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Electrohouse and minimal - decide for once - use their potential or kill them off

I saw this in another thread...

quote:

Originally posted by whiskers Subgenre trends come and go. Right now it's Electro House and Minimal

I also saw that Fabric 20 thread...

And it got me thinking. How on earth are these trends still going on, and how shit they have become compared to how they started!

Electrohouse when it started (around late 2004/early 2005) was fucking awesome. Infusion - Better World (Winx Interpretation). Alter Ego - Rocker. Spektrum - Kinda New (Tiefschwarz Remix) and the similar records Sasha played at the time. Zabiela's frenetic robotic selections. Lawler's big room dancefloor-killing music. Sander Kleinenberg's slightly cheesy but fun music. Same with Fanciulli. Prydz did something slightly different, yet it was awesomeness.

And then it got all shit. I think it all started with Roman Flugel - Gehts Noch. I am guilty of dancing like hell when it came out, but it suddenly got all mega popular, all the commercial jocks started playing it and it attracted lots of attention from the cheese crowd. And for the wrong reasons! Suddenly it all become a bleeps-fest, a fart bassline fest, with some corny melodies as the main feature. Sometimes even with nonsense mainstream vocals, that Citroen commercial track with some dude singing "love don't let me go" is a perfect example.

And in the underground, people ran out of ideas at the same time. Sasha abandoned it and went into something even shittier than mainstream electrohouse, some of the most boring progressive I ever heard, and I was a proghead. Zabiela lost form, stopped being as awesome while paired with Fanciulli, and started playing way too much Deadmau5 nonsense. Prydz abandoned the early direction of the Pryda label and basically started producing shit. Awesomely polished and produced shit, but shit. And now it seems like the attention of everybody is to that mouse-headed guy, who now is on the playlist of every trancefag. Bad sign!

Minimal first came to my attention thanks to this compilation ---> http://www.discogs.com/release/460852 <--- , where it was used as very nice bridge between tracks here and there. Just a little edge to spice things up. Yet, out of nowhere, this little nice gimmick got blown out of proportion. Now every fucking DJ in every fucking genre plays minimal, tries to play minimal, says they're playing minimal, or rapes minimal. Trance dj's play the shittiest loops ever, mixed together or on top of unicorn-laser-shit, and the guy who makes them gets all popular and is hyped beyond belief (hint: ex Deep Dish member). What the hell is this crap?

I admit, I don't really know what I'm talking about. I still don't know what exactly is minimal, and my knowledge about its history can be resumed to: there was a track called Spastik a long time ago, and there's some german dudes who have been playing it for a long time. That's it. I also don't know if my perceptions about this are entirely correct, since I don't go out that often - and this island's scene, while it can reflect some trends, isn't the capital of electronic music neither.

Yet, this is so frustrating. Two things that started pretty damn nice and fresh. And within 1 or 2 years, not to say months, they were commercialized and exploited up to an absurd point. They didn't even have time to show their full potential, basically it was all ruined it before there was even more than 20 decent tunes out there. So how's it going to be, is there still a chance to unlock the potential of these trends, or is it just going to keep dying a slow death? And if it's just going to keep this way, how much longer do we have to put up with this nonsense?

I can already see tech-house being ruined as the next trend.

Sorry for the long, slightly disconnected rant, and sorry if I offended anyone named in this post... don't take it personal. I love you guys for making music, or at least for trying.

Throughout all of history music genres have their high and low points which is a varied point in time for each individual.

How have people not figured this out by now?

Not saying I disagree with you on many of your points, but I'm just saying... everything has its fun point. I've experienced it with trance, electro-house, and non electronic genre's as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Ek0nomik Throughout all of history music genres have their high and low points which is a varied point in time for each individual. How have people not figured this out by now?

Of course.

What I'm stating is that these trends, or at least electrohouse specifically, had a very short "high" and now seems to be having a very long "low".

Which seems strange to me.

Re: Electrohouse and minimal - decide for once - use their potential or kill them off

quote:

Originally posted by noikeee I saw this in another thread... I also saw that Fabric 20 thread... And it got me thinking. How on earth are these trends still going on, and how shit they have become compared to how they started! Electrohouse when it started (around late 2004/early 2005) was fucking awesome. Infusion - Better World (Winx Interpretation). Alter Ego - Rocker. Spektrum - Kinda New (Tiefschwarz Remix) and the similar records Sasha played at the time. Zabiela's frenetic robotic selections. Lawler's big room dancefloor-killing music. Sander Kleinenberg's slightly cheesy but fun music. Same with Fanciulli. Prydz did something slightly different, yet it was awesomeness. And then it got all shit. I think it all started with Roman Flugel - Gehts Noch. I am guilty of dancing like hell when it came out, but it suddenly got all mega popular, all the commercial jocks started playing it and it attracted lots of attention from the cheese crowd. And for the wrong reasons! Suddenly it all become a bleeps-fest, a fart bassline fest, with some corny melodies as the main feature. Sometimes even with nonsense mainstream vocals, that Citroen commercial track with some dude singing "love don't let me go" is a perfect example. And in the underground, people ran out of ideas at the same time. Sasha abandoned it and went into something even shittier than mainstream electrohouse, some of the most boring progressive I ever heard, and I was a proghead. Zabiela lost form, stopped being as awesome while paired with Fanciulli, and started playing way too much Deadmau5 nonsense. Prydz abandoned the early direction of the Pryda label and basically started producing shit. Awesomely polished and produced shit, but shit. And now it seems like the attention of everybody is to that mouse-headed guy, who now is on the playlist of every trancefag. Bad sign! Minimal first came to my attention thanks to this compilation ---> http://www.discogs.com/release/460852 <--- , where it was used as very nice bridge between tracks here and there. Just a little edge to spice things up. Yet, out of nowhere, this little nice gimmick got blown out of proportion. Now every fucking DJ in every fucking genre plays minimal, tries to play minimal, says they're playing minimal, or rapes minimal. Trance dj's play the shittiest loops ever, mixed together or on top of unicorn-laser-shit, and the guy who makes them gets all popular and is hyped beyond belief (hint: ex Deep Dish member). What the hell is this crap? I admit, I don't really know what I'm talking about. I still don't know what exactly is minimal, and my knowledge about its history can be resumed to: there was a track called Spastik a long time ago, and there's some german dudes who have been playing it for a long time. That's it. I also don't know if my perceptions about this are entirely correct, since I don't go out that often - and this island's scene, while it can reflect some trends, isn't the capital of electronic music neither. Yet, this is so frustrating. Two things that started pretty damn nice and fresh. And within 1 or 2 years, not to say months, they were commercialized and exploited up to an absurd point. They didn't even have time to show their full potential, basically it was all ruined it before there was even more than 20 decent tunes out there. So how's it going to be, is there still a chance to unlock the potential of these trends, or is it just going to keep dying a slow death? And if it's just going to keep this way, how much longer do we have to put up with this nonsense? I can already see tech-house being ruined as the next trend. Sorry for the long, slightly disconnected rant, and sorry if I offended anyone named in this post... don't take it personal. I love you guys for making music, or at least for trying.

you know that roman flugel is one half of alter ego, right?

he who giveth, taketh away

they turn shit as soon as they become generic, as in codified as a genre, and not about the sound and arrangement or concept of the sound or arrangement

quote:

Originally posted by noikeee Of course. What I'm stating is that these trends, or at least electrohouse specifically, had a very short "high" and now seems to be having a very long "low". Which seems strange to me.

I can't speak for some of what you wrote, but I can agree with you on Zabiela. I have found him to be really boring lately. In 2005 he had some awesome stuff, mashing in movie clips with tunes like Aphex Twin - Windowlicker. I remember being obsessed with his live sets, but now I find them to be really monotonous.

quote:

Originally posted by Ek0nomik I can't speak for some of what you wrote, but I can agree with you on Zabiela. I have found him to be really boring lately. In 2005 he had some awesome stuff, mashing in movie clips with tunes like Aphex Twin - Windowlicker. I remember being obsessed with his live sets, but now I find them to be really monotonous.

That's exactly what I'm talking about, there was a couple of months in 2004-2005 where every liveset of him was absolutely brilliant. Then it started losing its magic, and I rarely follow him anymore.

But I know how judging livesets sitting at home in front of the PC and speakers isn't exactly fair, those things are made for the club... I'll say it once again: I'm still pissed I missed Zabiela when he came over here for a club night at that time.

The highs and lows will always self correct and make a new middle. In the meantime it is your duty to discover new music and listen to whats enjoyable to you, there is no shortage of genre's or music.

quote:

Originally posted by noikeee That's exactly what I'm talking about, there was a couple of months in 2004-2005 where every liveset of him was absolutely brilliant. Then it started losing its magic, and I rarely follow him anymore. But I know how judging livesets sitting at home in front of the PC and speakers isn't exactly fair, those things are made for the club... I'll say it once again: I'm still pissed I missed Zabiela when he came over here for a club night at that time.

True, I will be turning 21 this Summer and I know I see Zabiela pop up at Vision, Chicago from time to time, so I plan on making it a mission to see him next time he's around to get a feel of him live.

Speaking of the good ol' days... his Essential Mix from 2004 and when he was a guest on John Digweed's Kiss100 show in 2005... MmMmM... absolutely mint!

What the hell does Fabric 20 have to do with electro or minimal?

I would of thought that labeling Fabric 20 as electro/minimal would be spot on.

Anyway, electro and minimal are two genres that need to be fucked right off in the trance/progressive scene.

Noikeee - electrohouse was never awesome at any time. It is cheesy as hell and was obviously the platform for launching all those boring MOS compilations from 2004 to present.

I can't say the same for tech house though. It has been around since the mid nineties and yes it has been refined due to the sudden influx since last year or so but I don't see it to be completely ruined. As long The Timewriter and stuff of the Plastic City label keep producing quality tracks then "real" tech house won't follow the demise of other genres by losing their cutting edge.

quote:

Originally posted by Stanza I would of thought that labeling Fabric 20 as electro/minimal would be spot on. Anyway, electro and minimal are two genres that need to be fucked right off in the trance/progressive scene. Noikeee - electrohouse was never awesome at any time. It is cheesy as hell and was obviously the platform for launching all those boring MOS compilations from 2004 to present. I can't say the same for tech house though. It has been around since the mid nineties and yes it has been refined due to the sudden influx since last year or so but I don't see it to be completely ruined. As long The Timewriter and stuff of the Plastic City label keep producing quality tracks then "real" tech house won't follow the demise of other genres by losing their cutting edge.

I have only listened to Robert Hood's Fabric, but that was definitely Techno.

Also, I haven't listened to MOS Comp's in ages because I always found them to be shit, but they were definitely House back in the early 2000's.

Electro and Minimal are not part of the Trance/Prog scene.

I agree with you to some extent. Electro was banging back in the days but then too many DJs picked it up and started playing it at clubs. Minimal on the other hand is nothing that woken my attention....I don't like it .

Tech on the other hand is awesome and it looks like not being too stereotype.....yet.

Oh, and there are still good electro-house tracks out there...you just have to find em.

Re: Electrohouse and minimal - decide for once - use their potential or kill them off

quote:

Originally posted by noikeee Sasha abandoned it and went into something even shittier than mainstream electrohouse, some of the most boring progressive I ever heard, and I was a proghead.

What are you talking about? Sasha stopped playing Progressive=House by the end of 2003. He was already turning to shit by 2003, but once he jumped on the Electro-Shithouse bandwagon it was pretty much the end of him. Once he stopped playing Electro-House he immediately jumped on the Mnml/Tech House bandwagon.

Re: Electrohouse and minimal - decide for once - use their potential or kill them off

quote:

Originally posted by noikeee They didn't even have time to show their full potential, basically it was all ruined it before there was even more than 20 decent tunes out there.

Because they showed their potential before they went big. You can't expect music go better once it got massively popular. It all goes downhill from there.

I don't know about electro-house, but as for minimal, it's past really is much more interesting than it's present. There was much more experimentation going on, and the genre wasn't full of people trying to make money out of what's currently hot.

Check out this: http://www.discogs.com/release/34167 for example. Pure aural orgasms, you don't hear stuff like that anymore.

Re: Re: Electrohouse and minimal - decide for once - use their potential or kill them

quote:

Originally posted by paulandrews Check out this: http://www.discogs.com/release/34167 for example. Pure aural orgasms, you don't hear stuff like that anymore.

I dunno, I guess I had to have listened to it when it first came out to appreciate it or something. It was definitely more minimal than the stuff being released now, but perhaps it was a little too minimal. :P

btw, did you ever check out scuba's new album?

Everything has a cycle, it's just that you can't foresee how long that cycle will last.

New amazing music pops up, it gets popular, becomes commercialised and then the majority of it turns to shit. Not to say all of it turns to shit but with an influx of copy cat productions, the good productions get drowned out.

Then you get the people who were there at the peak and they become jaded, new people think it's amazing because they don't know better, they argue and the cycle continues.

A new trend pops up again and so on. Rinse and repeat.

quote:

Originally posted by Clovis What the hell does Fabric 20 have to do with electro or minimal?

it had that remix of Infusion

Re: Re: Electrohouse and minimal - decide for once - use their potential or kill them

quote:

Originally posted by Nostalgic What are you talking about? Sasha stopped playing Progressive=House by the end of 2003. He was already turning to shit by 2003, but once he jumped on the Electro-Shithouse bandwagon it was pretty much the end of him. Once he stopped playing Electro-House he immediately jumped on the Mnml/Tech House bandwagon.

Well, then I guess I'm talking about when he jumped to that bandwagon. I remember that Fundacion, Animacion or whatever the hell it was called, being boring as hell.

I can definetly see my self as a "newcomer" to electrohouse, and I'm really enjoying it. Lost interest in music a few years back and recently came back.

Artists like Key 900 and Kid Dub is what's been played the most these days. Kid Dub i understand has the same problem as Deadmau5 with tracks sounding the same, and can see where you guys are with the genre being overproduced. But still, i manage to find nuggets of gold from time to time.

But you guys seem really jaded, as with my other friends who listen to edm, so you wanna give me some more tips from the time the genre peaked?

quote:

Originally posted by Ek0nomik Throughout all of history music genres have their high and low points which is a varied point in time for each individual. How have people not figured this out by now?

DISCO SUCKS.

I saw this thread and I thought, "wow, someone finally brings up THE two genres". I have to say that I do rag on minimal and electro house, BUT only because everyone and their grandma is into it, thinking it's THE shit, making a lot of tunes just because it's popular (at least that's what it seems like), and oversaturating the market with formulaic productions.

THAT is the problem. There's a cornucopia of great productions, but the quality of so much of what I heard before I took a fighting stance with the two genres is exactly why I started disliking them. Take Julian Jeweil - Air Conditionn�, this is an example of minimal that's a destroyer of worlds. There are great electrohouse tunes and I'm into dropping an electrohouse/minimal tune here and there myself.

Like I said, subgenres come and go - before electrohouse and minimal there was Markus Schulz with hordes of followers who thought they were cool because they were listening to progressive. I'm a Markus Schulz follower myself, I like playing the dreamy, fluffy, slow tracks, but I still think at some point the genre was oversaturated and there was just too much similar, generic stuff being pumped out.

Then, there's still Armin, who remained popular with his style and whose ASOT is responsible for bringing many mainstream kids into the genre, which is both a good and a bad thing.

It's all about being on the right bandwagon at the right time.

quote:

Originally posted by Beat Blog DISCO SUCKS.

It's coming back.

quote:

Originally posted by whiskers BUT only because everyone and their grandma is into it, thinking it's THE shit, making a lot of tunes just because it's popular (at least that's what it seems like), and oversaturating the market with formulaic productions.

That sounds familiar.

quote:

Originally posted by paulandrews It's coming back.

Apparently so.

"Cosmic Disco" is the reincarnation, if you believe my local mainstream paper.

It's pitched at 106 BPM apparently, no more, no less.

Re: Re: Re: Electrohouse and minimal - decide for once - use their potential or kill

quote:

Originally posted by noikeee Well, then I guess I'm talking about when he jumped to that bandwagon. I remember that Fundacion, Animacion or whatever the hell it was called, being boring as hell.

I dont really consider that electro. And its pretty much the ONLY track on there that is remotely electro or minimal. Maybe the Angel Alanis tune...

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