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Bomb goes off in UK restaurant

Sounds like a Islamic terrorist attack gone wrong (the only person injured was the bomber himself)

Scary thing is that this guy is white, British born, but appears to have been brainwashed into converting to some warped version of Islam...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/7417349.stm

That really sucks, any comments from britih intelligence yet? Because I can't find anything other than a mention of them "being on the case"

quote:

British police search home of 'vulnerable' Muslim convert who set off bomb in restaurant The Associated Press Friday, May 23, 2008 LONDON: Anti-terrorist police on Friday searched an apartment in southwest England to try to determine what motivated a young Muslim convert with a history of mental illness to walk into a busy restaurant with two bombs. Suspected bomber Nicky Reilly was the only person injured in the blast, but experts and authorities fear he represents a worrying trend: vulnerable and isolated individuals radicalized through the Internet and exploited by militants. Police forensic teams removed bags full of evidence from the second-floor apartment in Plymouth where Reilly lived with his mother and younger brother. A military bomb-disposal team arrived at the scene as the search continued. Police later arrested a man in Plymouth in connection with the explosion. A second man also was being questioned but was not under arrest. Reilly, 22, was in a hospital under armed guard and being treated for facial injuries after a device he was carrying blew up Thursday in a bathroom at Giraffe, a popular family restaurant in Exeter, 180 miles (290 kilometers) southwest of London and about 40 miles (60 kilometers) from his home. Another explosive device was found nearby and disarmed by bomb-disposal experts. Britain's Press Association news agency cited police sources as saying the devices were "viable" and made from sodium hydroxide, kerosene, strips of aluminum foil and nails. Police late Thursday took the unusual step of naming Reilly, who has not been charged, and releasing his photo. Devon and Cornwall Police said Reilly had been manipulated, and appealed for help tracking his movements. "We believe that despite his weak and vulnerable state, he was preyed upon, radicalized and taken advantage of," Deputy Chief Constable Tony Melville told reporters. Police said the incident did not appear to be part of a wider plot but said the investigation was continuing. London police sent a team of counterterrorism officers to provide support. The British Broadcasting Corp. reported that the country's domestic intelligence service, MI5, also was on the case. Reilly's neighbors described him as a quiet, isolated man who spent much of his time indoors. A local Muslim leader said he did not know the suspect. Scott Allen, 19, who lives in the apartment below Reilly's in Plymouth, said the young man was introverted and rarely spoke. "I would say they picked on him because of his vulnerability," Allen said. "He had always been a follower and had always wanted friends." Another neighbor, 17-year-old Ali Turner, said Reilly's computer screensaver was an image of the burning World Trade Center in New York. Turner said Reilly has recently changed his name to Mohammed Rasheed, "but English people were still allowed to call him Nicky." Syed Lutfur Rahman, chairman of Plymouth's Islamic Center, said police called to offer the center protection in case of a backlash against local Muslims. They also asked him if he knew Reilly. "I said I didn't know him. I don't know if he's been to the center," Rahman said. "But I don't recognize him." Terrorism-related arrests have become frequent in Britain since the Sept. 11 attacks and the July 2005 suicide bombings by four British Muslims that killed 52 commuters in London. Home Secretary Jacqui Smith said last month that authorities were monitoring 2,000 suspects and 30 active plots. But Exeter — population 120,000, a county known for its beaches and clotted cream — seems an unlikely target. The largely rural southwest is one of England's quietest corners, although animal-rights militants have detonated a series of small bombs in the region over the last quarter century. On Friday, a 19-year-old Muslim convert from Bristol, also in southwest England, appeared at London's Central Criminal Court, charged with intending to commit a terrorist act using an improvised explosive device. Police say Andrew Philip Michael Ibrahim, arrested last month, was found with a peroxide-based explosive, along with ball bearings, air gun pellets, nails, screws, circuitry, batteries and electric bulb filaments. He is due to stand trial in January. Both Ibrahim and Reilly appeared to have been radicalized very quickly, said Garry Hindle, a terrorism expert at the Royal United Services Institute, a military think tank. "The rapid radicalization is something of concern, the speed with which people can be converted to violent acts," Hindle said. "Police have pointed to this being something that can happen in a matter of weeks. "It points to the fear that there is a lot of use of the Internet — people can almost become self-radicalized," he said. "If that is what has happened in Bristol or in Exeter, it is very worrying."

Source: The The International Herald Tribune (Global Edition of NYTimes)

>link<

they do it everywhere else. f**k it, why not Britain.

Sounds like an MI5 job to me, to fucking ridiculous for anyone else to pull off.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Sounds like an MI5 job to me

ok sure, but what would be their point?

wouldn't they at least do some sort of cost/risk analysis if they're gonna be that ridiculous?

when he has his day in court do you think the entire UK Justice System would be on the take as well?

just sayin...

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo ok sure, but what would be their point? wouldn't they at least do some sort of cost/risk analysis if they're gonna be that ridiculous?

I don't know, maybe to propagate more baseless fear of a particular demographic group or ideological perspective. Obviously, I can't say one way or another what actually happened... but why exactly would anyone living in the UK, a white convert of all people, want to pointlessly blow himself up? People generally don't make such desperate attempts to accomplish absolutely nothing... unless they're being persecuted... which isn't exactly the case here. The guy was mentally handicapped. Sounds more like a possible intelligence op experiment than anything else. If you can get a response form someone as [relatively] level headed as George like:

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Sounds like a Islamic terrorist attack gone wrong (the only person injured was the bomber himself) Scary thing is that this guy is white, British born, but appears to have been brainwashed into converting to some warped version of Islam...

it's not hard to imagine the paranoia, however subtle, it would stir up. Granted nobody but the bomber was killed, so it's not going to generate a totally irrational response from the general populace like 9-11 did, but it's not going to go unnoticed eigther and will certainly add to whatever the current level of resentment and distrust exists.

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo when he has his day in court do you think the entire UK Justice System would be on the take as well? just sayin...

I don't see how the consensus in a compromised system is of any relevance.

Domestic terrorism = loss of liberty and increased authoritarian legislation and practices. It's not a hard concept to grasp, and unfortunately already a reality... especially in the US. Anti-terror legislation = bullshit excuse to undermine democratic values and establish authoritarian norms. I've never been one to fall for BS propaganda regarding attrocities and injustices carried out abroad, why should I belive it when it's done domesticaly? Sorry, I'm not fond of being so incredibly naive or gulible.

now there's a surprise in the PDD! an inside job accusation without a shred of evidence to support it. never fails to disappoint.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN now there's a surprise in the PDD! an inside job accusation without a shred of evidence to support it. never fails to disappoint.

You must not understand the concept of critical thinking. I didn't make an accusastion, I expressed my skepticism. Some people have unwaivering faith in the system and it's general supposed functionality, despite clear corruption, abuse of power, or positions contrary to it's ideolical basis. Here's a few facts I generally don't forget to consider when formulating an opinion:

1. Intelligence agencies and goverments have a documented history of conducting false flag terrorism.
   
2. The state is interested in maintaining status quo or increasing their sphere of influence, not serving public interest.
   
3. The mainstrema corporate media has a history of silence on important foreign and domestic policy issues, not to metion a documented history of deliberately dispending disinformation and misleading (aka lying).
   
4. The "enemy populace" or demographic has ALWAYS, with out exceptions, been demonized via media propaganda, especially during times of War or political / social change.
   
5. The amount of evidence required to file a law suit will generally not be found, and for good reason. It will be eigther destroyed or classified.
   

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z I don't know, maybe to propagate more baseless fear of a particular demographic group or ideological perspective.

again, at what cost and at what risk? this is the same country that dealt with over 100 people dead and scores wounded from a multi-hit transportation bombing not too long ago. unless you believe that incident was false-flag, a target like this makes absolutely no sense.

quote:

but why exactly would anyone living in the UK, a white convert of all people, want to pointlessly blow himself up?

what drives anyone to murder people? that said, i really think demagraghics is irrelevant even in the context youre talking about.

he didn't mean to blow himself up. these devices were not attached to him. he was planting one (not a turd but there's is a joke there somewhere) in a bathroom. there were other similar devices found elsewhere that were not planted. i hate repeating this, but what would be the motive for doing it this way if it were false-flag?

quote:

I don't see how the consensus in a compromised system is of any relevance.

so now the whole system is false? i really don't want to sound like a dick but how far down the rabbit hole are you willing to go with this? and don't say youre gonna "take the blue pill" because if i recall the UK still has a free and open criminal courts system.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Sorry, I'm not fond of being so incredibly naive or gulible.

ok, but don't you think you do that at the risk of willfull and potentially self defeating disregard for logic?

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo ok, but don't you think you do that at the risk of willfull and potentially self defeating disregard for logic?

Is it illogical to think outside the box?

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Is it illogical to think outside the box?

nope. but if being outside the box is more than just an alternative way to view your world then you can most certainly set yourself up for being wrong. it goes both ways. kinda like LazFX

for instance. you stated "Domestic terrorism = loss of liberty and increased authoritarian legislation and practices. It's not a hard concept to grasp" and so on. sure, it's a concept. just a concept. it's when you begin implementing it as a construct it becomes an entirely different ballgame.

you can't ignore the logic building the construct despite being "outside the box" if you care about your argument holding water.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z You must not understand the concept of critical thinking.

haha, you mean the constant attraction to ideas that have no evidence to support them = critical thinking?? i must first consider the highly unlikely theory devoid of evidence before looking at what the facts point at?

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Can you give me a good reason to not be skeptical of lying and murderous instituions?

give me a good reason to suspect MI5 in this case. your gut instinct isnt enough for me im afraid.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z # The amount of evidence required to file a law suit will generally not be found, and for good reason. It will be eigther destroyed or classified.

in other words the absence of evidence is, um, actually evidence of evil government puppet masters?

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN haha, you mean the constant attraction to ideas that have no evidence to support them = critical thinking?? i must first consider the highly unlikely theory devoid of evidence before looking at what the facts point at?

I gave you "evidence" or reasons rather as to why I'm skeptical... if you choose to ignore or obfuscate it... oh well, that's just too bad then. Part of critical thinking is not restricting yourself to any paradigms, suspending biases and assumptions (especially ones that directly contradict the lessons of history), and avoiding limitations any framework (wheather real or conttrived) imposes on thought. So it's illogical or irrational of me to be skeptical of claims coming from instituions and / or organizations that have a track record of lack of transparency, deception, coersion of domestic populations, unprovoked military agression, and false flag terrorism? I think their lack of credibility has ample historical evidence and reason to back it up.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN give me a good reason to suspect MI5 in this case. your gut instinct isnt enough for me im afraid.

Read above. The lesson of history are not my gut instinct. There's a word of a difference between accusations and suspecion. Oddly enough, expressing that predictabley generates a juvenile reponse from you. Q was actually trying to have a discussion with me, as opposed to you who trolls "anti-establishment" positions everywhere. It's really beggining to get old... and it doesn't exactly boost your credibility eigther.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN in other words the absence of evidence is, um, actually evidence of evil government puppet masters?

No, but feel free to twist my words.

There, I answered all your questions. Oddly enough you didn't address a thing I said or answer any of my questions. Obfuscating the points I made by failing to address them and twist the rest ridiculously out of context to me sounds like that special list of "ten commandments" you have is infact your bible . Try addressing what I say for once, the entire argument preferably if you wish to point out flaws in it or my reasoning. Not selective tid bits you can misrepresent.

BTW, I'm intersted if you can back up your points btw:

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN haha, you mean the constant attraction to ideas that have no evidence to support them = critical thinking?? i must first consider the highly unlikely theory devoid of evidence before looking at what the facts point at?

Make a list of different perspectives I have on various issues and then please show me how much of it falls in the category of "constant attraction to ideas that have no evidence to support them." And for God's sake, learn how to differentiate between evidence and proof. You say you've studied logic formally in college, you must have been a terrible at it as you don't know the difference between the two terms.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN give me a good reason to suspect MI5 in this case. your gut instinct isnt enough for me im afraid.

LOL, I just reread the portion of my post you were responding to. LOL, thanks... I haven't laughed that hard in a while:

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Can you give me a good reason to not be skeptical of lying and murderous instituions?

To which your response was:

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN give me a good reason to suspect MI5 in this case. your gut instinct isnt enough for me im afraid.

You acknowledged how these instituions have historically operated, yet that's not reason enough to suspect them of displaying similar behaviour? LOL, alright. I guess next time you know someone's a rapist and murderer, you should be comfortable with them taking your friend on a date.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z You acknowledged how these instituions have historically operated, yet that's not reason enough to suspect them of displaying similar behaviour? LOL, alright. I guess next time you know someone's a rapist and murderer, you should be comfortable with them taking your friend on a date.

and we are aware of the "loose Screw" mentality that islamists possesses as well.
What is more likely Z. a Muslim blowing him/herself up or the government with all of its loose lips just doing it to keep control of people that ONLY you say is their goal??

quote:

Originally posted by LazFX and we are aware of the "loose Screw" mentality that islamists possesses as well.

Interesting, I don't remember that being specfic to any one brand of religious fanatics. Last time I checked, the evil, violent and descructive influence of organized religion was dwarfed by the state in conjuction with intelligence agencies.

quote:

Originally posted by LazFX What is more likely Z. a Muslim blowing him/herself up or the government with all of its loose lips just doing it to keep control of people that ONLY you say is their goal??

The latter. Althought the former is also possible, but not very likely.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z The latter.

in the UK? maybe, but why do you think thats not so in predominantly Muslim countries?

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo in the UK? maybe, but why do you think thats not so in predominantly Muslim countries?

Predominantly Muslim countires are not an exception. Just take a look at Pakistan or Saudi Arabia. Plus, most of them already live in western backed or created tyrannies. There's not much need to push in new legislation, not to mention in most third world nations the law being ignored or violated isn't exactly a anamoly. You have no civil liberties there, unless you belong to the an elite upper class... which also generally means you're not subject to legal action being taken against you, provided you don't step out of line. Over there though, it's genreally one political faction using it to take down another.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Interesting, I don't remember that being specfic to any one brand of religious fanatics. Last time I checked, the evil, violent and descructive influence of organized religion was dwarfed by the state in conjuction with intelligence agencies.

true and you are correct, there has been instances??
but why is it that the same fever is not used when addressing the ETA or the IRA? If it has some sort of islamic undertone, its always the government..

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z I don't know, maybe to propagate more baseless fear of a particular demographic group

White people? Seems like a pretty poor choice of perpetrator.

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov White people? Seems like a pretty poor choice of perpetrator.

No, more like desert dweller and anyone coverting to their desert tales. Are you being serious or just taking the piss?

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z No, more like desert dweller and anyone coverting to their desert tales. Are you being serious or just taking the piss?

You really think that if MI5 wanted to foster fear of Arab Muslims, they'd choose a white guy from Britain to carry out a failed bombing?

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov You really think that if MI5 wanted to foster fear of Arab Muslims, they'd choose a white guy from Britain to carry out a failed bombing?

Last time I checked not all Muslims are Arab. And that's a ridiculous over simplification of (only part) of what I said. Did you miss the part about "desert tales" ?

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