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-- Tory MP, premier apologize for homophobic remarks
Tory MP, premier apologize for homophobic remarks
Careful what you say on video...it might come back to bite you on the ass 16 years later.
the TA filters block out a certain word, but needless to say it starts with an f, end with s, and has aggot in between, if you read the article 
http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/409937
| quote: |
| Apr 03, 2008 06:11 PM THE CANADIAN PRESS OTTAWA�A Saskatchewan Conservative MP as well as the province�s premier were quick to apologize today after the NDP released a 16-year-old videotape that contained sexist, racist and homophobic comments. �I just want to publicly say that I am truly, truly sorry. I�m ashamed for the comments,� member of Parliament Tom Lukiwski said. ``If I could take those comments back, I would.� Lukiwski said anti-gay slurs he made on the video released by the Saskatchewan NDP don�t reflect �the type of person that I am.� He did not say whether he would step down over the matter. Saskatchewan Premier Brad Wall also apologized for his comments that appear to make fun of the Ukrainian heritage of former Saskatchewan premier Roy Romanow, who defeated the provincial Tories in the November 1991 election. �It just never was then, and neither would it ever be, in any way an attempt to slight any group,� Wall said. Romanow was flying to Ottawa today and was not immediately available for comment. There were gasps when the federal NDP raised the issue in the House of Commons and read some of the offending remarks about homosexuals out loud. �Let me put it to you this way � there�s As and Bs,� Lukiwski says on the tape. �The As are guys like me. The Bs are homosexual ******s with dirt in their fingernails that transmit diseases.� Tory House Leader Peter Van Loan said he was unfamiliar with the video tape, but �the comments do sound distressing and inappropriate, and they will have due attention.� Pat Atkinson, the Saskatchewan NDP�s deputy house leader, said the tape appears to have been made during the 1991 provincial election campaign. Lukiwski was a Tory organizer at the time and Wall was a ministerial aide. Her party found the tape after moving into Opposition offices last fall following a loss to Wall�s Saskatchewan Party. She said there were also remarks on the video directed at the provincial Liberal leader at the time, Lynda Haverstock, about her gender. The federal Liberals demanded that Lukiwski be stripped of his parliamentary secretary status. They noted the irony of what happened to the last MP in the riding. Then-opposition leader Stephen Harper immediately ousted Lukiwski�s predecessor, Larry Spencer, from the Canadian Alliance caucus in 2003 when he suggested homosexuality should be made illegal again. �The previous Conservative member for this same riding � Mr. Spencer � was dumped by his party for similarly offensive attitudes,� said Liberal MP Ralph Goodale. �Will the government House leader require the member to step aside today from his duties as parliamentary secretary until this matter can be properly investigated and resolved?� |
I saw this on the news tonight.
Some things can come back to haunt you later on in life.
And out of the females and minorities(race) effected by this.
The Gays cry foul the loudest...and i am not knocking preferences, you like the same sex, good, dont hurt anyone great!
To me it seems the "race card" that was oh so overplayed and exaggerated in the 90's has now changed hands and became the "gay card".
And in anycase race, sex, or sexuality related the tape is almost as old as some people you post on this board. He apologized, he certainly could have changed his views in thought process in the last 16 years especially regarding gays, as the last 2 decades have been very pivotal for that sector of our society.
GET OVER IT
Honestly, who's never used the word faggot...
I agree w/cappo about this "gay card" crap. "Fag" is okay between gay people like "nigga" is okay between black people.
well, that's the headline. if they quoted the derogatory gender remark(s) made towards Ms. Haverstock, or the racial remarks that referenced Mr. Romanow, I'd have highlighted them too
I'm sure the 'liberal Canadian Press' intentionally plays up the gay angle (j/k...but someone will eventually be said in this thread, lol)
toss in the fact that the previous MP for that very riding was fired for suggesting that homosexuality be made illegal. remind me to never visit that particular section of SK, lol.
but I'd really love to know what else was said. maybe that was the worst remark...who knows. so racist, homophobic AND gender biased...that's quite the fun conversation he's going have with his party officials this week!
there's no spinning this one other than the timeframe. sure, it's 16 years ago, but it's ON VIDEOTAPE, lol. The opposition (and hopefully people within the party) should be relentless in Harper quickly addressing it (however he sees fit).
Should the guy be fired? meh...I don't know what he's done in the 16 years since then to really be in a position to comment.
For the record, I'd expect Liberals and NDPers to voice the same disgust and call for action if this was one of their own MPs. I certainly would.
story has been updated, but same link...no consequences, it seems?
http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/409937
so he said sorry and that's the end of it? lol...way to show leadership, Mr. Harper.
| quote: |
| Tom Lukiwski apologizes for anti-gay comments made on tape found by Saskatchewan NDP Apr 03, 2008 10:23 PM Tim Cook THE CANADIAN PRESS WARNING: FOUL LANGUAGE REGINA�Tom Lukiwski rocks back and forth in the camera frame while pontificating about the differences between alpha and beta males. The camera operator fiddles with the zoom a bit to frame up the future Member of Parliament's face. Lukiwski looks for the red light to make sure the tape is rolling. "Well, let me put it to you this way," Lukiwski begins. "There's A's and there's B's. The A's are guys like me, the B's are homosexual ******s with dirt on their fingernails that transmit diseases." Those comments, made more than 16 years ago at a booze-fuelled gathering of provincial Tory campaign hacks, came back to haunt the member for Regina-Lumsden-Lake-Centre Thursday. The Saskatchewan NDP found the jaw-dropping tape when it moved into its Opposition offices after losing the provincial election last fall and released it Thursday for the whole world to see. Reaction was swift. The apology was swifter. "I just want to publicly say that I am truly, truly sorry. I'm ashamed for the comments," Lukiwski told reporters in Ottawa. "If I could take those comments back, I would." The Conservatives stood by their man. Prime Minister Stephen Harper kicked Lukiwski's predecessor, Larry Spencer, out of the Canadian Alliance caucus in 2003 for saying homosexuality should be illegal. Lukiwski's comments about gay people spreading disease failed to prompt a similar rebuke. "We believe that Mr. Lukiwski has made an unequivocal apology for those comments and indicated clearly that he does not hold those views," Government House Leader Peter Van Loan said in a telephone interview. "We welcome that quick and unequivocal apology and consider the matter is now closed." But there's little chance it will go away. The tape was so shocking because of the number of people acting like fools on it. It appears it was made during the 1991 provincial election campaign at the Progressive Conservative campaign headquarters. Lukiwski was a campaign organizer at the time. The camera moves around the room and various people are asked for their thoughts on the campaign debate. A young Saskatchewan Premier Brad Wall is on the tape. So is his wife Tami. Wall now leads the Saskatchewan Party, an alliance of provincial Liberals and Tories that formed in the late 1990s, but at the time was a ministerial assistant for the PC party. He is seen on the tape participating in a mock interview. His current executive director of communications, Kathy Young, is holding a paper cup like a microphone. Wall takes aim at Roy Romanow, who was leader of the Saskatchewan NDP, imitating a farmer with a thick Eastern European accent. Romanow is of Ukrainian heritage. "Roy Romanow's got his head up his ass," Wall says. "I don't even know how he walks upright with his head so far up his ass." A little later on Tami is asked by the camera operator to undo a button on her shirt. She doesn't but she playfully pulls Wall's top button open. At another point Wall does a rap imitating the voice of Ronald Reagan. "Well, I'm the big gipper, don't mess with me," he sings. "I'm the baddest rapper this side of DC with my best girl Nancy as my spouse rapping to you from that big white house." Wall offered an apology as well Thursday. He explained that he was only imitating one of his friend's uncles and was in no way trying offend Ukrainians. "It just never was then and neither would it ever be in any way an attempt to slight any group. It just wouldn't and it wasn't, " Wall said. "However if anyone would take it in that way at all � take any offence in this way at all to that � I would unequivocally apologize to those groups, especially with respect to the remarks I made." Then-senator Eric Berntson makes an appearance on the tape. He's the only one that seems to question the toxic nature of the subject matter. "Well, number 1, I'm not Senator Berntson," he says when addressed as such. "I'm an anonymous guy that doesn't know anything about any of this stuff." Lukiwski's comments are not the only offensive ones. Young, who also apologized Thursday, is involved in a joke about sending a letter bomb to a union leader. "Clearly we were just joking and kidding around," Young said. Another unidentified person takes a offensive shot at Romanow and then-Liberal leader Lynda Haverstock when asked for his opinions on the campaign debate. "I predict that Grant Devine will smash the living dog shit out of that spineless political playboy and kick the balls right off of that hard-headed slut Lynda," the man says. Romanow had the reputation of being a smooth talker and sharp dresser, while Haverstock was the first woman to ever lead a political party in Saskatchewan. Federal Opposition members called for Lukiwski's head. NDP leader Jack Layton suggested that the Spencer case sets the precedent for Lukiwski to be kicked out of the Conservative caucus. "All I can say is that the comments were significantly inappropriate," Layton said. "They really hurt a lot of people and I believe that public office holders have to take responsibility for these kind of remarks. And so does the political party that is, in which he holds his membership and his position." Saskatchewan Liberal MP Ralph Goodale said Lukiwski should at least be stripped of his parliamentary secretary status. "Will the government House leader require the member to step aside today from his duties as parliamentary secretary until this matter can be properly investigated and resolved?" Goodale asked. Gay rights activists also want Lukiwski gone. "Quite frankly it's dreadful," said Helen Kennedy, executive director of Egale Canada. "It's not enough. In his apology I don't believe he said the word gay once. You know he didn't apologize directly to our community, he apologized to his family, on behalf of his family. He regrets making the comments because he was caught, so it definitely is not enough." Michelle Wiwchar, a long-time volunteer at the University of Saskatchewan Student's Union Pride Centre in Saskatoon, says people are disgusted by the comments. "The point is that comments like that are not funny," she said. ``They're not funny and they certainly expose a lot of stereotypes that are still alive and well and not necessarily true." The provincial Tories ended up being swept from power by the NDP in 1991. In the ensuing year several caucus members and staff were convicted of fraud and the party was never able to recover politically. |
| quote: |
| EXCERPTS FROM TAPE (WARNING: OFFENSIVE LANGUAGE) A videotape made by Saskatchewan Tories during a provincial election campaign more than 16 years ago has some controversial comments from MP Tom Lukiwski and Saskatchewan Premier Brad Wall. Here are some excerpts from the 24-minute tape, which was released by the provincial NDP and features campaign staffers horsing around on camera: UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We � we would like to ask you a question. You are actually quite � quite � how can I put this delicately? TOM LUKIWSKI: Old. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: F---ing old, eh? TOM LUKIWSKI: Well, as we say in tour, I may be old, but I�m f---ing A, eh. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And who is this A person? TOM LUKIWSKI: Well, let me put it to you this way. There�s A�s and there�s B�s. The A�s are guys like me, the B�s are homosexual ******s with dirt on their fingernails that transmit diseases. (INAUDIBLE) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, quit talking about Jeff like that. TOM LUKIWSKI: Well, John Bergen and I had a little discussion and I�d like to tell you that that it�s going to be in our campaign literature real soon, watch for it (INAUDIBLE). NOTE: Lukiwski was a provincial Tory organizer at the time. � � � KATHY YOUNG: The Premier versus Haverstick (sic) and � BRAD WALL: Let me tell you something. I watched that in � I watched that in Preeceville. I watched the debate and I�ll tell you this, I never � I never seen Grant Devine � I � I will never � I never voted for Grant Devine. KATHY YOUNG: Why not? BRAD WALL: I never voted for him, but I ... KATHY YOUNG: Why not? BRAD WALL: Before. I see him on TV tonight after Helen fixed me dinner and I tell you I like Grant Devine. Roy Romanow (then Saskatchewan NDP leader) got his head up his ass. I don�t even know how he walks upright with his head so far up his ass and I�ll you ... NOTE: Brad Wall was in his mid 20s and was a ministerial assistant for the PCs party at the time. Kathy Young now is the Saskatchewan Party government�s executive director of communications. |
Let the guy face the constituents in the next election. If he made the remarks last week he'd be much more accountable for them than 16 years ago. He should still apologize but that's it for now. Weve all said things 16 years ago that we wouldnt dare say now im sure. Time and age have a way of reshaping ideals.
I dont agree with the man but i support his right to make himself look like an asshole. Let the voters deal with it!
Mark, I know where you're coming from, but what did you expect Harper to do?
So the guy said something stupid 16 freaking years ago. You never said something you regret?
Like Jay said, if his constituents have an issue with it, he'll deal with it.
It's not like he's killed someone or anything
this man is the personification of the skeletons in the 'closet' of the conservative party.
and now it looks like one came out.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by capo tutti di And out of the females and minorities(race) effected by this. The Gays cry foul the loudest...and i am not knocking preferences, you like the same sex, good, dont hurt anyone great! To me it seems the "race card" that was oh so overplayed and exaggerated in the 90's has now changed hands and became the "gay card". And in anycase race, sex, or sexuality related the tape is almost as old as some people you post on this board. He apologized, he certainly could have changed his views in thought process in the last 16 years especially regarding gays, as the last 2 decades have been very pivotal for that sector of our society. GET OVER IT |
16 years ago? Who cares.
This is not worthy of the spectacle it is becoming. Next.
^^^ the timeframe is relevant...but "who cares" is ridiculous. So if I killed someone 16 years ago, it matters less than if I killed them yesterday? that's just as ridiculous (moreso) than people calling for this guy to be fired.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Yohan Mark, I know where you're coming from, but what did you expect Harper to do? So the guy said something stupid 16 freaking years ago. You never said something you regret? Like Jay said, if his constituents have an issue with it, he'll deal with it. It's not like he's killed someone or anything |
Now you're going to extremes. Comparing killing someone to making a derogative remark is like comparing apples and oranges.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Yohan So the guy said something stupid 16 freaking years ago. You never said something you regret? Like Jay said, if his constituents have an issue with it, he'll deal with it. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by MarkT ^^^ the timeframe is relevant...but "who cares" is ridiculous. So if I killed someone 16 years ago, it matters less than if I killed them yesterday? that's just as ridiculous (moreso) than people calling for this guy to be fired. I expect Harper to display some leadership by publicly chastising the MP in question and offering some proactive options on what the party is doing to weed up this type of attitude. Jeez, the SAME riding's previous MP was removed. WTF is going on in that constitueny in the CPC and what is the party doing there to ensure that the NEXT MP isn't a racist/homophobe/etc? I don't expect him to step down or be fired (as I said in my previous post), because it did occur some time ago and becuase I don't know the guy to know what he has or has not done since then in reference to his views/actions towards guys, women, other ethnic groups, etc. Someone in a subsequent article made a rather good point: While this ocurred was 16 years ago, the MP was 40 years old at the time. This is NOT a case of some kid who said something dumb and has since "grown up". This was a 40 year old man who is likely NOT still "figuring things out". The change between a 16 yr old to age 32 is substantial...40 to 56, not so much, I'll wager. I consider the issue over...particularly with the very public apology issued, to the press and to the House of Commons, that appears genuine. I hope that constituents there will remember this, come election time, while considering his record since then. Harper *could* take some initiative and reach out to the gay community here...but, of course, will not. THAT is why the party continues to live with it's "anti-gay" label (despite it not being valid) and why other parties will always dominate with gay voters. |
^^^ oh get real. Harper is the LEAST democratic PM we've had in our freakin' lifetime. He has centralized power in his office like no other PM in recent history. God, just recently Dan McTeague's motion on RESPs *passed* in the House and what does the CPC do, they "demand" that the Senate turf the bill, but then premptively amend their own budget legislation to defeat implementation.
so you can spare us the "democratic" bullshit because the CPC is interesting in further it's agenda by any means possible...and in the RESP case, by CIRCUMVENTING the democratic process. God, everything they implement is made a "confidence issue". So don't vote how you feel...vote how you feel knowing that if you do, you trigger an election. the only thing more pathetic than that bullying attitude is that no other party has been able to step up yet to put a stop to it.
and this is not "about" the CPC...it's about one person's remarks and the lack of action by their party's leadership in addressing them. I said that inaction on this only serves to foster the anti-gay image that many people ascribe to the party, particularly it's Alliance roots. I didn't say it's a "Conservative issue" as if the party is full of anti-gay members.
It's rather apparent that this image exists...rightly or wrongly is besides the point. If Harper was smart, he'd use this as an opportunity to help dispel/change that image by making an example out of this guy somehow. It doesn't have to be termination...but it should be something more than a mere apology.
and it actually *is* a CPC issue in that riding when the previous MP was fired for similar ridiculousness in suggesting that homosexuality should be made illegal. If I was leading that party, I'd be wondering WTF is going on in that riding!
rants are one thing...but find me the Liberal (or any other MP) who made a similar remark What he said was well beyond a rant, well beyond disagreeing with gay marriage, well beyond an "off-colour remark" and it certainly can't be considered a joke. He's referring to gay men as lesser than straight men, repeating a slur, and then perpetuating a ridiculous steretype. Should someone who felt (feels?) that way have a hand in legislating law in our country? I'm not so sure...
I really would love to hear about what magical epiphany he had between the age of 40 and 56 that shows why this should be dismissed as "nothing" like some people here seem to be suggesting
I wonder how the ladies would be reacting if he said that women were 2nd class citizens, whores, and belonged in the kitchen? or how people would react if he made some derogatory 'n**ger' remark?
whatever...it's the last I'll comment on it. I'm appalled that some people think this is not a big deal...
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