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Bell now 'shaping' everybody's internet
Bell, Rogers and other ISPs around the world have been experiencing a huge increase in traffic due to peer-2-peer (P2P) programs like Bittorrent. They like to use the figure that: 10% of the users are using 90% of the infrastructure with bittorrent. To combat this, they have implemented 'traffic shaping' which slows down certain types of p2p traffic during peek hours of the day (3pm-2am).
Last year, Bell implemented this, so people like myself found a third party (acanac) that rents the lines from bell, but offers unlimited downloading. That was fine and dandy, until Bell started shaping 3rd party traffic as well.
Up until yesterday, it was rumor, which I had suspected for a few weeks now, but Bell has confirmed. The problem is that Bell says they are within their right to shape, because it is their network and their primary customers come first, so they have to shape 3rd party data. The 3rd party companies (Techsavvy, Acanace et al) say that Bell has no right to touch their data, let alone shape and slow it down.
You may be thinking, ok who cares, its only hard core down loaders that are affected by these policies. Nope, sorry. Business users have had a devil of a time using virtual private networks (VPN) over ISPs with shaped data. Also, a lot of encrypted traffic has been slowed down, because that was a popular way of disguising torrent traffic. So ISPs like Rogers just limited all encrypted data; problem being that the web is so insecure, you have to use encryption for a lot of websites, to make sure you can log in securely, and now these transactions are also being slowed down.
I don't know how many of you have heard the term 'net neutrality', but it states that for the internet to be neutral and open to all, all data must be treated equally and not slowed down in any way. ISPs would like to serve up 'ligit' data from companies like new agencies at faster speeds for a 'small' free, for preferential treatment. This goes against the entire philosophy behind the internet: everybody is equal, and everybody has an equal say. If you have an idea, the Internet is the place to put it, no matter how small or big you are, everybody has the same opportunity to succeed. If the ISPs are now treating some data as preferred, what room does the little guy have to compete with News Corp.?
I did not think this issue would hit Canada so quickly, but just over night it has become a huge talking point. This is certainly a case for the CRTC and competition beuro. Bell is basically giving a big fuck you to all 3rd party ISPs because they own the lines.
Some links to keep reading to stay up to date:
Original DSL reports thread
Michael Geist Blog (fights for tech issues in Canada)
I will be following the case very closely, and making sure I am in contact with the right government regulators and political members. Hopefully enough people make a big enough stink to actually force Bell to change their policies, or upgrade their infrastructure.
Shitty, i've noticed in general my Bell internet was lacking, been going on and off... and as for the throttling or shaping, it was fairly obvious... was thinking about going 3rd party myself, didn't know they were going to or already were shaping 3rd party data as well...
Ohh and here is a great video explaining and showing exactly what net neutrality is and how it affects us and examples of how it's going to or already has... great watch if you got 10 mins...
i've felt the shaping for a couple of months now during the peak periods. however, since i'm home during those times anyway, i would throttle my torrents to around 150-200kbps download and 40kbps upload. the caps are a lot lower at probably 75 d/l and 25 upload. as long as the bandwith is unlimited and my monthly bill is low, i'm ok with it personally.
however, i can see how this is starting to infringe on the internet as a whole. i can see other permanent limitations coming into effect later which will limit the experience over the net.
No wonder my neighbours sympatico has been feeling pretty slow lately...
I thought he limited my connection or something lol
I hate Bell, but the catch with them is they own the first KM of phoneline in Canada and get a royalty from every company who has customers in that territory.
They will never die
I have been trying to find the right way for awhile to tell the people who say "lol suckers, im on acanac/techsavvy/[insert reseller here] have fun doodz!@#@%$11" that they are in for the same treatment before long... good to see now that people will start to realize nobody is safe from these unethical policies.
/waiting to see the outcome of current Comcast legal proceedings
//hope Sandvine Incorporated burns down to the ground
The cause of the problem is... lack of competition. In ontario we are dominated by Rogers and Bell... and sure there are small companies too but no major competitors. Without competition companies like bell can be "slowing down" our internet and we cant really do much about it. Now if there was a new competitor in the market, NO ONE would put up with the bullshit of slower speeds.
correct me if i am wrong.
The most ironic part is that I canceled my Sympatico account not because of p2p, but because of FTP. When they started to shape FTP a completely legit protocol, I just got so fed up. I use FTP for school, and for web development. Being on a shaped network is just FTP is just crazy.
Bell has gone too far, and is completely undermining the way people communicate on the web. By shaping, they are simply saying that you have to communicate their way, or you will be slowed down.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by kitchTA The cause of the problem is... lack of competition. In ontario we are dominated by Rogers and Bell... and sure there are small companies too but no major competitors. Without competition companies like bell can be "slowing down" our internet and we cant really do much about it. Now if there was a new competitor in the market, NO ONE would put up with the bullshit of slower speeds. correct me if i am wrong. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by kitchTA The cause of the problem is... lack of competition. In ontario we are dominated by Rogers and Bell... and sure there are small companies too but no major competitors. Without competition companies like bell can be "slowing down" our internet and we cant really do much about it. Now if there was a new competitor in the market, NO ONE would put up with the bullshit of slower speeds. correct me if i am wrong. |
The problem is not simply lack of competition. The bigger problem is lack of concern by the government. If the government was actually concerned about this, there would be rules and regulations in place preventing Rogers and Bell from having monopolies, while helping stimulate competition. There would also be strict guidelines as to how or what ISPs can do with internet bandwith before it reaches the end consumer or wholesale 3rd-party ISPs.
People need to focus their efforts on making this issue for the government, forcing the government to act. This story needs to be all over the news, on Citytv, on CBC, on CTV, on Global. The word needs to be spread all over media outlets which would force the government to take notice as "Joe Blow consumer" would hear about what's going on.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Dark_Archonis The problem is not simply lack of competition. The bigger problem is lack of concern by the government. If the government was actually concerned about this, there would be rules and regulations in place preventing Rogers and Bell from having monopolies, while helping stimulate competition. There would also be strict guidelines as to how or what ISPs can do with internet bandwith before it reaches the end consumer or wholesale 3rd-party ISPs. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by TO guy http://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/...n/h_00130e.html |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Dark_Archonis This is already being pursued by some of the 3rd party ISPs. Unfortunately, that is equivalent to a complaint call line. Much more than that needs to be done to force the government to take notice. It's a good start, but a big step would be to see the story front and center on all major Canadian news and media outlets. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by kitchTA The cause of the problem is... lack of competition. In ontario we are dominated by Rogers and Bell... and sure there are small companies too but no major competitors. Without competition companies like bell can be "slowing down" our internet and we cant really do much about it. Now if there was a new competitor in the market, NO ONE would put up with the bullshit of slower speeds. correct me if i am wrong. |
Guys it has nothing to do with the number of ISPs, or perceived competition. It has everything to do with Bell owning the lines. As long as Bell and Rogers own all the lines, there is nothing any other ISP can do except put in their own.
The most communist thing to do, would be for Bell and Rogers to sell their lines to the gov, and then ISPs rent from the gov. But, as a business that would make no sense for Bell or Rogers to sell their competitive advantage.
The true problem is that these companies just do not have the infrastructure to support the speeds they claim. They over sell their lines, based on the assumption that most people will never use the full potential of their service. What the CRTC needs to do is penalise these companies for not sticking true to their promise of service.
If you are paying for 5Mb, then you should be able to get it, regardless of what other users are doing. Otherwise, do not market your product as such.
This brings up another point; there should be better government regulation and rules in terms of how ISPs are allowed to market their services, or how they control their services.
Most ISPs are dramatically overselling their services and misleading consumers but there is nothing in place that prevents them from doing that.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Orko If you are paying for 5Mb, then you should be able to get it, regardless of what other users are doing. Otherwise, do not market your product as such. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Orko The true problem is that these companies just do not have the infrastructure... |
alright this is a long read but my buddy kevin (rip) had a big run in with rogers when they first started limiting band width and shaping there internet connection.
he was a very skilled writer and absolutley halarious. well worth the read.
FCUK ROGERS
Ok I know it's been a while but I've run into a problem with my internet and now you're going to hear about it.
Rogers cable recently implemented a new feature to thier high speed broadband service. It's called "traffic shaping." Oh, don't get the wrong idea, this isn't for you, it's for them. Basically to make room for thier new voice over ip service, they had to eliminate a chunk of our internet service. So to do this, they use this traffic shaping to leave all peer-2-peer programs at bottom priority. So this means that all you Kazaa, Limewire, Bittorrent and other p2p users will all get screwed. Turtles and snails will now stop to point and laugh at how slow your internet has become. And most lovely of all, they didn't tell us about it. In fact, they were purposely trying to hide it from us. All the tech support guys were told to keep a tight lip about it, and even employees were kept in the dark about it. They really thought they could hide this from the computer geeks? You know what, Ted is such a money hungry twat. Anyways, anyone in Toronto, or Canada for that matter who has recently noticed a severe slow down in thier internet, now you know why. And this doesn't just apply to bottom end users. People using business or extreme lines will feel the same effect. So basically, anyone using Rogers as thier internet provider right now, might as well be using Rogers high speed Lite, because even if you're paying more, you're getting the same internet as the cheapest plan......just so you know -_^
This is hardly the first time I've had a problem with Rogers. They once shut off my internet because I exceeded my internet usage limit. Even though I clearly paid for "unlimited access" internet. So I went through thier terms of services and you won't believe what it said. It was written in guilty-bastard-scientific-complication-language, but I managed to decipher two shocking terms from it.
1) They decide what the word unlimited means, which ironically enough was a metaphor for "limited."
I actually called tech support for this and let me give you the convo:
Me: Why was my internet shut off?
ape with Rogers hat: Because you have been downloading way too much and it is affecting the system of everyone around you.
Me: How is that my problem? You sold me unlimited access internet at 3mb/s, so now you're telling me I can't use it?
ape in Rogers hat: Well you can use it but just don't leave it on all day and don't go over the limit.
Me: That's bullshit. I should be able to use it as much as I want. It says unlimited.
ape in Rogers hat: Well it is, in the sense that you can use it all day, you just can't be downloading all day.
Me: So it's not actually unlimited then.
ape in Rogers hat: Well......uh......
Me: And besides, you never even told me a limit before you cut me off! If I knew how much I would be shut down for, then I would have not downlaoded so much! What is the limit anyways?
ape in Rogers hat: Well there is none.
Me: WHAT?!?!? You just said I was shut down for going over the limit!
ape in Roegrs hat: Well we decide whether or not you are using too much, but there is no actual set limit.
Me: What the fuck! So you don't even know when you're going to shut me down, just whenever you feel like it?!?!?! THAT'S THE DUMBEST FUCKING TREEHUMPING PINK BUNNY RAPING HORSE SHIT I'VE EVER HEARD IN MY WHOLE PROFESSIONAL CAREER!!!
ape in Roger hat: Well sorry sir, that's the way it is.
Me: Fuck!
*hang up*
2) The other term of service was the worst of them. It was buried near the end and used a lot of bullshit and complicated words, but it basically said this: We at Rogers may change the terms of services at any time, and in any way we please, without notifying you, and you must comply.
WTF kind of term is that?!?! You can change the terms of service at any time and in any way?!?!?! Well, that's Rogers for you. Just a big corporation looking to suck the money off of you as efficiently as possible.
Isn't it ironic though, the more technology advances and after all this new advancement, you would think that the internet could only get faster. And I've been on cable internet since it first came out on the market. But instead, ever since day one of cable internet, it has only gotten slower, while the prices have only gotten higher. It's like we're paying them extra to downgrade us.
Anyways, now you know what Rogers is doing. They don't want people to know about this, so I encourage you to talk to everyone you know about this, or post it in your blogs or do whatever it takes to get this information around. Especially you Limewire, Kazaa and Bittorrent people. You will be affected severely, if you haven't already. Just giving you a heads up.
oh and he got an e-mail from rogers saying he went 300% over his bandwidth. his entire neighbrouhood only used 12% of their available band width.
here was the article about this issue that was published in the Globe & Mail recently:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv...Technology/home
.. also the matter of 'packet bias' where ISPs who are involved in business agreements with content providers could potentially prioritize one party's packets over another.
Wasn't there a new law that was recently passed in the US preventing this type of data discrimination?
Some of you Rogers customers may have also gotten some mail recently concerning their new usage allowance policy which applies a surcharge in the event that you exceed your new monthly data limit. Essentially it's almost akin now to your utility bill where you pay a premium for additional use.
I don't mind paying for a certain amount of data, but I agree that it shouldn't be discriminated.
The funny thing is that companies like Bell, Rogers, and Telus have owned much of the infrastructure for years. A lot of these third party companies lease their bandwidth because trying to build this type of infrastructure from scratch would have huge startup costs.
anyways tons of info on this issue:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_neutrality
| quote: |
| Originally posted by phlog i don't know what percentage of torrent traffic is copyrighted material (therefore illegal) but it's high, probably upwards of 90% (i realize it's falling now that some artists/companies are releasing material legitimately via p2p, but the point still stands). ISP's have no way of determining what is legit and what isn't so torrent traffic seems like a reasonable place to start cutting bandwidth if you're a company trying to maintain an already strained network. with regards to the FTP throttling, i wasn't aware of this but i do believe there is something in the contract that says you aren't allowed to host with a residential connection... i could be wrong. |
RAPIDSHARE FTW!
I can find almost anything I want using rapidshare links 
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| Originally posted by legendary_waz RAPIDSHARE FTW! I can find almost anything I want using rapidshare links |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by phlog haha i usually forget what i was trying to download after the two minute wait for it to become availalbe. |
(dirt cheap considering how much I download)
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