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How to innovate trance...?

I've been reading and discussing about the so called shite state of current trance.
I admit, there's much shit out there even if there are some gems.
Personal tastes aside, what should future tracks bring to refresh and renew the genre and scene?

Vibrasphere
Asura

and that's about the extent of my knowledge regarding new and "innovative" trance artists.

Re: How to innovate trance...?

quote:

Originally posted by Barachem Personal tastes aside, what should future tracks bring to refresh and renew the genre and scene?

Hell if I know. Usually whenever something new and fresh crops up, it's the least expected (hence being 'new' and 'fresh').

Re: How to innovate trance...?

quote:

Originally posted by Barachem Personal tastes aside, what should future tracks bring to refresh and renew the genre and scene?

emotion.


if i made music, i'd try to base it on my emotions and not think about how it should sound etc.
nowadays producers seem to think like this:
"let's make a track that goes like this and sounds like this"

i'd like them not to think at all, but rather try to put what they feel in to the sequencer (or whatever the fuck they use to make music) and make the tracks based on that.

Some interesting trance albums released in the last year or so. I would not say there is too much innovative going on though, they mostly just stick out by not being absolutely terrible.

Aril Brikha - Ex Machina (some trance elements)
Asura - Life Squared
Beetseekers - Out Of The Blue Moon
Cape Town - Aviateur
Human Blue - Base Basket Buffet
Miika Kuisma - Sententia
M.I.K.E. - Moving On In Life
Orkidea - Metaverse
Planisphere - Solarism
Progression - Different Day Different Light
Solar Fields - EarthShine
Vibrasphere - Exploring The Tributaries

Re: Re: How to innovate trance...?

quote:

Originally posted by skip emotion. if i made music, i'd try to base it on my emotions and not think about how it should sound etc. nowadays producers seem to think like this: "let's make a track that goes like this and sounds like this" i'd like them not to think at all, but rather try to put what they feel in to the sequencer (or whatever the fuck they use to make music) and make the tracks based on that.

I don't think that's quite true.


I'm sure that a lot of these trance producers produce for emotions as well. Trance emotions are (limited to) 'banging', 'uplifting/euphoric', 'chill/balearic', etc

When they start making tracks I'm sure they know they want to make an uplifting track, or a chill track, or a banging track. The problem is that they are just really unoriginal and maybe also campy

Ticon - Zero Six After
This album is a great take on trance music. I've heard few trance albums as innovative as this one.

First of all, the sound must get rid of supersaws, cliche lead-lines and anthemic end-of-summer melodies, large breaks and overproduction. Enough is enough! I took a listen to these new tracks my Mike Nichol and Kamil Polner, and i couldn't distinquish one melodic element from another. Its like a maelstrom of ultra-reverbarated saw elements which in the end sound disturbing and unpleasant to the ear. Not to mention the trance-lead by numbers. BPMs sould also decrease. Now of course, you have this slower trance, proggier, "Anjuna-Deep" style or whatever, and this is boring as hell, the melodies are IMO cliche and uninspired.

Trance should drop all these elements and rediscover itself. And this probably doesn't only go to Trance, but to Progressive and Techno and House and generally, to the majority of current EDM. Its just that Trance has become the most formulaic of the lot, causing the most boredom and hate!



Yes, anthem trance was good and i'll personally remember the end-of-90s "Epic" sound with Solar Stone, Chicane, Katcha, Lost Tribe, Paul Van Dyk, Kamaya Painters, Airwave, Push etc...those were great sutff and they'll be remembered, the great epic, lush sound of the end-of 90s. But, you know, now its 2008...its been 10 years since this stuff were at their peak. Its stupid to still try to make something similar to that older stuff just because it works at the dance-floor. Not only you currently produce a low-quality product by using once-great elements in a generic way, (at times just for the puspose of selling), you also "distort" the sound's past, giving the impression that the music was always shit, and that you were also stupid for listening.


My opinion is drop the BPMs, give trance its lost early-90s rhythm. Back in that era, the rhythms were integrated with the melodies. They were not just providing the fast, generic backbone of the track. Furthermore, produce melodies with more types of synth-sounds rather than the typical saw-synth. IMO, the use of more analogue, real, organic instruments like violins, cellos and quitars could give an extra arty twist to the sound ("art-trance" anyone?) and a more refreshing feel, free of that plastic riffage which we are used to.


The most important: Stop producing "Anthems" for the sake of producing them. The era of anthem-trance is over. Its time to make trance with more varied melodies, atmospheres and moods and not the typical "end-of-summer-anthem-nostalgia" which almost all tracks from 1997 seem to express. Its time to make happy melodies and sad melodies, angry melodies, dark melodies, enigmatic melodies, uncertain melodies, post-apocalyptic melodies, heavenly melodies , utopian melodies, nightmarish melodies, hellish melodies, epic melodies, mysterious melodies, mystical melodies, dynamic melodies, ecstatic melodies, universal melodies. There is such a vast range of human emotions, such an endless combination of musical layers and so much advanced technology, and despite that, musicians have become one-trick ponnies, pressing the same buttons and using the same tricks, tricks which are only secret and unknown to the very young of listeners (before realizing themselves that these tricks are quite old...). Music, Technology and the Human Mind are vast. Why just use the 1%?

The problem is that todays Trance is Dance. And not Trance.

its all about happy plucks, rising popularity and to sound like ASOT, with some vocals chopped up and delivered.

There are great innovative trance tracks released still.

But they are overshadowed by the 1000 of producers making the same sounds over and over again.

What i think has killed Trance, is that is purely made for DJs to play it out on the Dancefloor.

If the big DJs had stopped playing the shitty trance, people might have opened their eyes to some cooler and more innovative music.

If Armin and started playing what Lawrence or Joof are playing, we would see some change in the scene. Either by dropping popularity or more innovative music. Both being a good thing.

Re: Re: Re: How to innovate trance...?

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec I don't think that's quite true. I'm sure that a lot of these trance producers produce for emotions as well. Trance emotions are (limited to) 'banging', 'uplifting/euphoric', 'chill/balearic', etc When they start making tracks I'm sure they know they want to make an uplifting track, or a chill track, or a banging track. The problem is that they are just really unoriginal and maybe also campy

Similarly to the Detroit and Dub techno you mentioned in the other thread. Tracks from people like Joris Voorn and Vince Watson sound like they are made for the puspose of evoking a very specific type of emotions (the off-chord, moody, jazzy thing). Not to mention dub-techno stuff like Basic Channel which just evoke one emotion, this type of moody druggy feel lol. This is not a problem of Trance, this is a problem of EDM in general! Again, i'm not saying that i don't like these artists. But seriously, they do NOTHING more or NEW in comparison to current trance artists, nor they create a larger range of emotions.


Hah, this refers to that other "Emotion" thread and the conversation we had...

Re: Re: Re: How to innovate trance...?

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec I don't think that's quite true. I'm sure that a lot of these trance producers produce for emotions as well. Trance emotions are (limited to) 'banging', 'uplifting/euphoric', 'chill/balearic', etc When they start making tracks I'm sure they know they want to make an uplifting track, or a chill track, or a banging track. The problem is that they are just really unoriginal and maybe also campy

i think you misunderstood what i was trying to say. so let me try to put it another way:
don't make music knowing what it is that you are making. don't think, at all. just try to put your current feeling into the music. i mean really focus on conveying your feelings and emotions into the music you are making, forget everything else. the end result might be trance or something entirely different. who cares. at least it's better than crap made by thinking what armin would probably play in the next asot. basically what i'm trying to say is that making music should be more about what you feel, not about what kind of music you (think you) want to make.

Not to push my production, but is the following track by me innovative stuff or just formulaic KRAP?


[Quality is so so and i'm still working on it, but i wanted the wolrld to listen.]

Vibrasphere?
Ah, now it rings a bell, the track Erosion is quite brilliant and his other tracks are also quite good.
The other producer suggestions are quite good.

Yeah, i think we need to have more discovery in trance and less formula.

pretty decent track u made, you took the kick from Lostep though

quote:

Originally posted by Subtle If the big DJs had stopped playing the shitty trance, people might have opened their eyes to some cooler and more innovative music. If Armin and started playing what Lawrence or Joof are playing, we would see some change in the scene. Either by dropping popularity or more innovative music. Both being a good thing.

there are many fans of the armin type of trance, its pure a personal preference whether you want to hear "innovative" trance or not. I wonder if thats really innovative or just a less popular type of trance... i think the latter one.

I think time will tell how trance will evolve... it just goes with small steps i think.

quote:

Originally posted by Stino there are many fans of the armin type of trance, its pure a personal preference whether you want to hear "innovative" trance or not. I wonder if thats really innovative or just a less popular type of trance... i think the latter one. I think time will tell how trance will evolve... it just goes with small steps i think.

You`re an biased ASOT regular. Ur one of those evil 1000 producers who make Dance, and calls it Trance.

Trance has always been about innovation. ALWAYS.. All trance tracks from before 2002 always sounded unique and innovative.

Thats why it was so much fun, you bought a new CD and were always looking for that mindblowing new track u had never heard anything like.

And back then, it delivered.

Airwave's new album should be pretty unique.

Yeah, trance like ASOT etc... sound just like dance now. 50%+ of the track played in these shows inclued vocal that sound 90's euro dance.
My dream is that trance music become that it was between 90 and 95. In this era, that was true Trance, before stupid tune like gouryella, out of the blue and carte blanche killed this.

quote:

Originally posted by Subtle Trance has always been about innovation. ALWAYS.. All trance tracks from before 2002 always sounded unique and innovative.

Not really. Most Trance tracks always imitated one another, and this goes back to Sven Vath being in his prime in the early to mid 90s. A lot of tracks sounded the same later on regardless if they were psy, progressive, hard, or euphoric. Perhaps you were just too new to the scene to properly be exposed to the majority of track.

There's nothing wrong though with a lot of tracks showing similarities. A lot of times tunes sound better and bigger then life when they're played out live.

I actually think the problem isn't that Trance records need to slow down, but rather to be pitched up again! During Trance's first real wave between 92-95 it was fast, but not quite as fast as Happy Hardcore. Progressive House on the other hand was pretty slow.

Re: Re: How to innovate trance...?

quote:

Originally posted by skip emotion. if i made music, i'd try to base it on my emotions and not think about how it should sound etc. nowadays producers seem to think like this: "let's make a track that goes like this and sounds like this" i'd like them not to think at all, but rather try to put what they feel in to the sequencer (or whatever the fuck they use to make music) and make the tracks based on that.

+100

quote:

Originally posted by CHRles Not really. Most Trance tracks always imitated one another, and this goes back to Sven Vath being in his prime in the early to mid 90s. A lot of tracks sounded the same later on regardless if they were psy, progressive, hard, or euphoric. Perhaps you were just too new to the scene to properly be exposed to the majority of track. There's nothing wrong though with a lot of tracks showing similarities. A lot of times tunes sound better and bigger then life when they're played out live. I actually think the problem isn't that Trance records need to slow down, but rather to be pitched up again! During Trance's first real wave between 92-95 it was fast, but not quite as fast as Happy Hardcore. Progressive House on the other hand was pretty slow.

Similarities ? Ofcourse.. if there were no similarities it wouldnt be the same style.

Ive been in the scene since 1998, what happened before that.. i have little knowledge about.

But now 90% of all trance sounds pretty much excactly the same. And then u got the last 10% of tracks sounding fresh and good.

Re: Re: Re: Re: How to innovate trance...?

quote:

Originally posted by PETRAN Similarly to the Detroit and Dub techno you mentioned in the other thread. Tracks from people like Joris Voorn and Vince Watson sound like they are made for the puspose of evoking a very specific type of emotions (the off-chord, moody, jazzy thing). Not to mention dub-techno stuff like Basic Channel which just evoke one emotion, this type of moody druggy feel lol. This is not a problem of Trance, this is a problem of EDM in general! Again, i'm not saying that i don't like these artists. But seriously, they do NOTHING more or NEW in comparison to current trance artists, nor they create a larger range of emotions. Hah, this refers to that other "Emotion" thread and the conversation we had...

i have no problems with limited emotional palettes, just with unoriginality.

basic channel is like the mark rothko of dance music. i mean the limited, reduced emotional content goes hand in hand with the sonic concept.

with trance it's simply a result of not being creative.


i don't see how you can make any comparsion here.

i think the real problem here is that trance music was never meant to be dance music in the sense of a club packed with drunk people worshipping a DJ. trance was meant to be about the music and the experience of being taken to a new place by the music. the music in a modern day club context is only used to enhance the current atmosphere instead of creating a totally new one. i have seen tiesto, above and beyond, paul van dyk, paul oakenfold, and ferry corsten. not one of them except ferry played trance music. ferry played some deep intense stuff that people didn't even dance to. everybody just closed their eyes and swayed to it. that is trance. trance does not involve dancing with your partner in a sexually suggestive way nor does it involve fist pumping and jesus poses.

quote:

Originally posted by piku303 i think the real problem here is that trance music was never meant to be dance music in the sense of a club packed with drunk people worshipping a DJ. trance was meant to be about the music and the experience of being taken to a new place by the music. the music in a modern day club context is only used to enhance the current atmosphere instead of creating a totally new one. i have seen tiesto, above and beyond, paul van dyk, paul oakenfold, and ferry corsten. not one of them except ferry played trance music. ferry played some deep intense stuff that people didn't even dance to. everybody just closed their eyes and swayed to it. that is trance. trance does not involve dancing with your partner in a sexually suggestive way nor does it involve fist pumping and jesus poses.

Totally agree.

[[ LINK REMOVED ]]


don't want to derail the thread but heres a song i made recently. still in development. started out as an experiment of me making a kick from scratch in logics ultrabeat and then it evolved in to this. its somewhat in the style of vibrasphere/solar fields stuff. this is what we need to get back to. can anybody recommend more artists like this?

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