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length of intros to trance type tracks

hey you guys.

I am close to releasing something for fun, a track that is finished.

Just wondering about my intro. My outro is 32 bars!!!!

My intro interms of feel and built up momentum tends to be 36 bars.

A Dj told me that it is pretty standard for Trance tracks to have 32 bar intros.

That little extra 4 bars extra i am now reluctant to have.
Just wondering if the groups of 8 are nccesary - like 32 or 40 or 48 bar intros

Any advice ???

If you don't follow correct phrasing then DJs will have a hell of a time mixing your music. Hell, if you don't follow correct phrasing then you're an idiot.

(No offense.)

dont know what the correct phrasing is, i guess

quote:

Originally posted by technomonster dont know what the correct phrasing is, i guess

8, 16, 32, 64, 128 etc.

Thats actually neccesary at all, as long as its in the same time signature, similar tempo and groups of at least 2, a DJ can mix the track if he knows it well enough, its just if hes expecting to have 36 then ony has 32, it might be a problem. Hopefully a DJ will not mix a track hes never heard before.

The most important thing is to maintain the flow of the track and sometimes breaking the 8/16 bar convention can keep more interest and get better flow.

production forum guys

The most important thing is making a track that sounds correct, not a track that fits to some unwritten convention. If a DJ has trouble mixing it then so what - if it a good enough track he'll fit it in regardless and in the case of the bigger DJs they're earning plenty of money so let them work for it

Good work nonetheless
More intros to the scene!

quote:

Originally posted by kitphillips Thats actually neccesary at all, as long as its in the same time signature, similar tempo and groups of at least 2, a DJ can mix the track if he knows it well enough, its just if hes expecting to have 36 then ony has 32, it might be a problem. Hopefully a DJ will not mix a track hes never heard before. The most important thing is to maintain the flow of the track and sometimes breaking the 8/16 bar convention can keep more interest and get better flow.

If a track isn't phrased right, it won't change at the same intervals as the track it's being mixed with. Elements will be introduced or taken away at different times on each track and your result is a messy transition.

EDIT: Although any track not phrased correctly is going to sound very weird to listen to, because it won't do things when you expect it to.

i guess,

that if i did have 36 bars and not 32, then it would eliminate the one technique in mixing transitions - the one where the start of my melody at bar 36 is brought in at full volume from nothing, if you know what i mean.

because the phrasing of the previous piece in groups of 8 bars might not like the sudden input of the new at bar 4 of a 8 bar phrase.


i guess everyone can see that i am not a dj.

You really shouldn't give the slightest fuck what the DJ wants or is expecting. It's your track, do whatever you want with it.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J EDIT: Although any track not phrased correctly is going to sound very weird to listen to, because it won't do things when you expect it to.

Quite a few 90's trance tracks have strange phrasing. One of my personal favourites, Philippe van Mullem - The Secret Folder (Part 1) is an example. Another quite random track Oakenfold used to play is The Blackmaster - Solid Tube.

quote:

Originally posted by distant Another quite random track Oakenfold used to play is The Blackmaster - Solid Tube.

Yeah M.I.K.E. has used some strange structures in some of his older tracks.

more and more people make their own edits to tracks anyways so intro/outro length shouldn't be that important.

who cares.

dont follow a set pattern its boring. just build it how YOU think it sounds good

i like the intro on prodigy - no good (start the dance), please make stuff like that, its not that hard for dj either.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Mikey Mike You really shouldn't give the slightest fuck what the DJ wants or is expecting. It's your track, do whatever you want with it.

+1
I find that most of track i like these day are not phrased normally. Doesnt matter what the dj think if he cant play it then he just lack the skill 2 do so

If you're talking about intro before any beats come in it's always nice if it's phrased normally. The DJ can match the beats in the headphones then if they want easily throw the record on at the beginning to bring it in from the intro leading into the beats in a sweet transition. Sure a Dj could work with the record and know where he needs to start it for the mix, but shoot, if it works for the song keepin it normal is best for everyone. but if it's just better the way it is, go ahead and leave it. Usually intros are for set starts anyway. Mixing starts at the beat.

I see your concerns, but it's the DJ's job to make your music mesh with the last track, not yours.

quote:

Originally posted by ohbeone If you're talking about intro before any beats come in it's always nice if it's phrased normally. The DJ can match the beats in the headphones then if they want easily throw the record on at the beginning to bring it in from the intro leading into the beats in a sweet transition. Sure a Dj could work with the record and know where he needs to start it for the mix, but shoot, if it works for the song keepin it normal is best for everyone. but if it's just better the way it is, go ahead and leave it. Usually intros are for set starts anyway. Mixing starts at the beat.

It's a hell lot harder if the intro have some kind of break/d&b beat going alongside before the 4x4 beat/verse kicks in, it could totally kick you off.

I don't really know what to say about this. In one way, if you don't even know much about phrasing, trying weird structures is most likely just going to be a waste of time, as it will make the track sound like shit. In another way, sometimes n00bs trying stuff they aren't "supposed to" gives them an original sound, and that's how music moves forward.

So just ignore this post.

quote:

Originally posted by Palladium production forum guys

if this is the guy who i think it is (and i'm pretty sure it is), it hasn't stopped him on the otther 17 threads he's posted here asking how to make his track.

quote:

Originally posted by Trance Nutter if this is the guy who i think it is (and i'm pretty sure it is), it hasn't stopped him on the otther 17 threads he's posted here asking how to make his track.

fuck! i remember that now! the guy is either insane or a troll

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Mikey Mike You really shouldn't give the slightest fuck what the DJ wants or is expecting. It's your track, do whatever you want with it.

Plus one.
Dj's are given way too much credit for their work in comparison to the artists that make what they're playing. Making changes based on Dj's preferences would be a bit much.

hey you guys i am not a troll.

its just that i made a 36 bar intro and a working dj said that it would be a problem.

i was shocked and now i am worried about releasing it, that is why i am looking for more opinions

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