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Defending Afghanistan
Well, not really. EvilTree to defend his previous stance on the positive Canadian military campaign in Afghanistan ... I couldn't find that thread, so I'll be adding articles to this one. My point - Afghanistan is fucked up, and Canadian soldiers are dying weekly for NOTHING. Dying for more drugs to flow out of that country, more human rights abuse to carry out, closing eyes and ears to obvious torture claims and other terrible crimes, especially against women and children. AND the best part - VIOLENCE IN AFGHANISTAN IS ON THE RISE. Operation Canadian Surge, anyone?
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv...ry/Afghanistan/
War takes time out for opium windfall
In Afghanistan, spring brings calm as farmers harvest their poppies only to see renewed fighting fuelled by narco cash in summer
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KATHERINE O'NEILL AND GRAEME SMITH
From Tuesday's Globe and Mail
May 13, 2008 at 4:36 AM EDT
NEAR BAZAR-E-PANJWAI and KANDAHAR, AFGHANISTAN � The swollen green poppy bulbs are being plucked from the fields as the annual spring harvest is under way in Afghanistan's volatile and dangerous Panjwai district.
"Fifteen days," an Afghan farmer told a Canadian soldier yesterday, when asked about how long he expected it will take to clear his field. As the farmer talked, he carefully cut open a bulb the size of a walnut and scooped out the oozing sap.
In nearby fields, the harvest could be finished as early as Friday.
Canadian soldiers patrolling areas southwest of Kandahar are closely watching the calendar, as they prepare for a renewed Taliban offensive after the fields are cleared.
In nearby Kandahar, the annual start of the fighting season has become as regular as the harvest season. When the bulbs ripen on the poppy stalks, farmers hire armies of young men to work the fields. For a few weeks in late April and early May, it's difficult to find a taxi or a construction worker in the city, as every available labourer goes into the countryside. Many shops are shuttered, and the city takes on an air of sleepy anticipation.
The level of violence in Kandahar province has dropped sharply during this period of calm that comes with the harvest, as it always does in late spring. Village elders say this is partly because the young men are farming instead of fighting, but also because the Taliban feel social pressure from ordinary people who need a good opium crop to pay for the year's expenses; the insurgents would lose support if they disrupt the harvest.
As the last remnants of dark tar get scraped off the plants, however, the tension grows. City residents ask people who recently returned from the fields when the harvest will finish, trying to guess when the fighting will start.
Military officials usually describe the annual outbreak of fighting in purely economic terms, saying the end of the harvest leaves thousands of unemployed young men who don't have any financial alternative except selling themselves as hired guns to the insurgency. At the same time, however, many poor labourers find themselves flush with more money than they've seen all year, after making inflated wages four or five times higher than their salary rate in slower seasons. Some observers say it's the influx of cash into the countryside that brings a fresh supply of ammunition and supplies to the insurgents; others say it's only the summer heat that brings war, as the nights are warm enough for a band of fighters to sleep in the fields without blankets.
Whatever the reason, the escalating violence of each summer is sickeningly predictable - so predictable, in fact, that pharmacists in Kandahar city are stocking extra medicines in anticipation of higher casualties and increased sales.
Haji Agha Raheemdin, head of Pharmaceuticals Services Union of Kandahar, said he usually sells about $100,000 worth of supplies a month, but anticipates sales of $200,000 to $300,000 in the month after the harvest's end. That estimate does not include the medicine his group will donate to the city's main hospital, he said.
"This problem can't be solved by fighting," Mr. Raheemdin said. "But the fighters don't know this. Every year, the fight is bigger."
As the fighting has escalated every year, fears spread in Afghanistan last spring that the 2007 season would include a so-called "spring offensive" by the Taliban, possibly a frontal attack on a major town or city. Such an attack never happened, and NATO officials trumpeted this as a successful thwarting of a Taliban offensive.
But the insurgents claimed their new strategy called for more numerous attacks by smaller groups of fighters, and the statistics from last year's fighting season did record a spike in violence that some analysts have described as an offensive.
"We totally disagree with those who assert that the 'spring offensive' did not happen," concludes a year-end report by the Afghanistan NGO Safety Office, describing a fourfold increase in attacks from February to July, 2007. "The numbers do not lie," the report said.
This year's numbers look similar, but worse. Data collected by security consultant Sami Kovanen, of Vigilant Strategic Services Afghanistan, show a steady increase in insurgent attacks in the first 14 weeks of 2008, with every week except one recording a higher volume of incidents than the same week in the previous year. Then, in the 15th to 18th weeks, the number of attacks dips down in a lull similar to the calm before previous fighting seasons. Over all, however, VSSA had counted 226 insurgent attacks in Kandahar this year, as of May 4, compared with 167 during the same period last year, leading some analysts to predict that this fighting season will bring more violence than the last.
Military officials privately acknowledge that their own statistics reflect a similar increase in the number of insurgent attacks, but they draw different conclusions from the data. The fact that insurgents are not massing in the large battle groups seen in 2006 shows that NATO and Afghan troops are forcing them to scatter, increasing the number of incidents but lowering the insurgents' effectiveness, officials say.
A farmer, watched by an Afghan soldier, plucks swollen green poppy bulbs Monday in Panjwai district. (Katherine O�Neill/The Globe and Mail)
Afghanistan is just as stagnant as Iraq is when it comes to the possibility of total victory. These are never ending wars. In my opinion, these wars serve as an excuse to continue spending more and more money on the military. Hell, since 2001, the US military budget has more than doubled. First, they told us it would be quick. Then, they told us to be patient. Then they told us some of our rights would have to be taken away. When will it end???
yeah, let's have the taliban running afghanistan again. they were awesome administrators.
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| Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN yeah, let's have the taliban running afghanistan again. they were awesome administrators. |
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| Originally posted by Krypton Since when did you care about what goes on in Kabul administratively? |
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| Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN yeah, let's have the taliban running afghanistan again. they were awesome administrators. |
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| Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN im mocking you two one-eyed american haters. |
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| Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN yeah, let's have the taliban running afghanistan again. they were awesome administrators. |
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| Originally posted by hardcore trancer Taliban still remains in Afghanistan,and they are regrouping as we speak. |
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| Originally posted by Magnetonium AND even some Afghan warlords have formerly been Taliban sympathizers or supporters ... over the last 3 decades many of the warlords have been switching sides over and over again. Its the only way to survive, I suppose. And these same warlords are the ones who have escaped prosecution for their war crimes and abuse, too ... And we call them our "friends" |
If we hadn't taken our eye off the ball with Iraq, a lot of these problematic developments wouldn't have been as bad. The Taliban is indeed re-grouping, and NATO is ill-equipped to deal with that because resources are too limited. There are 150,000 troops in Iraq, but only 28,000 in all of Afghanistan. What I'd like to know is why we didn't wrap up the legitimate conflict before moving on to an illegitimate one.
in case anyone is forgetting, the taliban were providing refuge to an army that declared war on the united states. the US has every right to be there.
this is a country that banned sport and destroyed priceless historical monuments in the name of religion. who subjected women to the most oppressive measures.
im not quite sure why everyone thinks the country should be sweet and peachy inside 5 minutes. there are obviously issues. NATO need to pay more attention and treat this like a war instead of a peace-keeping mission.
but you go on enjoying the liberal opportunities protected for you by the evil government you constantly rail against. im sure afghanistan would have been liberalising any day now, under its own steam. little girls going to school within 5 years for sure!
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| Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov What I'd like to know is why we didn't wrap up the legitimate conflict before moving on to an illegitimate one. |
PKC the way I see it is that US fucked up once again,the situation in Afghanistan could have been much better if the US actually had focused its millitary power there instead of Iraq.
As for weather I support the US invasion ,I agree the people were suffering back in the Taliban days,but the country still remains to be poor and many are still suffering,many of the members of the current government are corrupt and they were ex Talibans from back in the days,the government of Afghanistan is another puppet show made by the US,and their president as we all know was a ex member of a oil company. I truly do feel bad for these people,it seems like they are being ingnored.
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| Originally posted by hardcore trancer PKC the way I see it is that US fucked up once again,the situation in Afghanistan could have been much better if the US actually had focused its millitary power there instead of Iraq. As for weather I support the US invasion ,I agree the people were suffering back in the Taliban days,but the country still remains to be poor and many are still suffering,many of the members of the current government are corrupt and they were ex Talibans from back in the days,the government of Afghanistan is another puppet show made by the US,and their president as we all know was a ex member of a oil company. I truly do feel bad for these people,it seems like they are being ingnored. |
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| Originally posted by Krypton I've seen a plan to have an oil pipeline built out from Tajikastan or Uzbekistan, through Afghanistan and Pakistan, to the India ocean. This route avoids China, Russia, and Iran. |
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| Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN in case anyone is forgetting, the taliban were providing refuge to an army that declared war on the united states. the US has every right to be there. this is a country that banned sport and destroyed priceless historical monuments in the name of religion. who subjected women to the most oppressive measures. im not quite sure why everyone thinks the country should be sweet and peachy inside 5 minutes. there are obviously issues. NATO need to pay more attention and treat this like a war instead of a peace-keeping mission. but you go on enjoying the liberal opportunities protected for you by the evil government you constantly rail against. im sure afghanistan would have been liberalising any day now, under its own steam. little girls going to school within 5 years for sure! see, kalashnikov understands more than you two put together. this is the question, not your irrelevant bollocks. i really respect both of you guys and enjoy reading your posts, but fuck you both piss me off sometimes. and im sure the feeling is mutual |
Things are getting better in Afghanistan by the minute. Can EvilTree once and for all defend the Canadian mission in that country and at the same time say positive results are happening in Afghanistan? Because now it seems like all the prisoners Canadian troops have captured have escaped ...
http://www.latimes.com/news/printed...0,1433939.story
quote:
Taliban attack on Kandahar prison frees 1,000
Afghanistan officials say those who fled after a bomb blew open the gate include criminals as well as about 380 Taliban insurgents.
By M. Karim Faiez and Henry Chu, Special to The Times
June 14, 2008
KABUL, AFGHANISTAN -- Taliban insurgents mounted a well-coordinated attack Friday on a southern Afghan prison, allowing more than 1,000 prisoners, including hundreds of militants, to escape, authorities said.
A huge truck bomb blew open the front gate of the prison about 9 p.m. in Kandahar, the spiritual cradle of the Taliban movement. A suicide bomber also struck the back of the facility, the Associated Press reported.
Attackers then streamed into the prison and battled police for about 30 minutes, resulting in the deaths of some inmates and guards, according to news agencies and a police officer in Kandahar who was reached by telephone. The militants also fired rockets at the prison, streaking the nighttime sky with light.
Among the more than 1,000 prisoners who escaped were common criminals as well as about 380 Taliban insurgents, said Wali Karzai, president of Kandahar's provincial council.
This morning, the prison was surrounded by police.
Militants being held at the prison included both rank-and-file fighters and commanders, whose escape may aggravate the difficulty North Atlantic Treaty Organization and Afghan forces have had in securing the insurgency-ridden south and east of the country.
"There is no one left," Karzai said after the jailbreak.
Karzai is a brother of Afghan President Hamid Karzai, who was in Paris this week seeking to collect more than $20 billion in pledged aid from donor nations. He was supported in his efforts by First Lady Laura Bush, who declared that Afghanistan had "reached a decisive moment" in its history, 6 1/2 years after U.S.-led forces ousted the Taliban from power.
The country is facing an emboldened insurgency, growing unrest over rising food prices, endemic corruption and public anger that billions of dollars in foreign aid have brought little improvement to the lives of many Afghans.
For the 60,000 foreign troops deployed here, life has also become more dangerous because of roadside bombs and suicide attacks.
The dramatic prison assault was the latest in a string of high-profile insurgent attacks that show the Taliban is capable of meticulously planned operations as well as quick-hit tactics.
In January, a group of militants blasted its way past heavy security at Afghanistan's only luxury hotel, killing several people.
In April, insurgents managed to mount an assassination attempt on the president at a public parade in Kabul, smuggling weapons into a building near the parade ground despite days of heightened security throughout the capital. Karzai was hustled away, as were other dignitaries at the event, including the U.S. and British ambassadors.
The mass prisoner escape is a blow to Afghanistan's fledgling police force, which since last year had begun assuming responsibility for more captured Taliban militants under an agreement to take them out of the custody of foreign forces.
Last month, about 200 Taliban suspects at the Kandahar prison ended a weeklong hunger strike after meeting a parliamentary delegation that promised to review the cases.
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| Originally posted by Magnetonium Things are getting better in Afghanistan by the minute. Can EvilTree once and for all defend the Canadian mission in that country and at the same time say positive results are happening in Afghanistan? Because now it seems like all the prisoners Canadian troops have captured have escaped ... http://www.latimes.com/news/printed...0,1433939.story |
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| Originally posted by hardcore trancer Taliban still remains in Afghanistan,and they are regrouping as we speak. |
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Taliban seize Afghan villages Taliban fighters have taken control of eight villages in Arghandab district in Afghanistan, and have said they plan to march towards Kandahar city. About 500 fighters are said to be involved in the ongoing Taliban offensive, which got under way on Monday, Al Jazeera has learnt. Arghandab district lies 30km north of Kandahar city. Afghan and US-led forces in Afghanistan are said to be preparing to repulse the offensive. Al Jazeera's Hashem Ahelbarra, reporting from Kandahar, said that hundreds of Taliban fighters are taking up positions in the area and taking over nearby villages. "Sources from the Afghan army say that unless they get support from the Afghan national and international coalition forces, they won't be able to launch any counterattack," he said. "If Arghandab is taken over by the Taliban, it will mean a significant shift in power, and people are concerned that this will be a step forward for the Taliban towards Kandahar." |
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| Originally posted by Fir3start3r Before you blame the Canadians for this, lets remember that these prisoners were under the watch of the Afghani police and NOT the Canadians... |
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| Originally posted by Magnetonium I just think that our Canadian boys are dying for absolutely NOTHING. |
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| Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN self-determination for women is "nothing" ?? |
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| Originally posted by Magnetonium And how many Afghan women you think have this "self-determination" that you're talking about? |
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| Originally posted by Magnetonium They are only self-determining at the expense of Canadian and international troops getting killed every month, protecting puppet regime. There's no peace and stability in Afghanistan and any democratic developments in there right now are only temporary. Soviets thought too that they were doing well in early 1980s. |
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| Originally posted by Magnetonium Besides, abuse of women in Afghanistan is still rampant. Whats worse, is that young women, 13 and under, are still given away to arranged marriages to old men. Schools are continuously demolished. Its not just the Taliban, but the religious Muslims who feel threatened. Self-determined women are far few in Afghanistan. There was a very good article on that last month but I dont recall where I read it. |
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| Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN more than during the reign of the taliban. |
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that's the price that is paid by those that serve something greater than themselves. there is no conscription, these people are professional soldiers and this is what they signed up for. mourning their loss by insulting their legacy doesn't seem right to me. |
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i didn't say that it was perfect. and of course ancient barriers havent been broken in a matter of a few years; but women can now work and go to school, 2 measurements of self determination in my book. and school are also constantly being built, so its a matter of winning the hearts and minds, and protecting those they have won over. i think its rather unrealistic to expect afghanis to embrace western democracy immediately. these things take take and i think they are something worth fighting for. |
Like I said before...
The invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan have nothing to do with freedom or so-called liberation. It has everything to do with securing a strategic position in energy supplies. It's all about Iraq's oil reserves and Afghanistan's position geographically in the region for pipelines.
Also notice how the opium crops grew exponentially after 2001. And yet we claim to be fighting this "War on Drugs". War on Drugs my ass...
I'm going off on a tangent, but I also think narcotics are purposefully outlawed so as to maintain the black market status of this sector, and continue the subjugation of the lower classes of society. An otherwise sober lower class would be a threat to any capitalist government which wants to prevent any revolutions. It's a distraction from the world at large.
/tangent
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