army in Iraq. In addition, Morrell said, the parties discussed plans on the establishment of the missile defense system in Turkey. John Rood, acting Undersecretary of State, previously rejected the fact of the negotiations. Rood particularly stated in Washington that the USA was not planning any missile defense talks with any countries other than Poland and the Czech Republic. As it turns out, Robert Gates urged Turkey to cooperate in the creation of the third center of the missile defense system. The Pentagon head promised to render financial help to Turkey in terms of army modernization. According to Gates, investments in Turkey�s defense sector may reach one billion dollars. The US-based Missile Defense Agency intends to deploy a mobile radar system in Turkey, the Austrian newspaper Die Presse wrote. For the time being, the USA uses only one such radar, which is located in California. Apparently, the systems, which the USA intends to build in Poland and the Czech Republic, will not be able to protect all allies. Greece, Bulgaria, Romania and Turkey may suffer from a possible missile attack from Iran, US officials believe. The NATO summit is to discuss the problem at a meeting in Bucharest, in April.

It's just radar.

I'll play devil's advocate here. Think about this for a moment Russia doesn't trade it's oil or natural gas to the US. In fact it refuses to trade with the AMerican's as much as possible. Why do they do this for? They refuse to trade with the world's biggest market which continue's to grow? Maybe the Russian's too are in cold war mentality. So don't go around accusing/blaming one side and than say oh the other is an angel and never does any wrongdoing.

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Originally posted by guerra-monstru I'll play devil's advocate here. Think about this for a moment Russia doesn't trade it's oil or natural gas to the US. In fact it refuses to trade with the AMerican's as much as possible. Why do they do this for? They refuse to trade with the world's biggest market which continue's to grow? Maybe the Russian's too are in cold war mentality. So don't go around accusing/blaming one side and than say oh the other is an angel and never does any wrongdoing.

Excuse me, but pipeline from Russia to USA is the dumbest idea ever. Just the pipeline itself will cost many billions of dollars, and where are you going to lay it? Who's gonna pay for it - American taxpayers? USA as it is is mostly oiled by oil/gas supplies from Middle East, Canada, Mexico and South-Central America. So beat it.

Russia is not in Cold War mentality, its trying to defend itself against NATO/USA's aggression.

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Originally posted by Sunsnail It's just radar.

COPY + PASTE:

"The U.S. general overseeing the construction of the multi-billion dollar missile shield against Iran said one month ago that in addition to planned capabilities in the Czech Republic and Poland, Washington was also seeking cooperation with Ankara for a third missile defense site in Turkey."

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Originally posted by Magnetonium Excuse me, but pipeline from Russia to USA is the dumbest idea ever. Just the pipeline itself will cost many billions of dollars, and where are you going to lay it? Who's gonna pay for it - American taxpayers? USA as it is is mostly oiled by oil/gas supplies from Middle East, Canada, Mexico and South-Central America. So beat it. Russia is not in Cold War mentality, its trying to defend itself against NATO/USA's aggression.

Omg is that all what Russia has to offer oil and gas? It's silly of course the Russian's are in cold war mentality things haven't changed much. You get a KGB and a red neck what do you get? Another cold war!
Russia is to blame just as much as the US so try not to blame one side only.

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Originally posted by guerra-monstru Omg is that all what Russia has to offer oil and gas? It's silly of course the Russian's are in cold war mentality things haven't changed much. You get a KGB and a red neck what do you get? Another cold war! Russia is to blame just as much as the US so try not to blame one side only.

OK, now your turn to prove why Russia is starting Cold War. Go ahead, lay out your points. So far you have presented nothing. All evidence points that NATO and USA are expanding their military bloc, bases, military radars / troops closer and closer to Russian borders. And Russia, by far, has been doing quite the opposite - for example, they finally closed their last military base in Georgia last year ...

So there you go.

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Originally posted by Magnetonium OK, now your turn to prove why Russia is starting Cold War. Go ahead, lay out your points. So far you have presented nothing. All evidence points that NATO and USA are expanding their military bloc, bases, military radars / troops closer and closer to Russian borders. And Russia, by far, has been doing quite the opposite - for example, they finally closed their last military base in Georgia last year ... So there you go.

did they close it out of niceness or because they didn't have the money to afford it? Besides most Georgians don't even like Russians' so why should they stay there? Also, just because they withdraw from one nation doesn't mean that they are not playing a game of cards. US policy has always been passive aggression and Russia can't compete with that so it's best if the bear go hibernates for several decades if not centuries if you think the US is beginning a new cold war.

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Originally posted by guerra-monstru did they close it out of niceness or because they didn't have the money to afford it? Besides most Georgians don't even like Russians' so why should they stay there? Also, just because they withdraw from one nation doesn't mean that they are not playing a game of cards. US policy has always been passive aggression and Russia can't compete with that so it's best if the bear go hibernates for several decades if not centuries if you think the US is beginning a new cold war.

LOL ... Yes, sure, Russia closed down its final base in the strategic country of Georgia because they were just bored and even though last year alone Russia accumulated 200 billion dollars in extra money for its monetary reserves, this base was too dam expensive to maintain ... Their card in this "game" was to give Georgia to USA and then I guess build a giant wall around itself or something, right? Oh, no, let me try again - they thought that by retreating yet again they will be able to win by convincing the world how evil Americans are ... right?

What you say doesnt make sense. What does make sense is that USA is acting just like another greedy selfish empire. And all empires face a similar ending sooner or later ... just look at history.

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Originally posted by Magnetonium What you say doesnt make sense. What does make sense is that USA is acting just like another greedy selfish empire. And all empires face a similar ending sooner or later ... just look at history.

Stupid anti-American's. How stupid can you get? The US empire if it falls will cause a HUGE economic collapse around the world. The more you understand that the less BS will come out of your mouth.
If you feel like Russia is being threatened than by all means Russia has a right to defend itself. But it isn't and still you can't compare Russia's 200 billion dollar reserve to the one trillion dollar oil reserve the US has ready at any moment to use. The Russian's are not being threatened you just can't stand the idea that Russia is back to where it was pre-revolution.

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Originally posted by guerra-monstru Stupid anti-American's. How stupid can you get? The US empire if it falls will cause a HUGE economic collapse around the world. The more you understand that the less BS will come out of your mouth. If you feel like Russia is being threatened than by all means Russia has a right to defend itself. But it isn't and still you can't compare Russia's 200 billion dollar reserve to the one trillion dollar oil reserve the US has ready at any moment to use. The Russian's are not being threatened you just can't stand the idea that Russia is back to where it was pre-revolution.

Heck, I wish Russia today was at its pre-Revolution golden positions. We were only miles away from Dardanelles and Indian Ocean.

I am not being "anti-American". I am just saying the obvious truth - the way America is behaving, its just like any empire in history. And they all collapse. You're denying it, but its inevitable. Its only a question of time. I am not saying that it wont affect the world economy and monetary situation (which is getting fucked up as it is), but economic and financial upheavals come and go. Fun and happy times are not going to be here forever. Even a natural disaster can rip everything up. A global disease. A big war. And other factors. Big empires are the ones that are the most vulnerable to these calamities.

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Originally posted by Sunsnail It's just radar.

Even so, it will still cost millions of dollars to implement. Money that could have been better spent internally. We're being hit with a recession, the unemployment rate continues to rise, education and health care are being downgraded, and yet somehow the money continues to pour into our military to ensure our global supremacy. And for what? To better protect us? Or to allow other contractors make further killings in war profiteering? And I have to wonder if putting this system in place is part of a plan to provoke the Iranians into attacking us so they can have cause to attack and occupy Iran.

We seem to be worrying an awful lot about potential attacks from countries way above the "terrorism" threshhold... wonder what's going on in the minds of those crazy lunatics who know the variables we don't and make these decisions.

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Originally posted by Zharen Even so, it will still cost millions of dollars to implement. Money that could have been better spent internally. We're being hit with a recession, the unemployment rate continues to rise, education and health care are being downgraded, and yet somehow the money continues to pour into our military to ensure our global supremacy. And for what? To better protect us? Or to allow other contractors make further killings in war profiteering? And I have to wonder if putting this system in place is part of a plan to provoke the Iranians into attacking us so they can have cause to attack and occupy Iran.

Sometimes I wonder if people in government are buying massive amounts of cocaine, and need reasons that sound legit to cover it up. LOL

Tax payers money well spent.

Now turkey is going to bomb us. With legit reasoning.

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Originally posted by Magnetonium though last year alone Russia accumulated 200 billion dollars in extra money for its monetary reserves,

If russia was smart they would spend that on Education seeing as to how they need to catch up with the American's and Europeans. Russia at the moment isn't a beacon for scientific research and advancement. Even if it was pre-revolution I am near certain they would still not have been the world's superpower. And the American empire is different than that of Rome's so you really can't compare the two.
It's funny too. Russian people=Europe AND Asia's Africans. Take that as you want it.

Cool, I missed most of the first cold war.

Should be fun.

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Originally posted by Capitalizt Cool, I missed most of the first cold war. Should be fun.

Heh I'm old enough to remember watching as a kid such classics as Red Dawn, D.A.R.Y.L and Rocky IV! (Can't remember much on the news tho!)

On missile defences* well there's two sides to the issue...

Of course Russia (and China) will see this as a threat, but the currently operational and planned defences can in no way defend against a missile attack from Russia (or China). What the ballistic missile defence shield is designed to defend against is a single missile. To be honest, there are great doubts over whether or not current and planned BMD components will even defend against a single missile (I'm not sure if it has even been tested under realistic conditions, certainly 2 years ago it had only been tested against targets where the course of the target was known by the testers). It cannot defend against the 1000s of warheads that would be used in a Russian attack (and I doubt it ever will be able to because of the sheer amount of warheads that will be used and also because simple modifications to missiles can counter some of the defence mechanisms).

However, in 2006, the US Defense Intelligence Agency estimated China had no more than 100 nuclear warheads and in 2004 the Department of Defense estimated that the Chinese only have 20 ICBMs capable of reaching the US. It is quite reasonable to assume that, should the US BMD work as it should with all its future components, and other "unplanned" components that have been conceived, the BMD might be able to neutralise China's nuclear deterrant. Of course, China will simply multiply their arsenal accordingly leading to a much safer world! But then again, if we're talking about bases in Eastern Europe then they're in the wrong place to target Chinese (and Russian for that matter) missiles...now Taiwan on the other hand...Taiwan are one of America's biggest arms importers. As we know from the Olypics etc, they are quite keen to break away from China. The US would surely feel compelled to get involved in the obvious military action China will take should Taiwan declare independence and should the BMD prove to work very well, and could be deployed fairly quickly in Taiwan or Japan, then we have serious problems for world peace.

However, as it stands, the current and planned BMD components outside America happen to be in a direct line between America and Iran, and are not geographically located to be able to target Russian or Chinese missiles. Given the other fact that no missile defence system could even neutralise the Russian nuclear deterrant then I don't think Russia has any cause for concern that the BMD is being implemented to defend/attack against Russia.



* please note the correct spelling of "defence"

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer Tax payers money well spent.

couldnt agree more. hey who needs better healthcare, or lower university and college fees when you got bombs!

What Russia worries about the most is that these missile defence bases are being implemented to intercept any Russian missiles after NATO/USA launch a surprise attack on Russia to defeat it once and for all.

Judging by the advancing NATO pact, continuing Russophobia around the world, and failure by the West to get with the times and allow Russia to develop democracy gradually and steadily - all this is creating a new dangerous era. In this new Cold War, which Russia cant afford to be part of and will never admit to be in one, but they will concentrate a lot of money and power to build allies around itself to establish a "safety zone" to prevent potential enemies like NATO to dig in and prepare to neutralize Russia. Expect Russia to edge closer and closer to a dangerous alliance with China.

Russia can ill afford another Operation Barbarossa. And they're not being paranoid ... its clear that NATO is advancing, and that USA and its allies, and other countries like China are very hungry for rich Russian resources, as they were hungry for Middle East.

You would think that we would be working towards being able to have a missile defense system completely housed within the U.S.

We seriously need to stop maintaining bases and other crap over seas and beef up our military and defense here at home.

The rest of the world does not want us sitting in their back yard, so let's get out of it and let them do as they wish.

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Originally posted by Dieselboy_1206 The rest of the world does not want us sitting in their back yard, so let's get out of it and let them do as they wish.

If only your government was thinking like that the world would be a much better place.

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Originally posted by Magnetonium What Russia worries about the most is that these missile defence bases are being implemented to intercept any Russian missiles after NATO/USA launch a surprise attack on Russia to defeat it once and for all. Judging by the advancing NATO pact, continuing Russophobia around the world, and failure by the West to get with the times and allow Russia to develop democracy gradually and steadily - all this is creating a new dangerous era. In this new Cold War, which Russia cant afford to be part of and will never admit to be in one, but they will concentrate a lot of money and power to build allies around itself to establish a "safety zone" to prevent potential enemies like NATO to dig in and prepare to neutralize Russia. Expect Russia to edge closer and closer to a dangerous alliance with China. Russia can ill afford another Operation Barbarossa. And they're not being paranoid ... its clear that NATO is advancing, and that USA and its allies, and other countries like China are very hungry for rich Russian resources, as they were hungry for Middle East.

America's missile defence shield, even with all the wild and whacky components that have ever been thought up, could never neutralise Russia's nuclear deterrent...

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