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socialized medicine

I would like to hear from people who live in countries who have socialized medicine. Do you like the program and think it works. I myself live in country where medicine cost a damn arm and a leg. I have not had medical insurance for over 10 years and it sucks.

yes it works. but its expensive for the state and often the government don't do enough to maintain the system (or so some argue).

its certainly way fucking better than the system in the US that's for sure.

What he said. We have it, it works. Woudnt want to be without it.

While there are some terrible examples of countries running social medication systems they should not be considered as standard practice.


I live in a country where I have no waiting lists, everything is taken care and paid for when I go to the pharmacy. I have a 1300 eur/month medication bill ... 100% reimbursement, but standard medication otherwise is reimbursed 90% in my region or 70% in the rest of the country( you can get a private medical insurance to help cover the uncovered costs ).

The main issue for the gov is the cost which has gone uncontrolled for so long. Also little to no plans on saving money, controlling costs etc, which explains for numerous amounts of "fraud" ( not in the real sense, just prescribed medication that was too expensive and too powerful for what was needed etc ).
Today it's generic meds if there exists one or your bill isn't paid. Have to see your GP for a referal before seeing a specialized doctor the first time or else you get to pay the whole bill.



The biggest issue with medication in the US is that the costs are uncontrolled. No gov oversight of costs of medication. Everybody does whatever they want and the patient is just a sucker of a customer.

It's not perfect, it's got it's problems, but I wouldn't want to live without it.

in its current form around the world i can not stand it. i think that socialized medicine needs total reform. it mostly has a lot of problems with the way in which you must seek health care, or when different procedures are more preventative than required, you must wait till they are required. NHS (britains National Health care System) is a great example of the major problems that arise. you SHOULD get a double bypass now to prevent complications later, but NHS denies your claim till its required. well by the time its required, you need a quintuple bypass. how is that even good? the definition of "health care" is to PREVENT things to keep costs lower in the long run! when you have to wait till its imminent that you need something, thats not helping. its making things worse. honestly, yeah medicine in the US is expensive, and what not, but i prefer it. i dont have healthcare right now, which yeah sucks, but oh well. once im employed ill have it again.

the way health care could be much better and more effective, imho, is by making the socialized medicine only do the lower end stuff. it doesnt deal with any serious stuff. just commom colds, pains, and all that shit. then you have your private health care that would cover all the major stuff. thats just my opinion.

don't they have 24 hour free clinics out in your neck?

quote:

Originally posted by gehzumteufel

Incorrect actually. The more serious the more likely it is to get done. I've had ops for fairly minor stuff all free. And fairly quickly.

You do get what we call the "post code lottery" i.e. some places are way better than others though.

But if you want to go private or get insurance to speed anything up you can. So it's fair enough.

Only problem is the new introduction of targets. Now huge amount of time and money is wasted just to meet them.

There is no perfect health care system.

In the US it's expensive, and not everyone can afford it currently, but as long as you have insurance, you get the care you want, when you need it (over-simplification, I know). And contrary to popular belief, no one dies because they don't have insurance. If you have an acute issue and go the hospital, you will be treated, regardless of whether you ever pay.

In most socialized countries, everyone has some form of basic healthcare, but that usually comes along with longer waiting times and the possibility of having treatments delayed or denied due to resource constraints. As in the US, no one dies because of these constraints because acute concerns get priority.

So, you have to pick your poison; pay for health care via taxes and everyone gets it, but most likely you're going to have delays in care and aspects of care dictated by the government. Or, you can have expensive health insurance like in the US, but you'll get better access while leaving some uninsured. The answer is probably somewhere in the middle, maybe like Australia, where you have a two-tiered system. The problem with two-tiered systems is then you generally establish two tiers of health quality where those using government health care suffer.

Ideologically socialized medicine is great, but it has pitfalls just like private insurance does.

Well I actually like the concept that fat bastards who eat a lot of crap and smoke have to pay more as they are more likely to use it.

But the key point is kids. They have no choice they are born into their family. Ok the family is intimately responsible but... I want every sick kid in my country to get the same help if possible. And I'm prepared to pay for it.

The constitution says the right to life, liberty, and happiness are self-evident. Wouldn't health be included in life or at least happiness?

quote:

Originally posted by Dervish Well I actually like the concept that fat bastards who eat a lot of crap and smoke have to pay more as they are more likely to use it. But the key point is kids. They have no choice they are born into their family. Ok the family is intimately responsible but... I want every sick kid in my country to get the same help if possible. And I'm prepared to pay for it.

Bravo.

I'm in favor of socialized health insurance.

Whether the medical care itself should be socialized (i.e. having the government run hospitals and regulate medical practices) is another issue, although some people might argue that socializing the costs will inevitably lead to government control of medical practices.

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Originally posted by Krypton The constitution says the right to life, liberty, and happiness are self-evident. Wouldn't health be included in life or at least happiness?

The Constitution doesn't include a "right to happiness," but a right to pursue happiness. Pretty big difference...

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton The constitution says the right to life, liberty, and happiness are self-evident. Wouldn't health be included in life or at least happiness?

Those are all rights to things that can't be taken away (so-called "negative rights"). The "life" part means that the government can't come and kill you. Since health care is a provided service, you'd have to argue if health care is an entitlement, not a right...at least in terms of the rights you listed.

Well anyways, our government will do what's best for the insurance companies, so us Americans shouldn't count on getting any help any time soon. Especially when the current regime cares more about the Green Zone than taking care of domestic issues. They just throw money at problems. Notice how when the economy imploded, the government went on a spending spree with tax payer rebates, corporate bailouts, and liquidity infusions. That'll do wonders for an already falling dollar...

Health care in America? Don't count on it....

I'm just curious which country was the first to have socialized medicine?

quote:

Originally posted by Dervish But the key point is kids. They have no choice they are born into their family. Ok the family is intimately responsible but... I want every sick kid in my country to get the same help if possible. And I'm prepared to pay for it.

the common thought, which coincidentally, happens to be a total farce, is that the really poor families and their children have no healthcare. the US has a thing called "Healthy Families." this program is for the poor. it gives them health care they otherwise would not be able to afford. i can attest to the fact that it works. i am a former welfare child. our family was on it for 7 years. health care was provided along with financial help. so really, your worry, is perpetuated by uneducated idiots that try to make it out like our system is total shit.

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Well anyways, our government will do what's best for the insurance companies, so us Americans shouldn't count on getting any help any time soon. Especially when the current regime cares more about the Green Zone than taking care of domestic issues. They just throw money at problems. Notice how when the economy imploded, the government went on a spending spree with tax payer rebates, corporate bailouts, and liquidity infusions. That'll do wonders for an already falling dollar... Health care in America? Don't count on it....

Our government will continue to do what's best for itself, which is nothing. They're in a horrific situation at the moment, and the easiest thing is to do nothing and hope people continue to blame health care problems on doctors, insurers, hospitals, etc.

The problem is the demand for health care is high, and is only getting higher. Our government already spends more than any other on the health of its citizens and making health care "free" will not decrease that cost. Meeting those demands under a socialized system will be extremely expensive for the government...and it knows that. So...how do you limit that demand? You can continue on the system we have, where price is a limiting factor, or you can limit health care resources so supply becomes a limiting factor. Step one is already in place, as we can see with the amount of uninsured in the US and the second step is as well as a full 1/3rd of all US hospitals lose money each year and are expected to close within the next 5-10 years.

I'm not trying to paint a bleak picture, just reality. There is basically no acceptable way to curtail an unending and expensive demand for health care, you can affect supply or increase costs to lower demand, but both make people upset. Doing nothing is the best way the government can accomplish both those goals by not acting directly or spending money.

quote:

Originally posted by gehzumteufel the common thought, which coincidentally, happens to be a total farce, is that the really poor families and their children have no healthcare. the US has a thing called "Healthy Families." this program is for the poor. it gives them health care they otherwise would not be able to afford. i can attest to the fact that it works. i am a former welfare child. our family was on it for 7 years. health care was provided along with financial help. so really, your worry, is perpetuated by uneducated idiots that try to make it out like our system is total shit.

I don't think you've heard of the folks who have had to declare bankruptcy over medical bills, huh?

quote:

Originally posted by gehzumteufel the common thought, which coincidentally, happens to be a total farce, is that the really poor families and their children have no healthcare. the US has a thing called "Healthy Families." this program is for the poor. it gives them health care they otherwise would not be able to afford. i can attest to the fact that it works.

A good example of how socializing the costs of healthcare can help people.

quote:

Originally posted by gehzumteufel the common thought, which coincidentally, happens to be a total farce, is that the really poor families and their children have no healthcare. the US has a thing called "Healthy Families." this program is for the poor. it gives them health care they otherwise would not be able to afford. i can attest to the fact that it works. i am a former welfare child. our family was on it for 7 years. health care was provided along with financial help. so really, your worry, is perpetuated by uneducated idiots that try to make it out like our system is total shit.

Is it free though? Or just "low cost"?

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles The Constitution doesn't include a "right to happiness," but a right to pursue happiness. Pretty big difference...

Well, there's that, and there's the small issue of that being from the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution.

True.

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles A good example of how socializing the costs of healthcare can help people.

yeah. overall im not totally against socialized health care, but at the same time i am. there is no happy medium is why im mostly against it.

quote:

Originally posted by Dervish Is it free though? Or just "low cost"?

to the poor, it is free. we never paid a dime while on it.

Once I'm finished with my degree here in the states I'm going to be moving to Florence, Italy for gemology school. If I'm lucky and can find a job in Italy, or anywhere else in Europe, then I'm going to stay. Europe gets more vacation time, free medical care, and a society that is not totally fucking nuts like ours. How do you become a citizen or be allowed to stay and work in another country. I would love to live in Siena for a while. I love that city.

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