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Thought Process On Creating A Track.

I am curious how you guys put a track together, as i am struggling with finishing a track.

When i Start with a melody i usually get something like this [[ LINK REMOVED ]]


When i start out with a bass [[ LINK REMOVED ]]


When i start out with percussion [[ LINK REMOVED ]]



No matter what i do i never finish a track. I just get tired of drawing in melodies. I am going to invest in a midi keyboard soon.

Also, if any of you notice things wrong with the productions or have any feedback, it would be appreciated.

well finishing stuff is the hardest, i got loads of half done works... they just seem to not interest me anymore...

finishing takes tons of time, but sometimes i have a massive idea and finish a track faster (a month or two? i never count), i basically start out with the main part, work on the basic bass, then layer it...

then focusing on rhythm making the kick from scratch, the percs i usually take from some decent single shot sample im currently interested in (mostly the newest i have, unless im looking for something specific)

then i put some effects and stuff, work around the main build of my track, usually i then go to making an intro, then i combine the two (main and intro) adding spices to transitions along the way, then work on the sound, which could take weeks, and i would probably add a couple more sounds im messy...

Finishing tracks is a whole skill in itself really. Its just something your going to have to work at. Its a combination of putting together all the aspects of production that you worl on, and focusing them into a finished item. Some solid time spent is about the only thing.
But there are basic generic formulas for making EDM. So just think about the fact the you guna need to make about a 7 - 8 1/2 minute track, lets say. Its guna need an intro to mix into, probably a 1st drop where its guna kick in , then a main part and one great big drop, then a cresendo sort of bit, and a bit to mix out of. Get your basic ideas for the track, bassline, beat, rythym melodie etc and lay it out roughly into basic track and work on the whole thing, adding more elements, dropping stuff in and out to make it flow.
Then i would start to tidy it up and add filtersweeps and that sort of thing.
And then spend a while making a catchy main drop because the pro's are pretty dam good at drops these days! A clever drop can be the make or break of a track .
I leave my effects ie crashes, sweeps, delay bus's that sort of thing untill towards the end. Otherwise the project can start to get a bit complex too early and can be easy to loose track of what your doing.
Being able to work fast is really good. As Vortex says you loose interest in stuff but if your spending 2 months on sumtihing Its not surprising. The faster you can get something laid out and tidyed up the better really. But its a skill you have to work at. Working fast is such a combination of skills that you only guna get after heaps of time spent making music.
Me personaly I like to spend maybe a week or so max on track, on average i have worked out that i spend 25 - 30 hours all up to get a track pretty much finished. I work pretty fast and effeciently these days. When a lable sends me remix files I can knock out a track in 2 - 3 days pretty happily. I know plenty of dudes who can work faster. Of course thats not everyone. I'm shure Shpongles tracks take a bit longer to make .

quote:

Originally posted by theartfulducker Finishing tracks is a whole skill in itself really. Its just something your going to have to work at. Its a combination of putting together all the aspects of production that you worl on, and focusing them into a finished item. Some solid time spent is about the only thing. But there are basic generic formulas for making IDM. So just think about the fact the you guna need to make about a 7 - 8 1/2 minute track, lets say. Its guna need an intro to mix into, probably a 1st drop where its guna kick in , then a main part and one great big drop, then a cresendo sort of bit, and a bit to mix out of. Get your basic ideas for the track, bassline, beat, rythym melodie etc and lay it out roughly into basic track and work on the whole thing, adding more elements, dropping stuff in and out to make it flow. Then i would start to tidy it up and add filtersweeps and that sort of thing. And then spend a while making a catchy main drop because the pro's are pretty dam good at drops these days! A clever drop can be the make or break of a track . I leave my effects ie crashes, sweeps, delay bus's that sort of thing untill towards the end. Otherwise the project can start to get a bit complex too early and can be easy to loose track of what your doing. Being able to work fast is really good. As Vortex says you loose interest in stuff but if your spending 2 months on sumtihing Its not surprising. The faster you can get something laid out and tidyed up the better really. But its a skill you have to work at. Working fast is such a combination of skills that you only guna get after heaps of time spent making music. Me personaly I like to spend maybe a week or so max on track, on average i have worked out that i spend 25 - 30 hours all up to get a track pretty much finished. I work pretty fast and effeciently these days. When a lable sends me remix files I can knock out a track in 2 - 3 days pretty happily. I know plenty of dudes who can work faster. Of course thats not everyone. I'm shure Shpongles tracks take a bit longer to make .

i meant that 2 months is a short time...

It probably took me a couple of years before i started to properly finish tracks, but they wern't up to standard really. After finally getting some projects 'finished' I started to refine my process of building tracks and a couple of years later i can work prety fast. Every track you make you learn a little more, and have another trick under your belt. Its not an overnight thing.
But its easy to get stuck in the trap of buzzing out on a loop for hours, refining it and refining it .. untill your sick of it .

I find myself spending just as much time making the first 90% of a track as the last 10%

quote:

Originally posted by Subtle I find myself spending just as much time making the first 90% of a track as the last 10%

Same here..putting the finishing is hard cauz i think u the presentation of the ideas (the track) is as much important as the buildup itself

quote:

Originally posted by theartfulducker So just think about the fact the you guna need to make about a 7 - 8 1/2 minute track, lets say. Its guna need an intro to mix into, probably a 1st drop where its guna kick in , then a main part and one great big drop, then a cresendo sort of bit, and a bit to mix out of.

This is what you do if you want your track to sound like every single mainstream trance track for the past ten years.

If you don't want that, then don't do what this guy said.

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles This is what you do if you want your track to sound like every single mainstream trance track for the past ten years.

i dunno dude, there IS a club formula. when you deviate from it, epic fail ensues. it might still be a good song, it just wont be a club song. i suppose it depends what your intentions are... but imo, if it is not a club song, it is a radio edit, which has no bearing on the issue.

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Originally posted by echosystm i dunno dude, there IS a club formula.

Certainly.

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when you deviate from it, epic fail ensues. it might still be a good song, it just wont be a club song.

It's perfectly possible to make a club song without following that formula.

I can think of a dozen older trance tracks that had melodic or ambient intros or outros, for instance, and they all killed dance floors in their day. They still would today, if people played them.

quote:

This is what you do if you want your track to sound like every single mainstream trance track for the past ten years.

So yes in other words do that if you want to make a trance track.
Or i guess , being as your finding it hard enough to finish a track as it is, take note of all the generic tricks that the most popular trance producers do and try not to do any of those things! That'l really be helpfull to you! Hopefully you can reinvent the genre after so many years!
Seriously ... learn to make basic proper generic productions that sound profesional 1st of all. Dance music is very generic basically. There are just certain production techniques that work with different styles. They have been refined for years by really good producers. Of course you can do some cool different stuff and arrange a pretty original sounding piece but its still going to be based on solid basic production and arrangement techniques.
As you start get more confident with things you will start forming your own style and getting more unique.

quote:

I can think of a dozen older trance tracks that had melodic or ambient intros or outros, for instance,

Laying out a track basically with some buildups and drops etc doesn't stop you having ambient intros, or outros or nething else. I was just giving a basic idea of how you might lay a track out. To help get something finished...

Arrangements are supposed to be predictable, you want the people on the floor to know when things are going to happen.

The important thing is what you make happen for them.

I'm not saying you should just toss in new things at random left and right. I'm saying that you can still make a danceable, club-playable track without using the same intro-littledrop-build-big-breakdown formula that every fucking mainstream trance producer has been copying since at least 1999. It's not really that hard to think up ways to change the arrangement a little and still make it danceable.

- Make a ten-minute track with no breakdown. Or one where the breakdown doesn't happen until like eight minutes in. Or one with just a bunch of short drops instead of one big one. Or one that's ambient or breakbeat for the first five minutes then straight four-to-the-floor for the last five.

But it seems like practically nobody does this.

People just stick to the same "intro + littledrop + build + saw lead with low pass filter that opens up in the break" formula that's already been done thousands of times, and they're apparently unaware (or simply don't care) that hundreds of other producers are doing the exact same fucking thing as they are, just with (BOY OH BOY, here comes the creativity, guys!) slightly different notes. And the worst thing is that when somebody deviates from that formula, they'll say "that's not trance."

COME ON. Does this not strike anybody else as fucking absurd?!

quote:

Originally posted by Subtle Arrangements are supposed to be predictable, you want the people on the floor to know when things are going to happen. The important thing is what you make happen for them.

I dunno. I find it quite exciting when im expecting a song to do something but it doesnt, it kind of keeps me interested if that makes sense.

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles I'm not saying you should just toss in new things at random left and right. I'm saying that you can still make a danceable, club-playable track without using the same intro-littledrop-build-big-breakdown formula that every fucking mainstream trance producer has been copying since at least 1999. It's not really that hard to think up ways to change the arrangement a little and still make it danceable. - Make a ten-minute track with no breakdown. Or one where the breakdown doesn't happen until like eight minutes in. Or one with just a bunch of short drops instead of one big one. Or one that's ambient or breakbeat for the first five minutes then straight four-to-the-floor for the last five. But it seems like practically nobody does this. People just stick to the same "intro + littledrop + build + saw lead with low pass filter that opens up in the break" formula that's already been done thousands of times, and they're apparently unaware (or simply don't care) that hundreds of other producers are doing the exact same fucking thing as they are, just with (BOY OH BOY, here comes the creativity, guys!) slightly different notes. And the worst thing is that when somebody deviates from that formula, they'll say "that's not trance." COME ON. Does this not strike anybody else as fucking absurd?!

Vibrasphere - Autumn Lights (Oliver Prime Mix)

Many tracks does this, just not those mainly considered trance. (i consider it trance though)

Finishing a track isn't hard.

Copy paste, Filter fade in/out and so on.

Your track needs to tell a story. It needs to do something to a certain person.

That is the hardest part in music. No doubt about it.

Finishing a track...oh my...OH MY!

I have HUGE pile of melodies with bass lines + drums.
But not ONE finished song... And I mean HUGE pile!
I just seem to start creating new melodie, new bass line...
And NEVER finish a song, just creating some new short loop.

But now I am trying to get my FIRST complete track done.
And now I even did set a deadline for it, July! So first time I am really starting to notice stuff in songs that I like (how the intro goes, usually the main melody and vocals doesn't go together...).

And now I am listening my old pile of melodies, instead of just creating just another and another and another new melodies to the pile... And marking the "best" ones, deleting the ones that doesn't give anykind of rush. And after this I will select 2-3 of the "best" melodies and try to work them in to a whole song...

Trying to make a "radio" versio, so only 3-4minutes...

quote:

Originally posted by Massive84 Finishing a track isn't hard. Copy paste, Filter fade in/out and so on.

This is exactly what is wrong with today's trance.

Come up with a hook or two, then "copy paste, filter fade in / out."

That's all that trance production is to some people, and that is pitiful.

Hmmm... reading this thread I'm starting to think that the better way to do something "creative" is to don't know trance usual structure.

That's what I actually do, since I don't know its structure (I mean, I don't even understand what this means: "intro + littledrop + build + saw lead with low pass filter that opens up in the break").

When I compose something I just make it to sound in a "cool" way for me.

I dunno if I explained myself.

I think thats the best way, as otherwise you tend to just follow the same old formula, which ultimately has lead to trance tracks be boring and predictable.

quote:

Originally posted by Fernito When I compose something I just make it to sound in a "cool" way for me.

This is good. Keep doing this.

I believe the reason that most jaded ravers and clubbers still say that 1999 was the apex of trance music was because it was shortly thereafter that the epic build/break/drop became part of the formula.

That kind of arrangement is totally undanceable if it fills up an entire set, which is why you hardly ever see it in house music, breaks, D'n'B, or any of the other electronic music genres that get played in clubs. And don't infer that I hate trance - I just hate the horrific mutant mawkish schmaltz that Ferry Corsten and Rank 1 spawned.

That formula may help get your track played on ASOT, but if anything it'll make it less likely to get played in an actual club. I have to wonder if some of you have actually been to one recently to suggest that they really play that stuff in great abundance. On a typical night, maybe 1 track in every 5 will have a significant (say, 10 seconds or more) breakdown.

Having a 8-16+ Bars break here and there can be seen in about 90 % of any EDM Record. Its fundamental to create suspense by removing parts of a track to introduce it later on, also to create tension and introducing new parts. People dancing on the dancefloor needs a break from the beats.

The longer melody u have the longer break you are going to need, that is the reason techno and house doesnt have that long breakdown because they dont need to introduce a long melody line.

Trance can easily skip huge breakdown by having shorter and more repetetive melodies in it.

Wow, this got a lot of responses.

I think i agree that i need to finish my productions faster because it seems i get a few good things and fine tune them to the point i get bored with the track. I think i need to focus on the song as a whole and not each individual element.

quote:

Originally posted by Subtle Having a 8-16+ Bars break here and there can be seen in about 90 % of any EDM Record.

97.2% of all statistics are made up on the spot, and 63.8% of the remainder after careful deliberation.

quote:

The longer melody u have the longer break you are going to need, that is the reason techno and house doesnt have that long breakdown because they dont need to introduce a long melody line.

Total bullcrap. I'm sorry bud, but I can't believe you would write that. Even if the logic made any sense... house has shorter melodies than trance since when?

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