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-- For All You Rotary Lovers - Answer Me This......

For All You Rotary Lovers - Answer Me This......

OK, let's be clear on this: I'm not having a go at those that favour rotary.

That said......

I've just got back from having a stab on a friends rotary DJM800. I own an 800 too (for those that weren't already aware..... ). Now then, mine's got the standard faders, his has the rotary kit. I used the rotary kit tonight and could find no advantage in smooth mixing over me mixing with my 800 and using my trim - which I often do for a smooth fade out, or if the notion takes me to fade in. To me they achieve exactly the same thing. OK, so with a rotary kit you've got something a bit more chunky to hang onto - but that's it.

To my mind, having a a standard linear fader as well as using your trim gives you more flexibility over rotary. You've got the features that rotary brings to the table as well as the luxury of being able to cut if you want to.

Maybe I'm missing something fundamental here - and I'd welcome being enlightened, cos to me at the moment rotary options are about as unnecessary as bottled water.

May I just stress, once more, that I am in no way having a pop at those that favour rotary.

Re: For All You Rotary Lovers - Answer Me This......

Actually, I've just mixed on my 'standard' 800 again, and I've noticed something. If I wanted to fade in from 0 using the rotary method by twisting the trim then I'd not be able to hear the cued track in the phones.

Suppose I've just managed to effectively disagree with myself. Awesome.

Regardless, you get more control over the volume with a rotary knob...

The gain knob adjusts gain, which is the volume of the line before it goes through the rest of the mixer.

it's also more natural for your hand to rotate than pushing the slider

Much more natural movement

Re: For All You Rotary Lovers - Answer Me This......

quote:

Originally posted by Jarvmeister OK, let's be clear on this: I'm not having a go at those that favour rotary. That said...... I've just got back from having a stab on a friends rotary DJM800. I own an 800 too (for those that weren't already aware..... ). Now then, mine's got the standard faders, his has the rotary kit. I used the rotary kit tonight and could find no advantage in smooth mixing over me mixing with my 800 and using my trim - which I often do for a smooth fade out, or if the notion takes me to fade in. To me they achieve exactly the same thing. OK, so with a rotary kit you've got something a bit more chunky to hang onto - but that's it. To my mind, having a a standard linear fader as well as using your trim gives you more flexibility over rotary. You've got the features that rotary brings to the table as well as the luxury of being able to cut if you want to. Maybe I'm missing something fundamental here - and I'd welcome being enlightened, cos to me at the moment rotary options are about as unnecessary as bottled water. May I just stress, once more, that I am in no way having a pop at those that favour rotary.

I use the trim exclusively on non-rotary mixers. You must admit is affords less accuracy and precision than a nice chunky rotary fader. So for myself I would love a rotary mixer. But you're right I make do by using the trim and the linear faders as you describe.

Re: Re: For All You Rotary Lovers - Answer Me This......

quote:

Originally posted by Jarvmeister Actually, I've just mixed on my 'standard' 800 again, and I've noticed something. If I wanted to fade in from 0 using the rotary method by twisting the trim then I'd not be able to hear the cued track in the phones. Suppose I've just managed to effectively disagree with myself. Awesome.

With rotaries you want most of your mixing to be between 6 and 8.

quote:

Originally posted by Tony Morello it's also more natural for your hand to rotate than pushing the slider

I disagree.

To my natural instincts, a slider seems far more "right". When it's in the "up" position, the volume will be high, whereas with rotary I find that my mind doesn't naturally associate something turning on it's own axis as "up" and "down" the way a moving fader does.

Re: Re: Re: For All You Rotary Lovers - Answer Me This......

quote:

Originally posted by Zild With rotaries you want most of your mixing to be between 6 and 8.

There is no way to say that. Every sound system is different.

i got a rotary mixer because i think it is much smoother to mix with one. i never liked faders, they're just too easy to move too much accidentally. and i don't like using the gains to mix with as, like you said in your second post, it fucks up the cueing.
i don't really feel like i need linear faders even when bringing something in fast as rotary knobs can be turned quite fast or then you can use the line/phono switches to cut something in.

quote:

Originally posted by skip .....then you can use the line/phono switches to cut something in.

Not sure that would give me the control I get from faders, it's to sharp.

But I've been thinking. If you had 2 CDJ1000s which have a phono and digital out, with a 4 channel mixer like the 800 for example, if you had a hybrid rotary on channels 1 and 2 and linear on 3 and 4 you could get the best of both worlds. You hook the digital of CDJ1 to channel 1 and the phono to channel 3. And follow the same process for the second CDJ to channel 2 and 4.

It's not going to happen though is it?!

quote:

Originally posted by Jarvmeister Not sure that would give me the control I get from faders, it's to sharp.

yes, it is very sharp (can't get any sharper than that really), but sometimes that's what i need at least. if i need something less sharp i'll just twist the knob really fast. but i do agree, that for cutting and tricks etc. linear faders are better. i just prefer rotary as i don't really cut much or do any fancy tricks, i just like to mix as smooth as possible most of the time.

Re: Re: Re: Re: For All You Rotary Lovers - Answer Me This......

Actually he's right, at least with the classic style rotaries (Bozak, Urei, Rane). The gain structure of these mixers is designed that they sound best when you leave bit of headroom and max out around 6-8.

And in the case of a Urei or Bozak, you don't have gain control... so the headroom you leave yourself IS the gain (if you need it).

quote:

Originally posted by Progress Ent. There is no way to say that. Every sound system is different.

The sound of the mixer doesn't change no matter what kind it is based on the gain. All that changes is the intensity of the signal. It's the sound system that distorts based on how much it can handle.

You need to do some more research...

quote:

Originally posted by Progress Ent. The sound of the mixer doesn't change no matter what kind it is based on the gain. All that changes is the intensity of the signal. It's the sound system that distorts based on how much it can handle.

Re: Re: For All You Rotary Lovers - Answer Me This......

quote:

Originally posted by Jarvmeister Actually, I've just mixed on my 'standard' 800 again, and I've noticed something. If I wanted to fade in from 0 using the rotary method by twisting the trim then I'd not be able to hear the cued track in the phones. Suppose I've just managed to effectively disagree with myself. Awesome.

parad0x

quote:

Originally posted by Jarvmeister Not sure that would give me the control I get from faders, it's to sharp. But I've been thinking. If you had 2 CDJ1000s which have a phono and digital out, with a 4 channel mixer like the 800 for example, if you had a hybrid rotary on channels 1 and 2 and linear on 3 and 4 you could get the best of both worlds. You hook the digital of CDJ1 to channel 1 and the phono to channel 3. And follow the same process for the second CDJ to channel 2 and 4. It's not going to happen though is it?!

phono out on a cdj? anyway, you could split the output. The rotary kits on djms could easily be put in 2 channels and the other 2 left linear, all you'd need is to get any metal working shop to make you a face plate.

quote:

Originally posted by tubby phono out on a cdj? anyway, you could split the output. The rotary kits on djms could easily be put in 2 channels and the other 2 left linear, all you'd need is to get any metal working shop to make you a face plate.

Hmmm, I'd rather just buy one off the shelf, and even then it's not a huge priority.

Oooops! I meant RCA, not phono.

Gains aren't really designed for performing the mix with. Not necessarily saying you can't use them to fade in/out but there are a lot of advantages to using that to set the overall level, so that when your fader (or channel rotary knob) is at max the track plays at the right level, consistent with other tracks in your set. Unless you've got really good monitors, it can be hard to judge what level the right level is when mixing a tune in.

So my advice is always to set the gain before you start mixing at track in, then do all other levels on the faders/rotaries. Using the gain to fade out isn't such an issue as you don't need to 'remember' where it was after that, but generally (not always, but generally) using the gain to fade in isn't particularly good plan.

rotary mixers suck ass. try this you wanna have smooth transitions then center the crossfader and then adjust the volume or fade in the tracks. if you spin trance and want to have something really freaking smooth get a scratch mixer, it may not have effects but the volume controls are not so gradual. in other words the second you adjust the volume it literally jumps halfway up in volume. I used to make some of the smoothest mixtaps ever heard using a scratch mixer and using my ears and sometimes adjusting the gain so that it would be perfectly mixed. I had some whitelabels not mastered right and would sometimes have to boost it up a bit.

Re: Re: Re: Re: For All You Rotary Lovers - Answer Me This......

quote:

Originally posted by Progress Ent. There is no way to say that. Every sound system is different.

It doesn't have anything to do with the sound system. It has to do with the way the gain structure is setup on those older mixers.

Re: Re: Re: For All You Rotary Lovers - Answer Me This......

quote:

Originally posted by nchs09 parad0x

That's why you mix between 6 and 8. You can still hear the music since your headphones have independent volume control, but it isn't loud enough to clip the gain on the master channel. Or you could go a little lower as long as it doesn't clip the master channel. Use your ears and the VU meter. Also turn down the headphone volume periodically after turning the gain up so you don't go deaf.

quote:

Originally posted by abletonlive05 rotary mixers suck ass. try this you wanna have smooth transitions then center the crossfader and then adjust the volume or fade in the tracks. if you spin trance and want to have something really freaking smooth get a scratch mixer, it may not have effects but the volume controls are not so gradual. in other words the second you adjust the volume it literally jumps halfway up in volume. I used to make some of the smoothest mixtaps ever heard using a scratch mixer and using my ears and sometimes adjusting the gain so that it would be perfectly mixed. I had some whitelabels not mastered right and would sometimes have to boost it up a bit.

so basically
worse = better
in your opinion?

quote:

Originally posted by skip so basically worse = better in your opinion?

depends on taste, some mixers are going to take some getting used to.

what I would look for in a mixer -
1) effects
a) filter sweep
b) autopan
c) flange

2) channels - two channels is fine with me

3) make sure the changes that you make to the EQ are not reflected in the headphones - this sucks, great for a novice DJ because they can think things blend better.

quote:

Originally posted by Beat Blog I disagree. To my natural instincts, a slider seems far more "right". When it's in the "up" position, the volume will be high, whereas with rotary I find that my mind doesn't naturally associate something turning on it's own axis as "up" and "down" the way a moving fader does.

i wasn't stating an opinion, it's an actual fact of human physiology

it's more natural and easier for the body to rotate the wrist than it is for your entire arm and shoulder to get into the deal and move the slider

granted, it doesn't take a whole lot of effort to begin with, but when you look at the muscle groups involved, essentially you can be more precise with less effort

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